When creating Capes characters by hand, are the only legal options in terms of the three columns to have a 3-4-5 style distribution or a 4-4-4 style distribution? (powers/style/attitudes)

What are the strategic reasons to pick a 4-4-4 setup over a 3-4-5 setup? And vice versa?

How would play be impacted (both pros and cons) if 2-5-5 were allowed?

I'm pretty sure that those are the two configurations, pretty much. As for effectiveness, it's hard to beat 345 because if you don't have a 5, you are locked out of rolling on conflicts when they reach that level. It's not quite as big a deal for non-superpowered characters because they only get to use their abilities once, but Supers can use that level 5 ability each page.

That said, I still create 444 characters. Sometimes the abilities you come up with just fit like that. Sometimes it's aesthetic. 444 is so nice and even. ;)

Thanks, that makes sense.

So then, to continue you train of thought, the best strategic and most effective character would be:
5 powers, 4 Styles and 3 Attitudes, and of the 4 Styles, 3 of them are powered.(Probably the level 1 would be unpowered)

This gives you 8 powered abilities: 1 five, and 2 each of ranks 2-4.  You also have 4 one use/scene abilities - 2 ones and 1 each of ranks 2-4.

Is this the best configuration?

I've been curious about the 444 build myself.  I haven't had a chance to really try one out, though, so I haven't gotten to see how it goes in practice.  It just doesn't seem like a very good strategic choice.  You're trading a 5 for a 4, right?

Did the 255/525/552 build get playtested and rejected?  I'd like to hear how that went.,

Trading a 5 for a 4, but also getting a third 4...

I too would like to know about 255 - I know it not allowed, don't know why.

Sindyr wrote:
So then, to continue you train of thought, the best strategic and most effective character would be:
5 powers, 4 Styles and 3 Attitudes, and of the 4 Styles, 3 of them are powered.(Probably the level 1 would be unpowered)

This gives you 8 powered abilities: 1 five, and 2 each of ranks 2-4.  You also have 4 one use/scene abilities - 2 ones and 1 each of ranks 2-4.

Is this the best configuration?

Sindyr wrote:
Is this the best configuration?

If my goal in a scene is to lose a lot and generate story tokens, I go 4-4-4 every time.

http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/GWS:VernichtungTr%C3%A4umer

dunlaing wrote:
If my goal in a scene is to lose a lot and generate story tokens, I go 4-4-4 every time.

http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/GWS:VernichtungTr%C3%A4umer

If you are facing a rolled five (more frequent than you'd think) and you say "Well, I'm not going to react that," then you've thrown in the towel and the other guy knows it.  When he goes to distribute his story tokens and says "Who opposed me with the most ferocity?" he is probably going to look to other people. 

If you are facing a rolled five and you say "DAMMIT!  I don't have a five!  I would so totally be thrashing you right now!" then you've just convinced the other guy that you are a more ferocious opponent ... that, but for the accident of your lacking the right ability you would be, even now, doing your level best to thrash him.  When he goes to distribute his story tokens he is going to look at you first.

A subtle point, but it is of such subtleties that the dynamic of the game is made.

Is there anything prohibiting having two character sheets for the same hero?  That way you could have a 444 and a 345.

Of course, they would be treated as seperate chararcters...

Maybe a Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde thing, but more subtle?

Curiouser and curiouse.

:D

Still wondering about the "legallity" of the whole two different sheet for two characters...

Actually the Capes rulebook does say "In fact, any time that you want to change any character between sessions, you can do so, as long as you end up with a character that still adheres to the character creation rules."

So I guess you could do this between sessions - so I guess the question becomes any reason to not allow this between scenes?

Considering some of the suggestions that have been tossed around here, like statting up different aspects of an entity's personality as different characters (in the Dr. Doom vs. Fantastic Four thread, or for Tony's Dr. Rebecca Achilles in one of the PBPs over at RPGnet), or the whole idea of Robin being both an entry on Batman's sheet and a character in his own right -  I don't think having two different sheets for the same character is all that out of line.

J

Here's a cool idea...

Scene 1:  Play Dr. Evil using character sheet A.  Purposefully get your but handed to you.  Generate debt and story tokens.

Scene 2:  Play Dr. Evil using character sheet B.  Purposefully get your but handed to you.  Generate debt and story tokens.

Scene 3:  Spend 1 story token to play an extra character.  Choose Dr.Evil both sheets.  You now probably have twice the number of story tokens and twice the debt of anyone else and can really put a hurting on those pesky heroes.

That's an evil idea - and by evil, I mean awesome!

Neat.

