Ok, I've taken in all the feedback I think everyone can offer me on my Superheroes game and I've made some serious changes.  My game is no longer called Superheroes for two reasons: 1) the word "superhero" apparently is copywrited and 2) my game is no longer about superheroes.  I've decided to take the advice of several people and expand upon the sample campaign setting I provided in my superheroes game.  For those of you who haven't read it, it deals with demonic possession.

So that's the set-up.  Demons exist.  Through some fickle luck or twist of fate some people are born with a demonic seed in their souls.  This seed, while giving the person incredible power, also comes with a terrible price: the sacrifice of your own soul.  Thus a balance exists in this game, one which you are able to accomplish amazing feats with a wide array of powers and abilities but at the same time you must use these powers sparingly, for if used too often the demon inside you will take a firmer hold.

In my game I'm thinking of including three playable factions: The Marked, The Accepted, and The Hunters.  The Marked are, in my opinion, the most interesting faction in the game.  They are those that possess the demonic seed but try to use their powers for good as opposed to evil.  Many believe in an occult religion which speaks of a chosen one who will purify The Marked and use them to drive back the demons once and for all.  The Marked believe above all things that their beast within can be controlled.  They believe this not only out of principle but also to have some hope that they aren't completely lost, that they have a chance for salvation.  The Accepted are those who have accepted their demonic seed and relish in the power it gives them.  I haven't thought of what I want to be the compensating factor for this faction.  I may just make it more like Vampire where the goal is to work your way up through the ranks while not getting enough attention that another demon kills you to steal your power.  I'm also thinking of making one of the rules of The Accepted is that you don't reveal your presence to normal humans unless you intend to kill them.  The Accepted are pretty much a shadow group that is trying to infiltrate all of human society so they can turn the earth into another hell.  The final group is The Hunters.  These are normal humans who are aware of the fact that demons exist.  The Hunters believe more than anything else that the demons must be destroyed at whatever cost.  Through training and discipline they have learned to fight the demons with formidable might of their own.  The Hunters don't possess powers like The Marked or The Accepted but they do possess some awesome gadgets and weaponry.  Overall they are less powerful then those with the demon seed but at the same time they don't have the same restrictions either.

A big focus on the game will be tactical combat, using a lot of my original combat rules for my superheroes game.  However, I don't want it to just be hack-and-slash.  The other big emphasis will be character conflict.  Moral decision will play a big role with The Hunters; such as if it’s morally right to kill a child who you know possesses the demon seed.  The Accepted have to deal more with strategy, power consolidation, and appeasing those demons that are more powerful than you.  The Marked have major character conflict because of their dual nature.  They desire to use their powers for good but they also know that the origin of their powers are evil.

So yeah, that's what I've got so far.  I'm basically looking for some feedback on these ideas.  Does this game appeal to you?  What would you like to see added to the game?  Do you have any suggestions or ideas as to how I can pull this off?

Reminds me of some concepts from my backburner game, Cancer, I'd suggest some thoughts of incorporating Cancer-specific mechanics with what I tentatively call the CSI engine(Competitive Story Interaction) as seen in Cranium Rats, but I want to know more of your system first.

I'd say Marked and Accepted are cool, Hunters seem to belong to another game using most of the same setting, or kept as NPCs to highlight certain dillemmas. I think the game would benefit greatly from mixing Accepted and Marked, and having some sort of a slider on where you stand between them. Just Marked or just Accepted is either "Human Potential" or "Politicking and subversion", more conflict, more shades.

Are the character still people, that dress in weird outfit, and battle evil in the the street of the city?

I like the twist with the demonic power, but I think you should still have the superhero aspect of the game. It is the combination between these two ideas that can make it interesting.

If you just do the demonic power thing, you risk falling into another category of games that have been done, and overdone, many times.

- Anders

Yeah, I was thinking of having a slider to determine how 'human' you are.  If you slide too much to the negative side then you become and Accepted.  In my original game this resulted in the character being unplayable but I think I want to expand my focus now and have playing a demon an option.

