This thread is related to my own project, Avalanche, but, I think, goes way beyond that. It comes from my own reflexion about gaming, especially RPG. I hope it fits into game design. And, first of all, I don't say I have the answer, I'm just suggesting an axe of reflexion.

Prelude
I believe the 'forge' attitude toward rpg is to design mechanics, and the common thougth is that designing stories is easy and designing rules hard. So, I guess, I'll be bullied around for what I'm saying. Don't hesitate.
I've been wandering around many forums for the last year and something strikes me. They are so many systems, so many mechanics available in the indie field. And I'm talking about original, creative ones. Great ideas, great setting, great rules defined for a given purpose. That said, they almost come in the same format. Some rules, characters sheet, a little bit of background and some scenarios, maybe (one or two). What I see, always, in any forum, including this one, is the needs for content (well, maybe not the majority of partcipants, especially at the forge, but always some).
When it comes to campaign, somehow, in the last (what, ten ?) years, the same names seems to come by : the masks and the ennemy inside (I surely forgot some).
Last thing about what I'm talking. I find it wonderful that some games, like Capes, found a new way to create stories. Alas (at least for me), it's about GM less games. So, what I'll talking about is a game with a DM.

Influence
Our hobby had many influences. We should be proud of it. Althougth it might not be as popular as we wish, it influenced video games, CCG, tabletop games, wargames, LARP (which, I agree, may not seem as a 'so different product.') But what did we brougth them ? Mechanics. Diablo, sacred, Dungeon siege, world of wracraft (and many others) uses mechanics based on our hobby. Seems great to me. But their story sucks. Is that our hobby, only about progression ? Take Magic, for example, some mechanics, a fantasy world... But don't tell me the story behind is great !! I always thougth that our main trade as rpgs players was telling stories. Well, maybe I'm wrong (surely for the dungeon crawler out there). How come we do not influence this game by our way to tell a story ? I'd like to see a great rpg video game who sells a great, non linear story. That would be fun, no ?
If I consider my main hobby as telling stories (even building it with my players, no problems with that), I think this activity is very different from reading a book or playing a video game, for that reason.

Designing stories and background
We've come to design mechanics very different from the 'birth' of role playing. Easier, meant to manage some kind of specific play, not based only on progression and I think it's great. But how come is it that stories and background looks alike ? The same 1000 (or 10 for that matters) pages of names, races, towns... The content is quite different, worlds are more creative, but still, they're developped the same way. All scenarios (almost) are chapters based. The same old, linear format. But if my main trade is designing stories, do I need a tool for that, just as I need some specific mechanics if I want to play ? How come it has not evolved ? One thing that makes me laugh : a game of throne. Great books from a great author. Now, they're trying to sell us the rpg game for it. Two formats : 45 euros for d20 system, 90 for dedicated system. What is more difficult to produce : the novels or the game ? What do I need more if I want to play : the novel or this one thousand pages hard cover book (which might be useful to kill bugs) ?
How come we haven't designed something for our own purpose, telling stories ? Aren't we the best at doing that ?

Bringing up new players
Go over the internet, find a free scenario in pdf format (quite easy) and show it to someone who doesn't know rpgs. Will they go further than page page 3 ? The way scenarios are written is mostly arsh, boring. Sure, it serves a need, but couldn't it serve it and still be fun to read. What if someone comes to a scenario, enjoys his reading and says 'wow, this is meant to be played'. Wouldn't that bring new players ? If a great fantasy writter was to write a novel designed for the rpg, designed to be told, wouldn't that helps us bring new players ? That said, it won't be me, I know it by now, I don't have that skill. But, to bring authors to write for our hobby, I think we have to find a new way to design our scenarios/background.

