Topic: game bling
Started by: Emily Care
Started on: 2/21/2006
Board: Publishing
On 2/21/2006 at 4:03pm, Emily Care wrote:
game bling
Hello all,
I've been noticing more online stores with game related products cropping up. I mean t-shirts, hats etc. Joshua just put a site up for glyphpress. (go J!) Fan products.
How is this going for people? Is it mainly cafe press that folks are using and if so how do you find it? Is it a hassle etc. And also, for any who may have been doing it for longer (I know Matt W's had hoodies aboot for PtA since last summer at least) is it a substantial income stream? Or mainly for fun?
all the best,
Em
On 2/21/2006 at 4:12pm, Czar Fnord wrote:
Re: game bling
If I may extend the question set...?
Is anyone using such merchandising as an actual System Technique?
(ex: Steve Jackson Games' Munchkin T-Shirts have actual card rules on them that the player can invoke in a game.)
Hope this isn't hijacking! I just thought it applicable to the thread's broad scope of "use of merchandising"...
*butting out, now*
David
On 2/21/2006 at 6:16pm, Blankshield wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
I didn't sell as many of the "I play dead people" T-shirts as I'd hoped - I'd wanted to shamelessly latch on to the "all things conceivably goth/vampire related are cool" bandwagon - but I did sell a few, and they've been selling steadily if slowly to the local market since. No website sales, but I don't exactly advertise.
One thing I would say for sure if you're going to go the T-shirt/merchandising route: find out which major outfitter/supplier makes the stuff for your Local Major Sports Team, and see them. They're going to be more professional and probably cheaper than any of your alternatives. My cost per shirt is substantially lower than I was able to get via cafepress or Pegasus or any of the other major on-line 'we make your shirts for you' vendors.
James
On 2/21/2006 at 7:15pm, Andrew Morris wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
James, what kind of minimum orders do you find you have to make to get those good rates from the local supplier? And, to go back to Emily's main point, is this a money maker for you, or a promotional thing?
On 2/22/2006 at 1:24am, Blankshield wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Andrew wrote:
James, what kind of minimum orders do you find you have to make to get those good rates from the local supplier? And, to go back to Emily's main point, is this a money maker for you, or a promotional thing?
36 shirts, heavyweight (10.1 oz) 100% cotton (preshrunk), white silkscreened onto plain black T's at $7.20 CAD/shirt, including the cost of making the screen, and I sell for $20 USD, which seems to be standard for the breed.
My actual cost ended up a bit higher than that, because I decided to try some 'babydoll T' in the mix, which are a bit more expensive, and there's taxes and stuff.
The T-shirts take less room to store (when folded neatly and stacked) than my stock of Death's Door does.
I'm using them as incidental advertising, in that they have the website URL on them, but they're mostly intended to be their own revenue stream. My break-even point is 15 shirts (roughly), and I'm at 10 sold, after 6 months. I'm planning another, different run of shirts for next Gencon.
I consider them to be a low-cost and/or minor profit product in their own right, that happens to cross-promote my games, mostly by virtue of being sold at the same places.
James
On 2/22/2006 at 8:29pm, jasonm wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Bling, bling!
Hey Emily,
Cafe Press is childishly easy to set up and operate but has a few potential problems. The prices are high enough that if you want to make a profit, rather than just spread a meme, your margins will be pretty low. Also, their terms of service may be objectionable to some. My shop, FYI: http://www.cafepress.com/meekmok
Spreadshirt (http://www.spreadshirt.com/) has a wider selection of attractive base clothing and (importantly) can handle vector output, so you can get really nice precision images, including on black fabric. I have a little shop set up I'm testing: https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=22942 Pricing is similar to Cafe Press; in both places I don't have any markup at all, and the prices are barely reasonable.
If you are prepared to handle fulfillment local shops are the way to go for T-shirts, but you don't get just-in-time and you don't get somebody else taking care of everything.
On 2/23/2006 at 2:55am, Sydney Freedberg wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
I never wear t-shirts, and the idea struck me the other day that what I really, really want to see is a bunch of people all wearing Indie-gaming-logo neckties....
...but I can't think of anyone but me who'd wear them.
On 2/23/2006 at 2:22pm, talesien wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Emily,
This is one of those subjects that really comes down more to business than anything else. What do you want "bling" to accomplish for your game? Is it a seconday advertising stream? Is it meant to make money? Etc. I would suggest to you that if it is an advertising stream, then DO NOT SELL THE SHIRTS. Give them away with every purchase of your game, and at conventions, give them away PERIOD, with the condition that the next day they have to be worn. Make it fun. If you are looking at it as a revenue stream, then obviously you need to do a few things first.
1) Don't rely on what YOU think is cool. Come up with a few designs and test market them among your target demographic. If they dont' like them, don't produce them.
2) Do not pay any more than $4/shirt. There are LOTS of places that you can get pricing even cheaper than that.
