Greetings good forum-goers,

In the game that I have been working on over the last 2 years (Twilight of the Gods, or just Twilight for short) I have developed three different goals for encouraging players to return to the game. Each goal is aimed at a particular length of gameplay: a single session, a campaign, and the life of the character.

However, I am curious as to if this will alienate players, rather than encourage them, since to fully experience the game one would have to devote more time.

To give some basic background information, the game itself is designed around the idea of player’s creating and controlling their own mythological-like gods in order to create a sense of gameplay akin to mythologies. Indeed, ideally someone could take a transcript from a gaming session and, with a little work, turn it into a decent modern myth.

Since each session and campaign will lead towards the character-life goal, it seems proper to discuss that one first. As gods, each character is fated to die at the Twilight of the Gods (basically, I stole the idea of Ragnarok from Norse Mythology). In order for this to happen, certain steps or “links” in the chain of fate must be fulfilled. For example, Thor must obtain his sacred hammer, Mjolnir, and the Midgard serpent must be born (and indeed, it must survive) in order for him to die at the Twilight of the Gods. Each of those events is then a link (and potential session/campaign plot). However, characters can also choose to deny fate and attempt to break those links (destroying Mjolnir, or killing the Midgard serpent prior to Ragnarok). Whichever path a player decides to take, as these links are fulfilled or broken, the end of the world draws closer. If enough links of fate are broken, a character can actually survive the end of the world. Each link has two benefits for when it has been addressed. If fulfilled, it provides the god with a huge boost in power (example: after obtaining Mjolnir, Thor has the best of weapons at his disposal. Look out frost giants). However, if the link is broken then the god gets a little more control over fate itself. Thus, under certain circumstances that god may circumvent almost all rules in order to achieve a desired goal. For example, say that he is almost dead and an enemy gets in a deathblow. The player can just say “it was not fated to be” and POOF! Instead of a deathblow the hit now misses and the god is back to (near) perfect health. Or, conversely, an evil god is about to flee into another realm, escaping the player/character’s wrath. By just saying “it was fated to be” the player/gods opponent is captured.

For campaign goals, each god has a general pool of worshippers. Indeed, these people represent the physical “experience points” of the god. When a player wishes to increase a god’s strength or some such, “worshippers” must be devoted to that. Since these people are physically represented in the game, it is possible for a god to loose power if enough of his worshippers are killed (player’s must put the date and time that an attribute as added/advanced, so that if the worshippers are killed off or converted to another faith the most recently added traits are lost). This is, obviously, undesirable so that over campaigns gods will have the general desire to promote the welfare of their people. This means that they need to advance their worshippers culturally and protect them in warfare. On one hand, a god might give his worshippers certain law codes to promote internal peace (thus fewer are killed off in internal fighting) while at the same time leading them into wars of conquest in order to expand their domain (and in turn the number of believers). Worshippers also can produce Heroes (essentially, human familiars) that can help the gods in various situations.

Over a single session, like in most other RPGs, a god merely wants to accomplish the goals set out by the GM. Usually this will involve performing amazing feats (which in turn encourages converts). A single session might involve a god stopping another from attempting to invade his or her realm, or it might involve a god attempting to fulfill (or break) one of his links in the chain of fate. Indeed, almost any plot that one can imagine for other games is available for this goal.

Thus, once again, would the inclusion of these three goals alienate new players or would it encourage players to return to the game again and again? If the former, is there a way that I might be able to readjust them in order to encourage repeat play? Indeed, in general, are there problems that I have not considered with this system or ways to improve it?

Thank you for your time.

~Sincerely,

Joel

This is certainly an interesting game.

As I see it, the players will return to a game again and again, if they feel that they are making an difference; that they can influence the game in some way. To have some clear goal for what the character should do, make it easier for the player to know how they can influence the game. So I don't think that you have any problem there.

There are of course some player that don't like the game to dictate what their character should do, but you can not please anyone.

And just one question: Is there some restriction on how often a player can say "it was not fated to be"?

- Anders

Joel:

I think the worshipper idea makes things especially appealling, and will have the players coming back for more. The separate goals lead to some interesting possibles scenarios that could play out over many game sessions: I could see the characters having to make some interesting choices, like: go out and slay the ogre hag of Malvorn Forrest in order to win the heart of the Vorn River Maiden (leading to the requirements for Twilight) OR defend the Stronghold of Nom, home of 10,000 worshipers, against invaders from the Eastern Wastes. If you choose to win the Maiden, what happens to Nom (and thus your abilities?) Do you then have to swear revenge against the Wasteland tribes? If you defend Nom, what of the Maiden? Does the Hag grow more powerful?