Last note
I know I'll be send to hell for that post, I'm ready for it. That said, I only wish to see my hobby to get more popular. Because it needs to socialize, it needs to be creative... it needs some work. Which is quite rare in our society today.
As you can guess, my own personal project is about designing a tool to manage story (thougth the prupose of this thread).
You can find my theory here : http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17553.0
And the practice there : http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=18006.0

Hi!
  Well, I think you have the right idea, but you are not aplying it well. The idea that an RPG is a way to telll a story is exactly accurate in my estimation. But that does not mean that the RPG Designer tells a story and the players play their parts.
  It's a thin line. Tell too much story, make the game too much about a story YOU are trying to tell and the players are not allowed creativity and there is no replay value. Tell too little story and you have a plain jane generic background.
  The reality is that the narrative story told within the rulebook is a design choice. The more you impose your own story on potential players, the shorter run the campaigns will be. The less that is detailed and enumerated, the more the GM has to make up and explore with the players.
  I don't want to be rude, but I think your analysis has been superficial. Even in one of the most vanilla games in history, GURPS, there has been an emphasis on story, look at Transhuman and Banestrom. these are very precise and detailed settings with a story behind the way the game world is now.
  Quite honestly, it is my opinion that if you push the story too far, you cross over into another medium, novels.

Hi Pells (did you already say your real name?),

I'm not sure what you mean? For example:

I'd like to see a great rpg video game who sells a great, non linear story.

pells, I have a very similar concern but I'm not really sure how to address it!

Like everyone else here, I'm developing a game (it's called Affinity) and as it has been progressing I made a choice to remove as much of the setting from it as possible. Over the last day or two, I've begun wondering if that is the right idea.

You're talking about more than setting though - I get that. It's more about the writing of "modules". That was even further removed from what I had intended, but for a great game it's probably necessary!

The problem is, as a storyteller I prefer to design my own stories - thus the split of system and setting.

So how do I help storytellers design great stories? And how do I write great stories? I think I used too, but more recently I have focussed so much on mechanics that the stories have suffered (though only slightly).

I think the split of character / system / setting / situation / colour has to be a key here. I'll be working from that ... it'll just require as much creative thinking as the system has. Which is a ton of it.

You definitely have a really good point. Any ideas for a solution? ^_^

I personally think the split between setting and system can be essential in several areas, but there has to be some connection. Mechanics aren't great by themselves, it does take something to bring out the best in even them.
Fastlane is a perfect example of mechanics being influanced by the setting. A game about living fast, dying young to leave a good lookin corpse, makes most of its randomized decisions based on a spin of the roulette wheel.
My Imp Game is all about failure, not success, which is emphasized by the fact the players are worthless imps, not ubercool warriors of somekind; the mechanics, which lean heavily against the players, were designed around the setting in mind.
The difference is neither game takes the time to lay out the specific geography  and history. Thats a lot of work and hems players into a corner: play my game using this, this or this, or don't play at all! IE Star Wars, Lucas never sat down and defined the complete universe: it didn't exist until after he had filmed and written it. That let him drop people and places conviently enough close together without trying to seem all too contrived (Wait a second...that planet is supposed to be right near the core! How'd they jump from there to the outer rim in only X hours?!)
I wouldn't say there is a NEED for content, rather there is a concious lack of forcing content on players. For the most part, I won't force players of my game to learn a shite load of nonsensical background histories just to bean each other over the head with a frying pan. Vincent Baker, on the other hand, needs to inform a number of people about the Morman ways and traditions for Dogs in the Vineyard. It all depends on what you want, providing what players need, and letting them do the rest of the work. An alternative to whats been done is to develop seperate books of content for those who want it; I've seen that done indie as well. The basic system gives the players everything they need, but if you pick up Book X you can play in the authors world instead of your own.

You are talking about two things: Setting/background and story/scenario. On setting/background: I have been thinking about how important that is to an RPG. We’ve got tons of theory here on the Forge about how mechanics work, but there is almost nothing on how setting works. Why is that?

I would greatly appreciate new approaches to designing and presenting setting. Personally, I’m not interested in another heavily detailed setting which makes me wonder: Is this thing supposed to be played, or just read? I’d rather see settings that, with every ounce, facilitate play. It’s always good if it’s fun to read, too, but as my time is precious these days, I’m glad for every page I don’t have to read.

Regarding story/scenario: Clearly the linear plot adventure so common with many RPGs is unsuitable to forge-style games featuring distributed authoring or at least heavily player-driven play.