I like the combination of superheroes and demonic possession too and I will try to incorporate those aspects into the game.  However, I'm stuck in the triangle of doom with this problem.  The three points of the triangle of doom are tactical game balance, freedom, and rule complexity.  If I have to compromise on one of them its going to primarily be freedom with a bit of rule complexity.  This is going to result in powers being a bit more constrained then people would expect from a superhero game so I don't want to market it heavily as such.  The big thing I'm focusing on is the demonic possession and the hidden battle that is going on.  This battle manifests itself on the surface as these heroes and villains with powers duking it out in the street, but the populous is clueless as to how people get these powers.

The other thing is that The Marked have is such a wide variety of avenues they can pursue.  They can use their powers to fight demons and save people or they can search for a 'cure' or a concrete way to control the beast within while still allowing them to use their powers.  This is combined by the fact that The Hunters and The Accepted are both after The Marked but for different reasons.  The Hunters want to kill The Marked before they turn completely evil and gain the full use of their powers.  The Accepted see The Marked as their recruitment pool and try to bring as many of them into the flock as they can.  If any of The Marked refuse The Accepted's proposition they are quickly killed because the demons gain power from killing other demons.

So how do superhero elements come up?  Well, the demons thrive on chaos and destruction so they continually try to do as much of both as possible without the populous or the world leaders picking up that there is a greater plan behind all this.  Sometimes the demons don't necessarily work through superhuman channels.  With their wide array of powers they can easily manipulate human minds to further their goal.  Pretty much both The Hunters and The Marked are trying to oppose The Accepted in any way they can.  If they can stop a bank robbery or a hostage situation then not only have they saved innocent lives they've also thwarted the plans of the demons, though on a very small scale.

Consider Rising Stars' "Energy Pool", where one being killed empowers all.

Also, market is as a Demon game with superhero influence and issues creeping through, it's just a question of what you put at the fore.

Hi!
  What if the factions all combined are only like 30% of the total population of demons, and they influence the rest, but not always directly?
  And I disagree about the Hunters, I think they are the most interesting of factions. There is a real moral choice in what they do. Is the demon you are slaying actually serving the greater good? Can this evil demon not be redeemed? etc.
  So the game can be framed in the conflict between 3 groups and each individuals free will, just a thought.
  Its obvious that the Seeded people will have superhuman powers. The question is if they will fit into the traditional superhero genre. I guess this setting kind of sounds like Apokolips or something, so it is possible that you can jimmy it in...
  Sounds like you have a good drive to make a good game and a good direction, keep up the good work!

The thing with the demons is that they thrive on chaos so they're not very organized.  Powerful demons sometimes subject weaker demons to serve them, but all the big guns on the demons side are working independently and often times on their own.  Thus, demon vs. demon conflicts are normal.  The hunters are also not very organized because they are basically just groups of vigilantes who have discovered there are demons out there.  Some small groups of demon hunters of formed and there could even be a secret school of demon hunting if the GM wants to include it, but many hunters are lone people out there fighting demons for whatever reason.  The Marked are also, for the most part, on their own.  They represent such a small minority of the general population that it would be hard for them to find others like them, especially since most of the time they try to keep their powers a secret via their secret identity.

I was also thinking of not making the game simply 'you play a hunter' or 'you play a marked.'  Rather, I want there to be flow between the factions.  Hunters who stay around demons for too long could eventually gain a demonic seed and become a marked.  Marked could eventually succumb to the demon within and become accepted.  Marked could also find some cure for their demonic seed and then become hunters.  Accepted, while rare, could lose control of their human host and become marked.

The big thing I think I will need to balance is the perks and downsides for playing each of the factions.  Hunters would be a less powerful then marked, but they don't have any limit on their abilities.  Hunters would be especially good at fighting accepted because of their demon-specific weaponry and armor, but these items take time and money to make.  Marked would be less powerful then accepted because they haven't gained the full power of their demonic side but they might have fewer restrictions on using their powers depending on who the accepted serves.  Marked would be more powerful then hunters and the hunters abilities wouldn't hurt them as much as an accepted because they aren't completely demonic yet.  Accepted would have a leg up on marked because they wouldn't have to worry about losing their humanity for using their powers but they would have to be careful when dealing with a hunter because of their specialization in fighting demons.

