Hello All,

I thought I'd share with you the story of something rather drastic I did a few weeks ago.  For years now, I've run a weekday group.  The group has gone through several members and permutations.  Somethings have worked and somethings haven't but I've had this general sense of functional decay going on two years or so now.  Then some stars aligned and I did something that scared the hell out of me.

One of my group members, Patrick, is a nighttime security guard.  His nights off were Monday and Tuesday and he gamed on both nights.  Tuesdays were with me.  However, he recieved a promotion that would force his nights off to switch to Thursdays and Fridays.  Patrick's Monday group wanted Thursdays and we didn't want Fridays.  But there was a general consensus in my group that Thursdays would be better anyway.  Poor Patrick would have to choose.

At the same time I got an email from Matt, a fellow who lurks around here quite a bit and who had found me via Clinton's Find Play.  He was asking about anyone running Dogs in the Vineyard or Primetime Adventures.  After some thought and meeting Matt over sushi, I decided that this was an opportunity I could not let go.

I sent an email to my group and what I told them was that I was quitting the group.  I then told them that I was starting another activity with a very specific purpose.  I put it in those terms not only to make it clear but it's also how I felt about it inside.  I was ending the old activity and starting a new activity with a new, clearer, purpose.  I was assuming ownership of the activity and I was extending an invitation for people to join me in that activity.  I included a description of Dogs in the Vineyard with the email.  Here's what happend:

Patrick is currently stuck working seven nights a week, anyway, until they can replace his old shift, however, he did express some objection to my verbiage about 'assuming ownership of the endeavor' and declined participation.

Amy had another Thursday night group, anyway.  She was going to ask them to switch to a different night, but when she got my email simply chose them over me.

Dave declined on the basis that he thinks a lot of the indie-games sound like "mental masturbation." *Shrug*

That's 3/5 of my group that quit.  Tyler stayed and my wife stayed.  Matt joined.  We play Dogs in the Vineyard.

Due to Patrick's grueling work schedule I really haven't seen him but he's been participating, however, minimally about the fate of my weekend group.  I had dinner with Dave a week or so ago and we talked cheerfully about video games and anime and other stuff just fine.  Amy is still Amy.  So everything seems cool.  Oddly, the one who seems to have been confused and personally wounded by what I did is Tyler, whose reaction to the whole thing can be read here:
http://donathos.livejournal.com/21028.html

The net result is that I am having the time of my life playing Dogs in the Vineyard.  The game is focused, the discussion and cooperation among the players is phenominal.  I think for the first time my wife maybe having more fun role-playing than even I am.  We've already been through our first town which culminated in a near-shootout with a wayward 15 year old girl, Sister Honora.  Probably one of the most rewarding things was afterwards when everyone noted that at somepoint in their life they have met, or even dated, an Honora.  I already have the next town planned.

In planning Dogs I feel as though I have come full circle.  The first game I even really felt comfortable GMing was Chill.  The methodology I used to plan Chill games was very similar to the Town Creation Rules in Dogs.  The difference is, I understand why that works and so the results are more focused and I no long feel the need to then plot out the clue-chain scene sequence to build up to the big clever reveal and pre-planned climax.  A step that I always hated and felt awkward doing even back then but thought was necessary to make the game work.  I revisit this thread from WAY back when, a lot: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=670.0

The point of all this is that much verbiage is thrown around on The Forge about how you can't train or make people like the things you do.  That if you're interested in a particular game, then go forth and play that game with the one or two people who show interest.  It is very much the, "If you build it, they will come" mindset.  I believed that verbiage from day one, and I thought about it a lot, but I never really acted on it.  A part of me was still holding on to the idea that, because I respect these people, there must be some way to *unlock* the same kind of creative drive I have within them.

All it took was ONE person coming to ME with the weird little game, for me to say, "Okay, well, I'm going over *HERE* and doing *THIS THING* now, who's with me?"  3/5ths said, "Not I."  I am not angry.  I am not hurt.  And I don't think they are either.  Amazing.

Hope that was interesting.

Jesse

Jesse,

That is fantastic! Congratulations! And thank you for telling us about it.

All the best,

/Peter

Yeah, that was interesting. And encouraging!

I wish I would've done what you did a couple of months ago when my gaming group split in two. Instead I hung onto the idea that the other two people would come around to the way me and my friend J saw things and that -- this is spot on with how I felt -- there must be some way to *unlock* the same kind of creative drive I have within them.