I’ve been wondering a lot about designing scenarios for BARBAREN!. You could do it with  player characters ready made, including relationships, goals and all, but personally, I don’t like that. Someone telling me which role to play—this is not an assessment center, or is it? So no pre-generated player characters. I’m thinking about NPCs, interesting situations and perspectives, about suggested conflicts and relationships, about possible future events. That kind of stuff.

Hey Pells, why don’t you tell us some more about your project? How are you approaching the design and presentation of background and scenarios with Avalanche?

- Frank

How much of the Setting/Background material that we get is useless for play in most content books? I played a lot of Mechwarrior, which has reams and reams and reams of setting/background material, the history of this, that and the other. Yet, it took the writers of that game a long time to write something that sold the essence of that setting to me, I think it was one of their later supplements, with the simple line: "Imagine a universe where everyone, in some way, either directly or indirectly, has had their lives strongly altered by endemic warfare" (crude paraphrase, can't remember which book). The rest is just window-dressing. The important setting info was tied into the GMing section advice part of the game, not in the game-fiction part. Not what this setting was, but how it should a particular setting should be evoked during gameplay.

I know the RPG theory forum is now inactive, but I want to echo Frank's question - where is the theory of practical and useful setting design? From the point of view of a GM coming up with specific scenarios (usually moulded around the players), it's fairly well-trodden ground, but from the point of view of game design? Pells, I have read your theory links on this, but the main thing I am deciphering is that the module of the game is the setting. I am pretty sure I have misunderstood something there. But nonetheless, how does it apply in Avalance?

I've tried to respond to this once, and realized I wasn't sure I knew what I wanted to say. Let me try again.

On Setting:
I used to be heavily focused on the setting for my FRPG. I'm still really fond of it, even moreso since I've made a few changes. But it took Mike Holmes telling me in the most brutal form of kindness he could to make me realize; My setting isn't all that great. It's not going to take the Fantasy world by storm. I'm this guy with this game and this setting, doing it all in my spare time, and my competitors are Eberron, Talislanta, Harn and Glorantha. These settings have years and years of professional effort behind them, crap-loads of actual play and player criticism to focus them into something good. I'm never, ever going to compete with that.

And even more importantly, neither I nor these big dogs are going to compete with Gaming Group X's homebrew setting that they've invested so much time into. Maybe that little homebrew setting is a hodgepodge piece of crap, or maybe it's an undiscovered masterpiece.The point is, People are going to take what elements of your setting they want, or scrap the whole deal, so it's best not to break your back on something most people will take or leave. If you've got some really good, really gripping setting ideas, then by all means, share them. But don't be heartbroken (like I was every time people weren't interested) when people just nod, smile, and maybe take a few of your better ideas for their personal use.

On Scenario:
One of the primary themes in game design here at the Forge is increased player control, sometimes to the point where the GM has less control, or there isn't a GM at all. As a part of that, you really can't pre-script out scenarios, or modules for the players to slog through. It is a valid form of gaming, but it's not one that's particularly emphasized in the game designs here at the Forge. The best you can do is have a few situations where anything can happen to drop your characters into, but having any sort of preconceived notion on the outcome may end up ruining your fun when the players do something totally different, or ruining their fun when you keep forcing them back on track. Every module or pre-published adventure I've ever read or been run-through has either had copious advice on reining your players in and keeping them on the story track, or has totally disallowed any option that wasn't presented in the module. If you've ever played any Living D&D games, you've probably seen the latter.

The fact of the matter is, we* could write modules for our games, but with the influence on player control of the story direction, the only thing these modules could really have is a situation with enough information to allow the GM to react to the players decisions; Things like prices, statted NPCs, locations and maps, and maybe a few Bang-style events that the GM could drop in to keep things moving. This still puts a lot of the work of deciding what happens when the PCs do different things into the GMs hands. Problem here is, most GMs who are cool with that don't buy modules. GMs who frequently buy modules are generally looking to do as little work as possible, just run them through the module, and hope it's good and fun. At least, that's been my experience, both as a GM and as a player.

