Hello I'm new to the forge and I'm wondering if i can get some feedback on what people think of my idea for a game I'm wanting to develop.
OK the idea is as follows:
Imagine heaven and hell are not two completely different plains of existence they are infact two neighboring country's. Hell is the slummy third world country while Heaven is the advanced developed country. All that separates the two is a boarder fence (think US/Mexico boarder) and a few angel and demon patroles on there respective sides of the fence. The players are souls sent to Hell for what ever reason the player comes up with and are serving there sentence in Hells capital city (pandemonium). Its crap living in hell infact its made so much worse because heaven is just over the fence. Just over the fence is where you want to be. So you decide to jump that fence. Become an asylum seeker in heaven. The only obstacle is a cross country trek through hell as escaped prisoners. And then you have to get past the immigration board on the other side.
Its is game about jumping boarders, escaping demon police, redeeming your soul in hell and trying not to be dragged back to whatever sadistic hole you escaped form.

This is the bare bones of my game idea but I'm wondering if i could get any feedback on whether this would appeal to anybody as a game they would want to play in. I will post more about game content (game mechanics etc) afterwords but I'm also wanting to get any feedback on OTHER thing that people would like to know about the game (Like have i left BIG holes that mean you don't get what the game is about?)
Thank for reading the post
Robert

I think that the concept sounds pretty neat, but right now it's really just a big lump of color and situation.  What are you trying to do with system?

Personally, I think that, when you get to heaven, the game is just beginning.  What's life like as a "styxback" through the Pearly Gates?  Are you going to try to help your old friends and family out of Hell as well?  Is there an angelic INS that's going to come for you?

yrs--
--Ben

Hi Robert, welcome to the Forge!

Sounds like a sweet concept, I have to say. Whilst I really don't want to force you down the road of following links, I think it is worthwhile for you take a look at Troy's "Power 19" questions on his blog. It might help focus your design and point out things that you hadn't considered about your design. Also, it's cool for us to see your answers and all, but please remember to let us know what bits you want feedback and scrutiny on. It will help focus us in helping you, which is always a good thing. Asking general "do you like this?" questions isn't really easy for us to work with.

It looks like you are well on your way to answering the first couple of questions anyway. I'm going to say what I see from your concept above, and then you can correct me if I'm wrong or move on if I got what you were saying. cool?

1.) What is your game about?

As you have said above, it's a game about jumping boarders, escaping demon police, redeeming your soul and trying not to be dragged back to whatever sadistic hole you escaped from. Becoming an asylum seeker in heaven.

It sounds to me like this is a game about escaping your past sins - represented by jumping the fence, avoiding the patrols and so on. But because you haven't actually repented your past life, you aren't welcome in Heaven when you get there either.

2.) What do the characters do?

My take on this is that they use what resources they have at their disposal (what would these be?) try to avoid being recaptured by either Demons (who want you back in Hell) or Angels (who want you out of Heaven). What is the overall goal for the characters? Getting into Heaven? Hiding-out in Heaven? Being accepted in Heaven (I guess by showing true repentance for their sins)? Is it something else? Is it something the player decides freely?

3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?

You haven't said anything about this as far as I can see, so I'll try to break this down a bit? Do you want a GM? If so, what does he do? Are there any restrictions or rules about what he does (like the Dogs Town Creation)? If there is a GM, how is the responsibility for what gets to say what divided (can the players make setting elements up, for example)? How to the players affect the game? Is it entirely through their characters? Do they have any other resources or mechanics that operate on a 'player' level (like Fan Mail in Primetime Adventures)? How do the players show the rest of the group what they think is cool and what they want out of the game?

Loads of mini-questions there for just one 'big question', but they don't all need answering, really. I'm more interested in what playing the game would "look like" rather than any mechanical details just yet.

Hope this helps,
Warren

Sounds very cool. Exactly when does the game start and end?

I agree with Ben that it'd be fun - well, emotionally engaging is probably a better term -  if play went on after you crossed the fence. Because life isn't paradise anywhere, and there's loads of trouble waiting on the other side of that fence. Refugee camps? Waiting for years behind another fence until the paperwork comes through? Being subjected to discrimination etc, when you finally make it?

The ideas you have are awesome.

I can see questions about redemption, authority, morality, and more redemption cropping up.  So you broke into heaven - does that mean you are less damned?  Or are you kinda empty?  Everyone else in heaven seems SO happy, can you be sure that your experience matches theirs?  Does it matter you are in heaven, if you don't?  What feelings do you have about the people who belong here, who didn't have to work to get here, who seem truely happy?

Guilt
Envy
Anger
Pride
Lust

Man.  I want to play this right now!