3) Do not, no matter what, use Cafe Press. You have so littel control over the sizing, etc., and most of the stuff they do is ot a true silkscreen, but rather a heat transfer process.
Here's a great company to work with.
www.tourcity.com
They do merch for a TON of bands, but all of their work is custom, and pricing on an order of 100 shirts is around $3.00/unit.
Hope this helps!
Gary
On 2/23/2006 at 2:37pm, jasonm wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
http://www.tour-city.com/
Good suggestion!
On 2/23/2006 at 3:59pm, abzu wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
I did a run of about 40 BW t-shirts two years ago. 20 of the shirts were pre order/pre sold. The other 20 took about two years to sell/give away. T-shirts are fun, but not a big money maker.
-L
On 2/23/2006 at 4:05pm, inthisstyle wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
I'm contemplating this for IPR, but mostly as give-aways.
On 2/23/2006 at 4:18pm, Czar Fnord wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Some REALLY good stuff here; let me draw out a few key points that I see:
I never wear t-shirts...
Me neither. More game companies (maybe not individual game brands, tho) should consider polo shirts with decent embroidered logos on the breast (a la most "corporate" polos). This works REALLY well, too, if one considers the potential for such a shirt to help gamers find each other out there in the world of the mundanes. I doubt any non-gamer would recognize (or react oddly to) the White Wolf logo or, even, the various Tradtion' logos... but it would be like a "secret hi-sign" to other gamers you meet. Ditto on most other major game company logos--even those which employ logotype (i.e. text is a major part or all of their logo).
Plus, anyone who didn't recognize it but was intrigued by the design could be a potential new gamer... and new customer.
...what I really, really want to see is a bunch of people all wearing Indie-gaming-logo neckties. ...but I can't think of anyone but me who'd wear them.
I'd wear one (the four or five times a year that I wear a tie). But on a more general point, I think ties could be a GREAT ad- or revenue-stream.
First, consider how companies like Tabasco and Universal Studios have made such ties work: they use very subtle patterns to "hide" the logo in what appears to be a more conservative look. They also will hide unconservative elements of branding below the "breast line" of a buttoned jacket or vest, so that the fun stuff doesn't offend mundanes, but you need only unbutton a few buttons to get ready for the after-work parties.
Second, think about how that would differentiate your "shwag" at cons: everyone throws around fliers and stickers, some folks drop dime for Ts... but wouldn't you notice a nice, professional-looking tie that had, say, a Giovanni logo (Vampire Mafia, for those who don't know White Wolf) craftily worked into its weave? Or Ventrue? Hell, I think White Wolf missed a GREAT shot at cool merchandise with this notion of ties.
Third, as with the logoed polo shirts, a subtly logoed tie makes for a nice, low-key way to let your gamer pride show without freaking the mundanes (or your hiring manager!).
In general, I think it is an idea that would have a LOT of traction for certain "styles" of games or publishers. I mean, I can't see a Toon tie--hmm, yes I can. OK. I can't see a Munchkin (card game) tie working. But a White Wolf or My Life with Master tie would be quite appropriate.
Come up with a few designs and test market them among your target demographic. If they dont' like them, don't produce them.
If you want a simple, reliable, and low cost way to test market such designs, then make stickers of each design (a few hundred each) and then stack them all right next to each other in front of your booth babe (or booth boy). The ones that you run out of first have the design that you could get worn, or even sold; plus, your booth attendant can get a good idea of folks' impressions of all the designs by watching their reactions... or by simply asking anyone who will take a minute to check them out and comment. Keep score!
T-shirts are fun, but not a big money maker.
This, I think, is only a factor of the content of the shirt and how widely it is marketted. If one only hangs a rack up at cons, one has a lot of competition for relatively limited dollars. But if one sells online, at cons, at local game stores (by consignment), at local "kitch" stores (ex: Spencers, in my area): therre's a lot of exposure. Alos, one's Ts could have content that is game-branded but still stand alone with other demographics (think, again, of White Wolf and Cthulhu Ts: they get goth business and Illuminati fans and some rockers as customers, in addition to gamers who "get the reference."
Also, may I say that, if you only had 20 shirts in stock, you probably could not marketed broadly enough in the first place. I think it would take me about 100 shirts just to put what I consider baseline stock levels in the local game and comic stores (say, 2 or 3 of popular sizes in each) and still have enough to take to cons or respond to web sales. May I ask: what marketing channels did you employ, that it took two years to sell 20 shirts?
{Comments about local v online providers.}
I say shop locally, sell globally. A small shiop will (a) work more with you to perfect the screen that you WILL have to buy no matter who you deal with, (b) maintain that screen better and keep it handy for on-demand small-runs, (c) be willing to do smaller runs, (d) be more responsive to need for new runs, (e) vaue your business much more than some random web business, and (f) possibly clue you in to price breaks or over-stock of which you could take advantage, once you have shown them your loyalty.