All of that said, I agree that we could use a little more in the way of settings tailored to specific games. One of the great things about this community though is that many, though probably not all, of the designers are willing to authorize fan-published "mini-supplements". See Sorcerer with Charnel Gods being a prime example. Other games have lots of setting that's implied strongly by the rules themselves, like Burning Wheel, Dogs in the Vineyard, and The Riddle of Steel. Each one of them could be played in alternate settings that what is published, but would still lend that setting their own unique flavor, just due to the nature of the mechanics.

* all uses of 'we' refers to game designers who tend to put a lot of story power into the players' hands; This is common, but by no means universal, so if you feel that my statements don't apply to you, then they probably don't.

Focus this discussion on Avalanche, please.

It's a great discussion, but we really need to have a shared anchor in order to help one another understand our points.

Best,
Ron

Well, thanks for the input... many things out there. I'll try to stick to the essential. By the way, my name is Sébastien.

Content vs container

  It's a thin line. Tell too much story, make the game too much about a story YOU are trying to tell and the players are not allowed creativity and there is no replay value. Tell too little story and you have a plain jane generic background.
  The reality is that the narrative story told within the rulebook is a design choice. The more you impose your own story on potential players, the shorter run the campaigns will be. The less that is detailed and enumerated, the more the GM has to make up and explore with the players.

Quite honestly, it is my opinion that if you push the story too far, you cross over into another medium, novels

If you as a player are choosing where the story goes, then it'd depend on you whether the story turns out to be great or not, wouldn't it?
Surely you either have a fixed story which is great, or a non linear story, but it's quality depends on your input?

The difference is neither game takes the time to lay out the specific geography  and history. Thats a lot of work and hems players into a corner: play my game using this, this or this, or don't play at all!

I wouldn't say there is a NEED for content, rather there is a concious lack of forcing content on players

Personally, I’m not interested in another heavily detailed setting which makes me wonder: Is this thing supposed to be played, or just read? I’d rather see settings that, with every ounce, facilitate play. It’s always good if it’s fun to read, too, but as my time is precious these days, I’m glad for every page I don’t have to read.

I’m thinking about NPCs, interesting situations and perspectives, about suggested conflicts and relationships, about possible future events. That kind of stuff.

Pells, I have read your theory links on this, but the main thing I am deciphering is that the module of the game is the setting. I am pretty sure I have misunderstood something there.

It is a valid form of gaming, but it's not one that's particularly emphasized in the game designs here at the Forge.

These settings have years and years of professional effort behind them, crap-loads of actual play and player criticism to focus them into something good. I'm never, ever going to compete with that.

And even more importantly, neither I nor these big dogs are going to compete with Gaming Group X's homebrew setting that they've invested so much time into.

Every module or pre-published adventure I've ever read or been run-through has either had copious advice on reining your players in and keeping them on the story track, or has totally disallowed any option that wasn't presented in the module

You definitely have a really good point. Any ideas for a solution?

Hey Pells, why don’t you tell us some more about your project? How are you approaching the design and presentation of background and scenarios with Avalanche?

But nonetheless, how does it apply in Avalance?

Hi Sebastien,

Still not quite getting you, bear with me.

Sebastien wrote:

Callan wrote: If you as a player are choosing where the story goes, then it'd depend on you whether the story turns out to be great or not, wouldn't it?
Surely you either have a fixed story which is great, or a non linear story, but it's quality depends on your input?

What I meant is that, as a DM, I want something to offer my players. I want to be able to offer them choices. I think that's where freedom comes.

Well, maybe my choices are words weren't the best. Let me rephrase it.

Do you mean the something you want to offer is that really interesting story? It's offering them something precious to them, from you? Kind of like gift giving? And their choices are their way of recieving it?

Hi!
  For a flexible system, I think the trick is to not assume the traditional "Dungeon Master" role. But to essentially run NPCs like they are full characters with goals, motivations, resources, etc. Creating a dungeon or some sort of linear story is counter-productive. creating a character is fun and interesting.
  That won't work for every game, but as a framework to build off of, it should be a good start.

Hey Sébastien,

What exactly are you looking for from us in this thread? I have a feeling you are looking for some sort of confirmation to ideas that you already have, but do not really want to present these ideas.

