In this thread folks are talking about accomodating herbivorous diets.

Bah, I say.  Our ancestors didn't spend 100,000 years clawing their way to the top of the food chain so we could eat plants...why its practically anti-human.

All human achievement derives from eating meat.

Why did we invent fire?  So we could have barbequed spare ribs of course.
Why did we invent language?  So we could sit around talking about the one that got away.
Why did we invent tools?  So we could transform the flesh of inferior creatures into really bitching leather jackets.
Why did we invent weapons?  So we could get our meat fresh instead of half rancid lying on the ground
Why did we invent the wheel?  So we could get our fresh meat back to the cave before the maggots set in.
Why did we invent spices? For those times when we didn't make it.
Why did we domesticate animals?  So we wouldn't have to go so far for take-out
Why did we invent agriculture?  To give our domesticated animals something to do when we weren't eating them
Why did we invent refrigeration?  Because sometimes the wheel just wasn't fast enough...this then led to ice cream.  So even those hippy tree huggers Ben and Jerry owe their commercial empire to carnivores.

Yup...without eating meat we'd all still be tree swinging monkeys ;-)

Meat-eating swinging monkeys!

Indeed, it is true! We required meat in our evolutionary pattern, but now, alas, despite the wonderful taste of pork chops, that evolution has moved us beyond the need to cannabalize living flesh for energy and nutrients. Unfortunately, there are still throwbacks among us, and Ralph presents an excellent case-study of why these vicious, lying meat-eaters must be enslaved and put to work for we evolved homo vegetarians. Perhaps eventually, through a careful breeding progrom, we can genetically remove our cousins own need for meat. Until then, they will provide useful man-labor until their cholestorol clogged hearts explode and their corpses are churned into fertilizer for the hydroponic fields.

I believe that, in Heaven, there will be bacon trees.  That way I will be able to enjoy bacon without something having to die for me to enjoy it.

I'm not sure how serious I am about this.

I'm a total omnivore now, but have been a vegetarian for some 8 years. I only changed when I went to Japan, where everyone eats meat IN VERY SMALL AMOUNTS AS A SIDE-ITEM (and not as a huge lump "without meat in the middle of my plate it's not a meal" thing like we do in the US), and after about 4 years of that I loosened up a lot, started eating pot stickers and some pork. When I got back to the US, I still kept those eating habits. Last time I ate "steak" I ended having those nasty, smelly meat-shits that reminded me of why I left that behind, so I went back to Light on the Meat Only.

But anyway, here's the standard retort:
Carnivores have all canine teeth. We have four such teeth of some 30-something (34?). This resembles herbivores with the capacity to eat meat, rather than true omnivores.
Carnivores and Herbivores have huge differences in molarity of stomach acid (carnivores have much higher). We fall in line with herbivores.
Carnivores have very small intestinal length (usually a straight line from stomach-to-ass, with maybe a loop or two), while our intestines look much more like a cow's.

So, that's just some science.
For me, I just get ill thinking about all the resources wasted when making all that fucking meat for our fatlander food chains. Not only that, like people will eat the nastiest grade-D meat covered with sauces and shit and think nothing of it, as long as it's somewhat cheap. It takes so much more energy to cultivate, transport, store etc that meat, far more than vegetables.

I'm no hippie, though I don't go hunting or anything like that. I'm not all about the poor animal's feelings or not using animals for testing (though I oppose CRUEL treatment of animals, which the dairy/veal/meat industry is FAR worse at than medical companies and labs and the like), but man, when looking at the amount of shit we waste in the US in spite of having so much (and getting fatter and fatter), it kinda grosses me out to think about eating a lot of meat, especially when the result of such a diet you can see everywhere around you.

But yeah, I think the main reason I stopped eating it back in the day (and why I almost flipped again recently) is because I was in a gourmet foods class, where you actually get more hands-on in preparation of food, and just seeing shit like animal heads, the ribs on the animal so they look like real ribs like what we have inside of us, etc, it kinda just made me ill. I think a lot of people would have the same reaction if they cleaned their own food every once in a while rather than just buying it pre-cleaned at the store or at the restaurant.

Finally, I gotta say that I was at my healthiest when I was a vegetarian (and also doing hardcore martial arts and shit). I gained almost 50-60 pounds in the 8 years since I gave that up. about 15 pounds of that gain was from my wife's awesome cooking (primarily veg-based), and maybe another 10 because I work I.T. and don't work out as much... but I don't doubt that the rest comes from my shitty diet habits and lack of exercise...

-Andy

Herbivores are okay as long as I don't have to cook for them. I lose so much depth of flavor when I don't have the option of using animal fats and fonds as ingredients.

Heya,

Bah, I say.  Our ancestors didn't spend 100,000 years clawing their way to the top of the food chain so we could eat plants...why its practically anti-human.

I'm not a vegetarian. FAR from it. Well-prepared meat is one of my great pleasures.

But Andy is so right. The amount of resources wasted (in the US especially) to produce meat is appalling. The amount of poverty that could be alleviated by those resources boggles the mind.

I would gladly give up my steak if it meant parts of Africa were no longer starving.

Shreyas wrote: I lose so much depth of flavor when I don't have the option of using animal fats and fonds as ingredients.