I think it sounds pretty cool.  I think the important resource in this game should be the condition of your soul.  So, you sinned on Earth, so when you died, you went to hell.  While in hell, you've been behaving well, so that now your soul would be welcome in heaven.  But your not in heaven.  Can you get to heaven without tarnishing your soul so much that you would no longer be welcome there?

Steve

I like Grover's idea that your soul is the important resource (if this is a resource dependant game.)

Hi!
  I like the premise. But unlike other posters, I see this game is more about the journey than the destination. Like the A-Team where they never really clear their name, they just keep running. If I'm right, than all tha jazz about the soul as a resouce is needless. Besides, you're sneaking into heaven, you don;t belong there, you're not going to be pure of heart, lol
  Anyways, it seems like a cool idea, but I guess you do need to iron out what the characters are actually doing and what the reward/endgame is about. Good luck!

Wow!! I really like this concept, but I kind of side with Grover. I think that the Soul's condition should be a big piece of the game. Other things to think about: Who can players be? I think this game would be really cool if PC types included Demon patrolers and Angel border gaurds. Think of the conundrums that could come up? It would be a really fun game. Let me know if you get this one done! I'd buy it!

Gary

Okay, serious, non-snarky question:  Why heaven and hell?

You're talking about the US and Mexico, right?  So why not say "You're in Mexico.  You want to be in the U.S.  Nobody wants you there.  Go!" ?

well the main reason i wanted to set it in heaven and hell is that you look at any country and you see that they all have there good points and bad points (there push and pull factors to go into demographic terms) well the idea of using heaven and hell is that one is clearly NOT nice to be in one and one IS it more to make sure there no confusion as to why theses people are escaping there current situation (i don't really want to go into REAL life politics either). but the #1 reason for the setting is that i thought it would be far cooler and open up more possibility's.

also the idea of this game is to be a one session game either you make it or you don't your character gets dragged back to there punishment (death in game terms) or they make it into heaven but at that point of gettinginto heaven in order to enjoy what it has to offer you you must seek asylum (as in real life) and the only way to get excepted is to come up with a interesting or( if the gaming group  wants it) comical reason for you to be excepted into heaven.

to answer some of the other question also: the them of the game is about trying to get what you want which is a secure life in peace and without fear(the idea for me doing this is to parody real life asylum seeking in a supernatural monster fighting fashion)

what the character do is to first of all escape the capital city of hell (pandemonium) which will be fairly easy (but the players don't need to know this ;-) ) second of all is to work out HOW the hell there gonna get over the boarder wether that be smashing your way through patroles of celestial being OR hiding under the tracks of the the train that run between the two nations (don't ask me why there is a train that i will have to think of)

The situation with GM and players is that it will be the classic set up GM describes situation and player roleplay it out. I'm tossing about idea of a pervertion point style system (like in paranoia) but at the moment the player have no say in the setting and what the world is like. But one idea i am putting in is that if a player dies (or as close as you can get to it in the afterlife) the player effectively become a co-GM roleplaying out NPC for the GM to help  lighten the load.

Th game starts when the player are escaping there chain gang form there demon prison officers. It end when all of the player's have got over the boarder and have either passed or failed the immigration test (if they get that far that is if all players die then that's when the game ends)

OK that's as far as i can answer right now you guys have been some real help I'll need to go off and re think how I'm gonna present this game BUT i will soon come out with the ideas i have for my system if anybody wants to post giving me more comment on what they think of the idea of the game (IE wether it sick that I'm making a game about asylum seeking and that i should really re think on what I'm doing here OR wether they don't understand the game still) (I'm sorry by the way if I'm to sketchy I'm am only learning see.

thanks again
Robert

How about if the guys in Hell can't actually get into Heaven, because what they think is "Heaven" is really just another part of Hell that looks better but has its own special horrors and tortures? Add your own struggling-middle-class interpretation here.

Hi Robert,

Cool idea - and a good answer there to Tony's question (BTW, ask him "Why super heroes?" sometime! *wink*)

Now, what do the players do in your game? Like, how are you imagining the players getting closer to heaven in a really cool moment (like that rail track hiding bit, perhaps)?

What does the player do in that cool moment? Are they rolling dice and hoping for good results? Are they saying something about what's going on in the game world? Are they saying something to the GM and hoping for a yes instead of a no? Can the GM say yes or no as much as he likes, or does he have a limited number of points he has to spend in order to give one result over another?

well the system im coming up with for it (which i will post in te next few days) wil mean that the closer the players get to there ultimate goal the harder each action gets. It hard to explain how that gona work without stating to talk about the sytem but at the moment lets just say there gona be more dramatic failers the closer the players get to heaven.
Also in answeing ow the players are gona get over th boarder in a realy col moment im gona leave the planning of there escape up to them but im gona do a bit a a case study looking at the way real people hop boarder so i can try and set up interesting possibility for th players in the game.
has anyone got any intersting ways theve heard people getting across boarders?