- Frank

Frank, well, sorry it looks that way... I'll try to present over some ideas in the design and an answer to your question.

Difficulties in presenting story design
I guess presenting rules are easier. There are factual. I would present them and then get some responses on what can work or not. But for stories/setting it's quite different. But, I guess, I'll give it a try. What I'll attempt is presenting how I do apply my theory outside of actual play (which, I think, is a different matter). So, I'll try to give some excerpts as example, presenting the way I write, how it should be read, and finally, a general ideas of the final design. I hope I get it right and that can fit it into game design. I'll also try to avoid repeating myself from the presentation of my theory.

What I try to acheive
As I said earlier, I wish to offer a vast menu of adventures from which my players can choose from. So, it would like a multi plot scenario. Players can jump from plot to another from time to time. Also, I wish it to take the form of a campaign, a long running adventure. At first, the project didn't look like that, as I was more thinking of something like four to seven sessions adventures. But, as it grows and grows, I came to the point where I thougth that number of sessions was not a good idea. What's the point of designing a multi plot adventure if the players have only the time to take part in one. So, Avalanche would like a continuous scenario covering a year calendar. There are four main parts, one for each season. Each of them are divided in twelve weeks (i.e. three months). I try to present something like 20 to 40 events for any given week. Each of them occurs in a given location, involving given protagonists (characters, races or organisations). The lattest constitues what I call the essence, or, if you prefer the background. For Avalanche, I have 38 main characters, more than 30 races/organisations, 30 locations (city, stronghold or region), 10 main objects and 5 monsters (I'm not found of monsters). They are written outside of the timeline, describing their motivations, ressources and personal history, for the worst case scenario. So there's a background, or setting, but not without adventure. It took me a lots of time to design them. They represent 200 pages of a 'normal book' (not A4, usually used in rpg). Each part (season) should be about that size. I find reasonable.
Here is a teaser of the five stories for the first part spring (sorry for the poor translation):

The black orcs emerge from the depths
Where the river throws itself into the ocean, from where they come, they are legions. But here, so close to the surface, so close to the source, they can only count on themselves. Following different paths, groups of black orcs, eater of flesh, emerge on the surface of the land of exile. In either dwarf’s strongholds or at the edge of the kingdom of Dragun, lord of silence, their presence won’t go unnoticed. And among those who can find a way out, will they be able to reach the lake and free the mirror from the ice ? Will they be forced to form unnatural alliances if failure seems the only future ? Will they go as far as stealing the stone of madness ?
A secret expedition
As the king’s anniversary feast is announced, protagonists are working in the shadows. An expedition is being prepared, mandated by the crown. Many different partners are leagued together in this adventure, each one with his very own agenda. Will the guild find the ancient artifact ? Will Gromthess be able to free le lake from his frozen sleep ? Is the black goddess’s will going to be appeased, releasing the lord of death on the land of exile ? Who will dare to oppose those who rules the kingdom and their followers ? Will the secret of this expedition come to the ears of many ? Care to all those who might cross the path of these assassins, priests, pyromancers and fighters, as maybe death is the only thing they will be rewarded with.
The stone of madness
They have been given to the Luciomes, as with life, by the twelve ancients who ruled the world. Those two stones, the one of life and the one of death, balanced the existence of these old populate, bringing birth and mortality to the Luciomes who, in exchange, had to protect the nature, keeping her dark side at bay. But now, the two stones are gone. The one of death, also called the stone of madness, is in the hands of Gaknhrucq, the half orc shaman who takes his strength from it, as he defends Raijuvak from the assault of the white orcs. The balance has been broken for too long. The Luciomes, who swore to never wage war, will try to recover the stone of death from the humans. But the powerful artifact might attract others.
Kül-Khan-Tarm is freed from his icy prison
Many groups are moving toward the lake and the broken tower, willing to break the spell and free them from their icy prison. But what most doesn’t know is that in the depth of the ice is imprisoned, for over a thousand years, Kül-Khan-Tarm, the powerful lord of the kingdom of death, waiting patiently to have his revenge. Carried away by the broken ice or freed by the demon’s dagger, Tarm finds himself on the bank of the river. There, he is rescued by villagers who offer him a bed, and most importantly, time to recover. Gaining back his strength, he devours the soul of those who rescued him, transforming some into lost souls, doomed creatures living to serve and protect him. But as Tarm’s strength is growing, life seems to quit the hamlet and his surroundings. And so does his presence become more evident. And the demon knows he won’t able to hide there anymore longer.
Villagers try to overthrow their oppressors
Fear, desolation, despair. Living under brigand’s rule had never been an enviable faith. It is for those villagers who are exploited, broken, whose wife and daughters are kidnapped with impunity, but also for his miserable life, that Guan leaves his native hamlet in search of heroes in the big cities. With his friends, he has nothing to offer to those knights from Theobald’s order that join the adventure, asking nothing in return. It is light hearted that those young knights take in charge the defense of the village, training the populace, waiting for the battle to come. And when it came at last, they can’t believe their victory and the lack of strength of the brigands. But, as they try to chase out the petty thieves from their stronghold, the knights don’t realize the many eyes peering at them. As the brigands have other foes and friends.