And as sessions dragged on I tried to talk about these problems that I saw. And I hoped for the salvation that communication and good games would bring. Then one of the guys just lost interest and quit.

And that was a relief, really.

This is the way to do it though.

Now I'm just hoping for that guy from FindPlay with Dogs and Primetime Adventures to show up ...

/Anders

Jesse, your post really resonates with me. I've found myself in a somewhat similar situation. When I moved back to Kansas City from Milwaukee 6 months ago, I had a ready-made gaming group: two guys I gamed with before I moved up to Milwaukee, one friend's wife (who had gotten into gaming in my absence), and another friend of mine that I had gamed with a bit before moving away (it was I who got this friend gaming with the other people). I moved back with my new gamer wife and we all started playing together. And in the past 6 months, I found my interest in gaming waning. I had fun playing the games we played, but the games--which were more "mainstream" than I'm really into these days--weren't really moving me. I felt like I was going through the motions. The thought of GMing filled me with dread. Prepping for games bored me, and I felt that game prep had become an excuse to avoid writing fiction. So, I announced I was dropping out of gaming for a while to write. When I did, another member of the group announced he was taking a hiatus as well, because he too was feeling burned out on gaming. (My wife had already decided to take a break from RPGs, which she does every so often.) I made it clear to the others that I still thought they were great friends and didn't want to stop hanging out with them. They really are some of the best friends I've ever had and incredible human beings. I just needed to stop playing RPGs for a while.

I started thinking recently about what I enjoyed about these weird "Story Games" we play. I started a discussion on another forum and wrote about it on my blog. I decided I needed to get away from heavy-prep, powerful-GM games and move towards games that require little to no prep and distribute power more evenly among the whole group of players. I sent an email out to my friends asking for feedback on my thoughts. The other friend who was taking a break emailed me back, saying, "Sounds good. Might be just what we need. Count me in." (I'm paraphrasing.) Another friend said (again, paraphrasing), "Sounds a bit lighter than what I usually like to do. Not really my cup of tea. But I'd be willing to play from time to time." The married couple haven't gotten back to me. My wife has said she's all for it. So, I've at least got myself, my wife, and one friend on board.

Unlike you, Jesse, I haven't had a chance to really get this going yet. This kind of gaming isn't new to me--while I was in Milwaukee I was in full indie game play mode--but trying to make games like Universalis, Capes, Breaking the Ice and PTA the norm for me in KC is new. It feels fresh and interesting. I'm pretty excited.

Hi all,

I'm the guy who emailed Jesse about starting up Dogs.  I'm having a fantastic time in the game too.  I thought maybe this was, you know, because I haven't played in a regularly scheduled RPG group in over a decade, but as it turns out, Dogs and the group really are that awesome.

Perhaps Jesse will write up the summary of the town.

Hi Jesse,  I'm at the splitting the group stage of your process.  I really don't want to do it, though.

There are 6 players in my group (including me)  and 3 of us have been gaming together for nearly 10 years ... it seems so much to 'throw away' but now that I have found out what it is about rpg-ing that I want - i.e. narratavism - I just can't endure the games that we have previously played any longer. Two of us will try narratavist games, but I don't think we'll be able to bring the others ...

So, I guess I'm posting to say thanks for starting this thread Jesse, it has helped me to see that the light at the end of the tunnel that I think I can see, may not actually be an oncoming train and might perhaps be better gaming ...

Hopefully, Colin

cmnash: Do you have a lot of free time? Because I find that if you have one gaming group that is giving you everything you need out of gaming, it's much easier to bear a less than stellar gaming experience in another gaming group if you think there's some other value in maintaining the gaming group.

I game on Wednesdays with a group that fits what I like to do very well, and it's wonderful. I also game on Fridays with a group that I like very much, but with whom I play games that are somewhat less than optimal in terms of fitting what I like to do. I still have fun on Fridays, the gaming just isn't as good.

Awesome, Jesse!  So glad to hear it!  (Now bring Matt, Tyler, and the wives to Gamex)

dunlaing wrote:
cmnash: Do you have a lot of free time? Because I find that if you have one gaming group that is giving you everything you need out of gaming, it's much easier to bear a less than stellar gaming experience in another gaming group if you think there's some other value in maintaining the gaming group.