Andy wrote:
But anyway, here's the standard retort:
Carnivores have all canine teeth. We have four such teeth of some 30-something (34?). This resembles herbivores with the capacity to eat meat, rather than true omnivores.
Carnivores and Herbivores have huge differences in molarity of stomach acid (carnivores have much higher). We fall in line with herbivores.
Carnivores have very small intestinal length (usually a straight line from stomach-to-ass, with maybe a loop or two), while our intestines look much more like a cow's.

So, that's just some science.

Oh my God.

Carnivores have all canine teeth. We have four such teeth of some 30-something (34?). This resembles herbivores with the capacity to eat meat, rather than true omnivores.
Carnivores and Herbivores have huge differences in molarity of stomach acid (carnivores have much higher). We fall in line with herbivores.
Carnivores have very small intestinal length (usually a straight line from stomach-to-ass, with maybe a loop or two), while our intestines look much more like a cow's.

So, that's just some science.

Troy_Costisick wrote:
-A man after my own heart, Val.

Ron wrote:
That is the worst excuse for science I've seen in a long time.
...
I mean, talk about Naturalistic Fallacy bullshit from the get-go, and then they can't even get the Natural right.

Oh, that's right. This is the internet.

All right, I'll feed you some veggie food this weekend, you big dork.

Best, Ron

This is where my wife would declare, "It's not science, it's Science!" The kind of mangled scientification used by Doc Savage (who my wife insists on calling Smug Bastard) and other pulp heroes.

Ron wrote:
All right, I'll feed you some veggie food this weekend, you big dork.

TonyLB wrote:

Troy_Costisick wrote:
-A man after my own heart, Val.

Funny in context!

Now, I have nothing against feeding meat to the carnivores among us...
...sooooo, I'll just kill you one at a time and fry up your hearts for each other!! Yes! It's the perfect plan!

I won't be able to do anything so clever with the last meat-eater remaining, though, for obvious reasons. I haven't decided if I'll just kill you after feeding you the other last carnivore's heart, or taunt you mercilessly from behind the safety of an electrified fence. It depends on how much you amuse and/or annoy me. Perhaps I could just feed you salads from that point on and make you kill yourself? Oh well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I think I'll keep Ron's brain in a jar though, and consult it on occasion with mediums and telepaths (just to annoy his spirit, you understand, because it will give me a special pleasure to imagine him ranting -- GAWD DAMNIT, that's not SCIENCE! THEY'RE FRAUDS! -- and I will smile and pet my brain-jar lovingly. I mention this now given the possibility a) he may not believe in an afterlife and b) he may be right about "a", so that he will know it's coming and I can annoy him NOW as he thinks about my doing it).

mmmm....Ron's Brain....

Valamir wrote: mmmm....Ron's Brain....

Valamir wrote:
mmmm...Troy's Heart...

Valamir wrote:
mmmm....Ron's Brain....

I don't care if its meat or not as long as it is deep fried.

Peter wrote:
I don't care if its meat or not as long as it is deep fried.

I really don't get the defensiveness around vegetarians.

yrs--
--Ben

Check it out!  I can edit.  Hah.

Ben wrote: I really don't get the defensiveness around vegetarians.

TonyLB wrote:

Valamir wrote:
mmmm...Troy's Heart...

Valamir wrote:
mmmm....Ron's Brain....

And the cowardly lion's courage?

GreatWolf wrote:
I believe that, in Heaven, there will be bacon trees.

I am not that scientific, that's why I just do something.

Anyway, try this, you scientific researchers: http://www.thepaleodiet.com/    ... !

Everytime I change my diet I get obsessive and my body reacts very positive. But since I am on this paleo I have never had this amounts of energy and power. (for almost 1 1/2 years now).

And I know my shit when it comes down to diets. (nearly 20 years of hardcoretraining in sports). Hell I was feed by freaky juicy GDR-coaches, who would like to see me becoming a muscle-shark with... hell, I don't know.

No, really. Try this out. It is good, but expensive. And it keeps you healthy.

Dirk

greyorm wrote:

Ben wrote: I really don't get the defensiveness around vegetarians.

Isn't it obvious, Ben? Vegetarians are defensive around carnivores because we're worried they might eat us.

Unless you mean why are carnivores defensive around vegetarians? That I don't know.

I suspect it has something to do with an inferiority complex, you know: recognition that we are a more highly evolved and moral form of human while they're still wallowing in the stone age. Since on some level they know this, they react strongly to our mere presence as everything they are not. That can breed a lot of bitterness.

Marhault wrote:

GreatWolf wrote:
I believe that, in Heaven, there will be bacon trees.

Seth, I almost just spit water all over my keyboard.

greyorm wrote:

Ben wrote: I really don't get the defensiveness around vegetarians.

Isn't it obvious, Ben? Vegetarians are defensive around carnivores because we're worried they might eat us.

Unless you mean why are carnivores defensive around vegetarians? That I don't know.

TonyLB wrote:
Because you are what you eat?

I've been vegetarian for over a year now and the main reason I started is not to protect the animals, but because of all the hormones and crap that we have in our food these days.  I must say I do feel healthier and my sense of taste is better I'm sure.  However I am still 2 and a half stones overweight, ice cream is a vegetable right!!??