Interesting post. I generally agree with the first couple replies. You can only tell so much before you start shoveling metaplot onto the collective heads of the intended audience. This, in effect, totally obliterates any long-term campaign goals unless they occur outside the presented story...which is defeating the purpose of providing it in the first place.

It's a very thin layer of ice, where you cant go too far in either direction. A tough stance to take, to be sure. With Realm, I find myself developing a very complex backstory...but leaving current events and the future virtually unknown. Even historical events are largely shrouded in mystery, allowing the players and GM to develop the world however they see fit. In the various sections in the setting, I have provided possible Hooks. Nothing more. Thus, a GM coudl select a specific hook or go an entirely different direction based on how he sees my setting.

I think what you are saying is "Why The Emphasis on Mechanics" versus "Why the lack of story?" and to that I can say only a few things. Mechanics only exist for you to use if you want to. Very few RPGs cannot be played without the system, and often they state this directly in the rules (the most readily available example beign Exalted with its "Golden Rule: of "if you dont like it, change it."

As such, why not simply focus entirely on story and omit mechanics to an almost superficial level? Much more than this and you then leave the RPG area and enter into a play or a production. That is the primary difference. One is play acting, the other is actual acting. One operates on a set of rules to govern the way the actors perform and the other sets no boundaries and leaves every aspect of the proceedings in the hands of the performer.

And to answer a question you presented:

I'd like to see a great rpg video game who sells a great, non linear story.

Sorry to keep probing, but I'm looking for a core here.

As I said earlier, I wish to offer a vast menu of adventures from which my players can choose from.

Non Linear
Having a game that takes 1000 hours of play doesn't make it non linear. Having some 'small facultative subplot' doesn't make a game non linear.
What I mean by non linear is this. Can you replay it, when it's done, and, by making other choices, taking different sides, get an all new perspective, insight of the story ? Maybe even get a different ending.

System
I don't omit mechanics. It's there. It's just I will use one (or many) that is already existing. I don't design one specific for what I'm writing. But, it might come later.

Menu

I sense a certain desire to take pride in the menu you can provide. For example, if the players could "get into the kitchen and cook up their own meals" it would bypass any opportunity for you to take pride in presenting the menu and having players decide to accept your offerings.