That idea you have about dead PCs' players running NPC's... how about if that increased the power of the opposition? So that the game might be easy to start with, but each time a PC "died", that would mean one more badass enemy to confront?

well the game gonna get harder for the players anyway so what might have seemed easy to them at the begining  will actually seem like a marathon near the end as each roll of the dice becomes far harder

Hi Robert,

zompire wrote: Also in answeing ow the players are gona get over th boarder in a realy col moment im gona leave the planning of there escape up to them

zompire wrote: ...the only way to get excepted is to come up with a interesting or( if the gaming group  wants it) comical reason for you to be excepted into heaven.

first of all sorry I'm used to just hitting post but i am going to make sure i will spellcheck first now.

OK well back to the questions:
I think most of you may (this is just my thoughts here though i am prone to misunderstanding people) be missing is this is not going to be a in-depth game whatsoever so in the GM saying no to an idea it should be on a "whats fun for my group" mindset whether something works or not, the GM should try and accommodate any and all ideas and then try and muck them up a bit always put in complications (as there invariably always is) BUT i will include some ideas for the GM to drop in as to how escape from hell if the player are getting really stuck. This is mostly to try and come up with a idea which is fun for every group not trying to restrict the GM to specific ways out of Hell this I think encourages the player to help themselves in a game. Meaning that the players will actually have to think about what they want to do rather than have it given to them on a silver platter.

There will be a system also to accommodate the interview in heaven this will consist of a sliding scale kind of like darkside points in the d20 starwars game (but again i cant really explain this until i run through the system of the game)

oh yes as well, further posts to do with this game will have "asylum seekers" (the working title I might add) In the name of the thread.

You should totally make the seven deadly sins the main attributes of the characters -- and the seven virtues the attributes of angelic NPCs.  Or, hell, start everybody off with stats in the Sins, and they can migrate points into Virtues through play.

Heya,

You should totally make the seven deadly sins the main attributes of the characters -- and the seven virtues the attributes of angelic NPCs.  Or, hell, start everybody off with stats in the Sins, and they can migrate points into Virtues through play.

DO NOT WORRY PEOPLE the 7 sins and 7 virtues Will be used but as a Role play curve not as skills Ive already got a system mapped out just need to work out how to get it writ en down coherently

Why are heaven and hell so close together?
  People will want to know how heaven and hell have such a close proximity. Also, who runs these countries? Are there any other countries in this world? If only the strong can make it across to heaven then basically hell is a place for the weak. If so, can you, by strength alone, get yourself into heaven? Also, what crimes did the Pcs commit to deserve going to hell, and why would the immigration people in heaven want them there?

OK when i say heaven and hell i mean the literal sense heaven and hell (not literally country's) i thought it might be interesting to imagine them as neighbors rather than the one upstairs and the one downstairs (also makes more sense if you hoping boarder that there side by side)
second of all there are no other country's, both expand out in all directions infinitely (as their both in the infinite afterlife) from where they meet.

Its not only the strong that get into heaven it the quick as well you could force your way in (but that's more likely to be committing a sin) but ingenuity to get in is the best way (again reflection real life boarder hopping)

And as in the previous post i made the sin the the players will roleplay around will be there crime they OVER indulged in that sin therefore they went to hell because of it

and the heaven authority will decide wether they actually deserve to be in heaven on wether they have redeemed themselves along the way (by roleplaying there characters virtue to a certain point, But roleplaying there sin will also be beneficial in the rolls made in game)

also I'm not going to say who dose run heaven and hell well its the classic God in heaven the Devil In Hell (angels working for god, daemons working for the devil)

DO NOT WORRY PEOPLE the 7 sins and 7 virtues Will be used but as a Role play curve not as skills Ive already got a system mapped out just need to work out how to get it writ en down coherently

Hi Robert,

Firstly, thanks for running the spellcheck over your posts - it helps a lot.

I think that everyone here think that your game idea rocks. It does seem that we all have different thoughts in our heads about what playing the game will "look like" between the players and the GM, and how the dice rolls and game system will fit into that as well. We will sort that out step-by-step, if that's OK?

zompire wrote:
DO NOT WORRY PEOPLE the 7 sins and 7 virtues Will be used but as a Role play curve not as skills Ive already got a system mapped out just need to work out how to get it writ en down coherently

zompire wrote:
oh yes as well, further posts to do with this game will have "asylum seekers" (the working title I might add) In the name of the thread.

Heya,

Why are heaven and hell so close together?