Anyway, keep those ideas coming.  I'll give you a first draft when i get done with it.  By the way, any of you know of a good site that will allow me to easily build a website to host my game?  I don't want to mooch off all of you forever.

Could you explain a little about how you expect the group dynamic to be? Because I see some problem. If all the characters are Hunters, and one of them, doing the game, become a Marked, what happen then? Will that character go out of play?

In general, I would like to hear more about the actual gameplay.

- Anders

Anders wrote:
Could you explain a little about how you expect the group dynamic to be? Because I see some problem. If all the characters are Hunters, and one of them, doing the game, become a Marked, what happen then? Will that character go out of play?

In general, I would like to hear more about the actual gameplay.

- Anders

I wrote up a quick narrative for you to all get a feel of the mood and setting I want for my game as well as the pacing and its emphasis on tactical combat.  The story is about a group of Hunters tracking a Demon and finally moving in for the kill.

The rain poured and the wind howled from our rooftop perch.  The stone gargoyles, rain dripping from their frozen faces, gleamed malevolently at us with each stroke of white lightening that pierced the darkened sky as if they knew what we had intended for this night.  Silently we waited, watching the throngs of ignorant people move along the streets, oblivious of the evil that lurked in their midst.

Time passed slowly on the rooftop.  The rain penetrated through our composite armor, soaking us to the bone.  Our bones began to grow stiff from the cold, our faces so numb that we no longer felt the steady drops of water from our brow.  The night was beginning to look like a waste when we spotted our prey, moving through the crowds with the same worn expression on his face as all the others.  To any other person, he would have just been another guy.  Our gem confirmed our worst fears, pulsing orange with a soft glow.

“He’s a big one,” Marcus commented, idly palming the hilt of his Daisho.

“Alright everyone,” I murmured quietly over another blast of thunder.  “This is what we’ve been waiting for.  Take him fast before he has a chance to use his powers, we all want to get home alive tonight.”

Our prey turned down a nearby alleyway and we moved in pursuit, jumping from rooftop to rooftop with silent ease.  We slowly began to tighten the noose around him, positioning ourselves to attack from all sides.  He seemed oblivious to our presence but it could all just be a ploy to turn surprise back in his favor.

Our prey approached the door to his back alley office, reaching into the pocket of his trench coat for his keys.  I had watched him do it so many times before this night that it seemed as if I was watching a repeat of a movie I had seen a dozen times before.  I motioned silently for our group to spring our trap, knowing that it would take our prey at least a minute to open the four deadbolts that guarded his residence.  I cocked an arrow in my composite bow, waiting in the shadows for the right time to strike.

Marcus was the first to reach the target, jumping down from a ledge behind the trench coat clad figure.  The figure began to turn, realizing he wasn’t alone.  Marcus wasted no time in attacking with his Daisho, aiming for a killer blow.  With stunning speed the figure blocked the blade with his wrist and any notion that this man was just a man disappeared.  Using his free arm, the creature smashed his fist into Marcus, sending him flying into a nearby dumpster with a loud crash.  Daniel was next to strike, peppering the creature with fire from his silenced gun from the safety of his own perch a rooftop away.  The creature roared in pain, turning to face his pesky adversary.  With a slight movement of his wrist a ball of glowing energy appeared in his hand.  Chuckling with evil glee he threw the ball at Daniel, which exploded upon impact with the edge of the roof.  Thrown from his perch Daniel fell, the ground quickly approaching.  With catlike grace Daniel removed his grappling hook and threw, wrapping it around the fire escape and slowing his descent enough that the fall did not turn deadly.

With Daniel now on his level, the creature pressed his advantage, moving quickly to attack him.  Daniel drew is twin blades in a flash of silvered steel and attacked as the creature drew close, slicing him with skilled strokes.  This did little but enrage the beast more and with a massive swing he struck back at Daniel.  Daniel avoided the blow and the creature’s fist slammed into the wall behind him, shattering the brick as if it were glass.