Presentation
Legendary defenders of Raijuvak, the white dragon hunters take their name from their summertime activity, the hunt for white dragons and the capture of their eggs. These are later transformed into dragonites by the shamen. Long ago, in an immemorial time past, the BaneHeart rode the dragons instead of fighting them. At that time, the clan was nomadic. But those days are long gone and lost, forgotten by all. The dragon hunters constitute a force of over seven hundred men using fifty or so dragonites.
Social structure and power
The dragon hunters are first and foremost a clan, bond by ties of blood, the blood of the BaneHeart. Their contribution to the safety of Raijuvak is of such importance that the council has granted them two seats. These two council members form the very heart of the clan. Until most recently, Ariadne and Athnar held this position, though in reality Ariadne was the clan’s true voice. Unfortunately, she disappeared last year, left for dead and replaced by her eldest son. The dragon hunters are closely linked to the blacksmiths and the shamen.
Membership and recruitment
Recruitment happens first of all on the basis of lineage. First come the children of Ariadne and Athnar BaneHeart, but also all the nephews and distant relations of this large clan that has lived on the lands of exile for as far back as the memory of man can recall. Beyond this large and prestigious clan, many are those who dream of a life of adventure and glory, spent tracking white dragons, riding on the back of clan BaneHeart’s dragonites. These outsiders are welcomed within the group, but their dreams of glory may well never come to be: stable boys to take care of the dragonites, lancers to assist the real hunters or else mere kitchen hands and camp builders… Only a select few will get to walk the path they dreamed of, and often only through a fortuitous marriage into the clan.
Activities
The group led by clan BaneHeart can boast of the proud service it renders Raijuvak during the winter season. And its role in repelling the onslaughts of Dragün and its horde of white orcs is no slight one. Riding their dragonites and clad in armour, the hunters are proud warriors. During the warm season, the Dragon hunters move towards the high mountain range to the east of Raijuvak, the crest of the world. There they hunt the white dragon, so as to steal their eggs and offer them to the shamen, that they may be transformed into dragonites, faithful slaves to their masters. The hunters are assisted by the shamen during these expeditions. They rarely venture beyond the feet of the mountains. In addition, the bodies of the vanquished white dragons are put to many uses. Their scales make for excellent armour and shields, once welded in the dwarven forges. As for the bones, they provide building material for city defenses. Their flesh, salted for preservation, ensures the hunters’ survival during the winter season. The hunters play a crucial part in the defense of the city, but it is closely linked to the other groups: shamen and blacksmiths, amongst others.
History
0 :it is told that the BaneHeart wander the lands of exile, the family torn apart.
310 : some BaneHearts would have settled in Bedora and Raijuvak.
547 : the BaneHearts are in Raijuvak and take part in defending the city against the white orcs. The first dragon hunts take place.
700 : dragon hunting is now a yearly activity.
1305 : shamen take part in the defense of Raijuvak for the first time.
1315 : for the first time, the shamen transform dragons’ eggs into  dragonites.
1319 : Athnar weds Ariadne against the will of Gorand BaneHeart. Father and son are no longer on speaking terms.
1325 : Athnar enters the Raijuvak council alongside his father.
1328 : Death of Gorand BaneHeart and end of the tensions within the clan. Ariadne enters the Raijuvak council. The clan turns towards her.
1350 : at the end of autumn, Ariadne disappears whilst taking part in the white dragon hunt. She is declared dead by the defenders of the summer capital. One of her sons, Asakar BaneHeart takes her place on the council.
1351 : defend the summer capital against the white orcs during the winter season. The loss of their leader, Ariadne, is cruelly felt by the defending force. Springtime come, the hunters head once again towards the crest of the world. And as some hunters disappear without trace in the mountains, rumour spreads about a mysterious knight riding a white dragon.