No-one's mentioned this out yet, so I figure I may as well point out that if your sole concern is effectiveness at winning conflicts, I'm pretty sure the "best" setup is to take three powers, one powered style at rank 5, four unpowered styles at ranks 1 through 4 and four attitudes. That way you maximise the number of checkable abilities while still retaining a fifth-rank power you can use as often as you want to roll any dice except a 6.

Not that I'm actually advocating the position that your sole concern should be effectiveness at winning conflicts, you understand.

Adam,

I'm pretty certain if you take 3 Powers that they have to be numbered 1-3.  You can't just plop a 5 down on them.

The optimal effective setup is to take all the Debt-generating Powers you can and absolutely ape-shit with them.  The benefit of having Debt is way better than the cost of having to roll down a die at the beginning of the Page.  Plus, with Powers you can reuse them every Page and never have to worry about not being able to react to another Player's rolls.

Gaerik wrote:
I'm pretty certain if you take 3 Powers that they have to be numbered 1-3.  You can't just plop a 5 down on them.

Ah... okay.  I misread that.  I will now go hand my head in shame.

Adam wrote:
No-one's mentioned this out yet, so I figure I may as well point out that if your sole concern is effectiveness at winning conflicts, I'm pretty sure the "best" setup is to take three powers, one powered style at rank 5, four unpowered styles at ranks 1 through 4 and four attitudes. That way you maximise the number of checkable abilities while still retaining a fifth-rank power you can use as often as you want to roll any dice except a 6.

Not that I'm actually advocating the position that your sole concern should be effectiveness at winning conflicts, you understand.

Sindyr wrote:
I guess the only thing lacking in this build is the reverse build, 5 powers, 4 Styles, 3 Attitudes gives you the ability to react on a 4 three times per page, whereas the above build gives you the ability to react on a 4 three time the first page you use it, but only once on each subsequent page. (because the non powered abilities will already be checked off.)

Sindyr wrote:
Also, are there any rules about how many and which Styles must be powered when generating a character by hand?  Can I have 5 Styles with no powered Styles, or ALL powered styles, or anywhere in between?

Adam wrote:

Sindyr wrote:
I guess the only thing lacking in this build is the reverse build, 5 powers, 4 Styles, 3 Attitudes gives you the ability to react on a 4 three times per page, whereas the above build gives you the ability to react on a 4 three time the first page you use it, but only once on each subsequent page. (because the non powered abilities will already be checked off.)

Is there a rule I've missed saying you can only use a powered ability once per page? (If not, I don't understand what you mean.)

Sindyr wrote:
Also, are there any rules about how many and which Styles must be powered when generating a character by hand?  Can I have 5 Styles with no powered Styles, or ALL powered styles, or anywhere in between?

Click-n-lock characters will never have more than three powered styles and two unpowered styles, but I don't remember there being anything in the rules for creating your own characters that prohibits all your styles being powered or all being unpowered. Tony's comment upthread kind of implies that you have to retain the balance, though. Unfortunately I don't have my book here at work to check.

Sindyr wrote:
Page 38:
[code]Abilities that give Debt may be used Page after Page, for more and more Debt, though each Ability can only be used once on any given Page.[/code]

*I* missed it the first time, until someone pointed it out to *me*.

Tony, maybe you need to bold this in the next release?

Heh heh.

Summation of current question:

Why create a build thats not:
3 powers
5 styles (with #5 being powered and possibly #4 as well)
4 attitudes

what does any other build have to offer that this one doesn't?  It has:
4 or 5 debt generating powers
powered abilities at levels 1, 2, 3,5, and possibly 4
a maximum of non debt generating ways to act and react

Seems the only thing missing is the ability to react 2x on the same page with powered abilities - but for the first several pages you will have non powered abilities to use as well.

The above build seems clearly superior - is it?

Sindyr wrote:
The above build seems clearly superior - is it?

"Are there any purposes for which another build is more superior?" is I guess what I am asking.

If so, what purposes are significantly better served by some other build, and what build does so?

Thanks

Well, folks have already mentioned the good-loser build.

For another, if you want a low-debt build, to let you compete on goals while generating less debt than your opponents (and, thereby, hopefully receiving more story tokens from them than they receive from you) then you want to top-load your fives and fours with use-once abilities, and push for short, pointed scenes where you can apply that leverage.

That means, generally, that you'll be spending some of those extra story tokens on extra claims, to close off all conflicts and end the scene.  That, in turn, will often mean that you end up with a burgeoning stock of small (value 2 - 4) Inspirations by being the person who resolves second-string conflicts.