Also, don't fear the squeegie! Basic silk screening kits are not too pricey, and it's fairly easy to set up a home shop in a corner of a garage or basement. One-color, one-sided runs cand be knocked out in about a minute or two per shirt. Then, all you need is someone fairly good at painting (to do the screens) or a screen printer in your areas... who won't charge a whole lot more than the shirt maker--or you might even find a shirt printer who will makes screens for you without requiring a shirt printing contract--another benefit of local boys.
Have fun wiith it!
David
On 2/23/2006 at 4:35pm, Clay wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
On the topic of necktie swag, I found this site: http://www.designyourtie.com/
Now I'd kinda like to do something like that for my business. It would look very cool going to presentations with my logo tie. You'll notice though that the prices aren't cheap. Finding a local maker of neckties might be an issue, but if you can find one I've got to imagine that they can beat these prices.
On 2/23/2006 at 4:49pm, Czar Fnord wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Finding a local maker of neckties might be an issue
That totally depends.
Custom weaves - Yep, that's Real Money. The Tabasco ties I mention above use a custom weave involving not only silk screening but actual "highlight thread" that must have been worked in with the actual loom. I doubt you could get such ties in runs less than thousands or tens of thousands, just because of the price to set up such a loom and pattern.
Silk screening - I don't see why a local silk screener couldn't order up a bunch of ties wholesale and "unfold" them for the moment it takes to press on the ink (if the design even calls for a "wrap-around" to the back of the tie--a "bleed" in printing terms). Call around.
Embroidery - I am SURE you can get logos and such embroidered onto a tie at any embroidery shop or tailor or even a Singer store that sells their bad-ass embroidery machine (such stores usually try to take custom order runs to keep the machine busy; they run over $2000 and, as such, must be kept busy even when a display model). Just order up some basic tie colors or patterns that complement your logo and get it done. This is one treatment that would likely not cost a lot more to do multi-color versus monotone: it's just another spool of thread set up on the machine, for embroidery; whereas every color of silk screening needs its own screen made and takes extra time (switching screens between colors).
Keep an open mind about all the ways you could treat ties, before you fear their pricing--they are just polyester or silk cloth, in the end;
David
On 2/24/2006 at 10:19pm, Emily Care wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Thanks so much--ties, give it away, other sites. Check. I'd wear a tie if it was narrow, Sydney (horrible growing up in the '80s, rots your fashion sense).
This is great info. I'm thinking hard & will put this to use. It seems like products are very much about creating community & brand sense rather than for pulling money in. But I can't help but think that there are so many fun things to do with this. The world of products is much easier to play with than they used to be. The big question seems to be what is the cash outlay. It's great to have folks walking around at a con with your t-shirts on, even if its a small handful of your friends who are selling your game. (Yes, I'm thinking of you Luke : ) It makes it easier for people to know who to ask about it, and just puts it in peoples' minds. And everytime I see an Inspectres button, I covet it.
Then there is the nightmareish phenomenon of having huge streams of people lining up for free stuff. At GenCon I saw someone giving away t-shirts for free on the condition that everyone wait in line. This made a huge line that got other people interested, so they stood in line etc. Extremely effective, yet chilling at the same time. I've no clue who the product was for. On the other hand, I was given one at Dreamation for a movie (of all things), a new matrix thingee, and I'll wear it. But then, it was free and looks cool.
Anyway, I stuck a bunch of links to product stores on another aggregator lens. I was surprised at how few I found, though. I bet I am missing some. but it does make sense that not so many folks do it if it's not really going to make you money.
best,
Emily
On 2/27/2006 at 1:04am, nikola wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
Let me check my sales figures...
Ah! An update! As of this moment, I've made zero sales!
Part of the issue is Café Press, I think. The black T-shirt has a miniscule margin, or you charge too much. I'd love to figure out another way to do it. If I could sell shirts for $16, that would be great.
The other shirts are weird and obscure, but have to do with a longstanding, weird, and obscure project of mine. When that project sees light, maybe I'll sell some.
The margins on the promotional shirts ("I Played Under the Bed with Your Mom" and the Xenoglyph shirt, not "Know Your Copyrights" or the Tao shirts) is zero and I consider them advertising. I can't charge enough for them to make me more money than they're worth as advertising.
On 3/16/2006 at 3:54pm, Czar Fnord wrote:
RE: Re: game bling
One additional point, having rediscovered this thread while browsing:
Most cities have a local shop (or shops) which can print onto nearly anything you can imagine. Plastic, glass, cloth--you name it. Want a Frisbee or coasters or poker chips with your game logo or slogan? Simple. Glasses, mugs, steins: everything is available, from screen-printing to etched to molded. Golf balls, sunglasses, tie clasps, kites--hmm, maybe not kites, but it's worth asking!
With the common availability of all manner of cheap crap made in Asia, and modern jet printing techniques, one can make just about anything into promotional material.
Have more fun!
David