The creature’s back now facing me and sensing my opportunity I drew back my bow and fired.  The arrow flew true, striking the target and injected the lethal dose of sanctified oil that I had placed on the tip.  The creature howled in pain and before he could turn I placed two more arrows between his shoulder blades.  The second pierced his spinal cord and the creature collapsed in a puddle facedown.  His blood began to saturate the pool immediately, adding a sprinkle of color to this drab and dark night.

I quickly descended from the rooftop, my clawed gloves easily gripping the rough brick walls of the building.  I moved to check on Marcus, who hadn’t moved since he hit the dumpster.  He had a pulse but it was fading fast.  Daniel quickly ran over to my side.  “How is he?”  Daniel inquired.

“Not good,” I replied grimly.  “I can’t treat him here.  Get the car and we’ll move back to base.”  I cursed under my breath as Daniel left, “If we keep losing men on a one to one ratio with these monsters we’re never going to win this war.”

Consider the characters moving in a perpendicular way. Their paths intersect but they aren't together all the time. This way you can play a Marked and the Hunters that chase him, you can show how both react to the same event, etc.

Thunder_God wrote:
Consider the characters moving in a perpendicular way. Their paths intersect but they aren't together all the time. This way you can play a Marked and the Hunters that chase him, you can show how both react to the same event, etc.

One thing you should be careful of is, what makes a cool setting for a story, does not necessarily makes a cool setting for a game.

A good thing to do is lay out the conflicts in the setting, because, mostly, it will be these conflict the characters (and players) will use time on. Try to write down all the important element in the setting (organizations, characters, NPCs, story points etc.), and map out the conflicts (and maybe other relations) between these. Now look at it from a players point of view. Where will the players spend their time and what will they be concerned with? And then ask yourself if this is what you want out of the game? Will these conflicts ruin the fun for some of the players? Will the conflicts you see as important be interesting for the players?

It is not that I think you necessarily are doing anything wrong here, I actually like many of the ideas in you setting, but it may be a good idea to focus on how all this work in actual play, before you begin focusing on the system.

Complexity can be an enemy here, so I would suggest that you start by focusing on one character type (properly the Marked) and make that really interesting to play, and just keep the two others as NPCs. Later you can then work on making the Hunters and the Accepted interesting character types too.

btw, for a website you may want to take a look at pages.google.com. I have not tried it myself, but it look interesting.

- Anders

Seems like Google Pages is currently not accepting new accounts, on the Waiting List we go! :(

Anders wrote:
One thing you should be careful of is, what makes a cool setting for a story, does not necessarily makes a cool setting for a game.

A good thing to do is lay out the conflicts in the setting, because, mostly, it will be these conflict the characters (and players) will use time on. Try to write down all the important element in the setting (organizations, characters, NPCs, story points etc.), and map out the conflicts (and maybe other relations) between these. Now look at it from a players point of view. Where will the players spend their time and what will they be concerned with? And then ask yourself if this is what you want out of the game? Will these conflicts ruin the fun for some of the players? Will the conflicts you see as important be interesting for the players?

It is not that I think you necessarily are doing anything wrong here, I actually like many of the ideas in you setting, but it may be a good idea to focus on how all this work in actual play, before you begin focusing on the system.

Complexity can be an enemy here, so I would suggest that you start by focusing on one character type (properly the Marked) and make that really interesting to play, and just keep the two others as NPCs. Later you can then work on making the Hunters and the Accepted interesting character types too.

btw, for a website you may want to take a look at pages.google.com. I have not tried it myself, but it look interesting.

- Anders

Consider NOT having things like Will balanced across the Factions.
When you move a Faction you may find yourself altered wildly, your fortes disappearing and new ones appearing in their steads, or just becoming weaker.

Thunder_God wrote:
Consider NOT having things like Will balanced across the Factions.
When you move a Faction you may find yourself altered wildly, your fortes disappearing and new ones appearing in their steads, or just becoming weaker.