April septenary 1
The white dragon hunters leave Raijuvak
Asakar has taken his mother’s place and it is the first time he leads his troops to battle. In spite of this, the white dragon hunters remain as united as ever. An army as black as the noyrme of its weaponry, and white as the dragon scale armour that half of its warriors wear. Final preparations are complete and the troops break camp. Close to a thousand men, all in marching order, carrying halberd and spear. A flight of sixty or so dragonites is overhead, rode by the most powerful among these warriors. The army is set for the crest of the world. Ariadne is missed by all and this, the first hunt taking place without her in a generation, is dedicated to her memory
April septenary 2
The dragon hunters strike camp
Three closely linked plateaus. The BaneHeart know this region well and have set up their rear camp here for years. The troops followed three separate routes which took them through the mountain pass they now overlook. Already tents are being drawn up. Groups of archers are slightly higher up, positioned in caves that have been adjusted for their use. The dragonites patrol above the encampment. The white dragon hunters are back in their summer settings. Strong winds blow on the camp and the temperature is reminiscent of the storms of Dragün, bar for the white orcs. It will take a full week for the men under the BaneHearts’ command to set up camp. But activity is reaching fever pitch, the hunt is open.
April septenary 3
The dragon hunters start scouting
By now, the camp is nearly fully established. The shamen accompanying the hunters have raised a storm covering a radius of one kilometre around the camp, shielding it from the attentions of the dragons. Empty caves can be seen all around the three plateaus where the hunters have set up. Remnants of old dragon lairs, whose inhabitants the hunters killed long ago. The number of dragonites overhead has fallen drastically. The hunters are out scouting. In small groups of three or four on their steed, they explore the surrounding region, not daring to stray to far from camp at first. They are looking for dragon lairs. Flying at low altitude, they seek out the inhabited caves that form their preys’ usual refuge. They do not want to fight them. Not yet anyway. Once a cave has been found, the troops will set out.
Dramnard heads north, in pursuit of orcs
Riding his faithful steed, Dramnard plans to harass the black orcs, even though he knows he has much land to cover in order to catch up. Flying at full speed towards the lands of silence, Dramnard rapidly notices that this vast territory has drawn back towards the ice palace. No trace can be seen of white orc storms nor of those pursuing the black orcs. Dramnard hesitates. Should he head towards the ice palace ? If the rumours that abound on that accursed place are true, he has no hope of achieving anything there alone. Then, an idea comes to him. « If the black orcs appeared at different locations across the lands of exile, maybe the dragon hunters will have found some on the crest of the world ? » Before heading back to Raijuvak, Dramnard thus decides to make for that region.
April septenary 4
Dragon hunters discover a lair
The hunters remain mounted. From the safety of a mountain hideout, they stake out the grotto they have discovered. One hunter gestures upwards, pointing to the sky. « It’s the male ! » A white dragon, whose size doesn’t exceed four metres, is swooping around the mountain before heading towards the grotto, under the keen eyes of the hunters. « The female must be inside protecting the eggs ». Looking down towards the gorge that leads to this location, the men assess strategic emplacements. « Our troops could move through here. We would need to station archers over there ». The hunters fly over the region one last time before leaving. No sign of any other dragons. « Let’s go and warn Athnar. We have what we came for ».
Ariadne makes her first appearance
Hunters are flying over the mountains at low altitude. Ariadne has spotted them for a while now and is relentlessly stalking them. Her steed knows the region much better than the hunters do, which allows her to operate undetected. The hunters finally land and the dragonrider chooses this moment to attack. Flying around a mountain on the hunters’ path home, Ariadne blindsides them. At the sight of the huge dragon that she rides, the hunters are panic-stricken and one of them is struck down before he even has time to take off. Following the two others, she catches up with a first and beheads him with a single strike of her sword. Reaching the second, her dragon brings him down, spiraling groundward. A few metres from the icy surface, the dragon breaks fall and heads skyward again, leaving the hunter and his mount blown apart on impact.
A group of hunters is missing
Athnar displays his satisfaction, but must also hide his concern. A group of hunters has returned to inform him of the location of a lair they can strike at. The hunt will be able to start in earnest at last. However, another group is missing. What could have happened to them ? Have they simply be delayed ? Were they attacked by dragons ? « Not much chance of that. Not those men. They know at what altitude to fly. » From inside his tent, he can hear the wind blowing over the camp. Asakar interrupts his musings, bringing the outside cold in with him. « Father, the men are ready to leave. » Taking the helmet in front of him, Athnar puts it on as he strides out. « We can’t leave them waiting then, can we ? »
Dramnard makes a strange encounter
Interrupting her flight, Drizoney is the first to catch sight of the strange figure. « Over there ! » Dramnard needs a few moments before he too can discern what his steed has located from afar. A huge white dragon, over ten metres in length, is flying above the mountains. A strange figure clad in white armour is on its back. Even Drizoney is no match for such an opponent. « Let’s give this one a miss, eh ? » Dramnard agrees with his bronze dragon’s sense of caution. « Don’t worry, Drizoney, we’ll leave this dragon alone. But I wonder what it is doing at such low altitude. » The dwarf therefore decides to give the white dragon a wide berth, while continuing to look for the dragon hunters’ encampment.