I think you're on to something here! I like it very much, and look forward to seeing more!

-Steve

Depending on pacing you can alternate Session and Campaign goals.
The Odyssey can be both played out in a session and as a whole campaign.

Campaign goals being worshippers? Not necessarily, protecting your city against one attack is probably a session goal, where taking over another society(crushing Rome) can be a Campaign goal, almost a game goal as when the empire falls so do its gods!

In order to "Win" all of it, just draw the scale on what is a campaign and life-time, if you say Campaign=5 sessions, lifetime=5 Campaigns then it's possible for people to know where they are headed as opposed to Campaign=20 sessions, lifetime=10 Campaigns, where only the most ardent and lucky players will get to still play at the Twilight.

If you want people to be happy, and the whole game is about reaching Twilight, you should let them reach it.
Consider having a "Fast-mode", where people zoom over sessions and campaigns in order to reach the Twilight?

Very very cool idea, I'm going to steal some of those ideas for Slime Octopi and Coral, I'll especially like to see your Worshipper management rules and see how they will differ from my (yet unwritten) Humanity Control rules.

Thank you everyone for your comments. I am glad that some of these concepts seem interesting.

It is my intent with these goals to direct gameplay towards a sort of epic struggle. By knowing that everything is directing a character towards a certain end, “this one doom” (to quote a book/movie), then (hopefully) everything will take on a more dramatic tone.

Anders, there is a limit on how often players can say “it was not fated to be.” No one starts out with a Fate Point, but after breaking fate the god’s max number of Fate Points is raised by one (or, if it is a really critical link in fate that results in other links breaking, more). Thus, a god will start out with 0/0 points, but after breaking Fate they’ll have 1/1, and after using it 0/1. All Fate Points are regained after a certain event (usually after a single session or after major plot points in a campaign). Originally I was leaning towards a one-use only sort of system, but I realized that for the amount of power that breaking a Link of Fate places outside the character’s grasp, they need something truly powerful and useful to make it somewhat worth their while. I suspect that most players would intentionally Break with Fate at least once. While these points allow for a lot of control over conflict resolution, one could also use them to force a desired story line. For example, if a player wanted to confront his/her next Link of Fate, but the GM wasn’t planning on bringing that up any time soon, then a player could say “It is fated that I find a clue as to where I might obtain *insert person/objects name*.”  Technically, the GM would be required to provide that clue and allow the character to pursue it.

Steve, those are some great questions that had not occurred to me before. I suppose your situation would depend on what exactly the gods “Link of Fate” was. For example, if the Link went something along the lines of “Odg, the god of the Epeopl tribe, must kill Usans, the Ogre Hag who lives in Malvorn Forrest, before the Twilight of the Gods,” then I suspect that nothing special would happen (of course, this would be up to the GM). When the god would eventually face her, the GM would be encouraged to have upped her power relatively (the game isn’t big on stock baddies). However, there could be the possibility that some other Hero would come along and kill the hag, thus technically breaking fate (since Odg wasn’t the one to kill her). However, if the Link of Fate went something a little more along the lines of “Odg, the god of the Epeopl tribe, must win the heart of the Vorn River Maiden before the Twilight of the Gods,” and the hag intended to kill her, then failing to save her then might result in a seemingly breakage of fate. However, I really want to encourage the GM to be crafty in conning players into fulfilling fate (since, in a way, the GM and the rules represent Fate). Thus, it might be that later Odg encounters Usans the hag again in a contest and if he wins then he literally gets the heart of this Vorn River Maiden. Possibly from there Ogd might go and resurrect the dead maiden (hey, he is a god after all).

Of course, failing to defend the Stronghold of Nom could be just as bad. Beyond just loosing those 10,000 followers, others might turn away from worshipping the god since it did little good for the defenders. Thus, the god would actually get a worshipper “leak” and his people would be set up for further attacks. A player would have to subtract those abilities most recently added until the total cost of the remaining abilities was equal or below the total number of remaining worshippers.

Guy, you make a good point about letting players reach the Twilight of the Gods. Luckily, I have considered the same thing to a point (though I had to give it more thought just now). Perhaps labeling the three goals as “session” “campaign” and “lifetime” were a little misleading. Since worshippers translate into a god’s power (being essentially a complex form of experience points), a player who uses a god time and time again will inherently help his/her worshippers. This is still character development, but by giving a manifestation of this development, not only does a god gain cool powers but he can also have a nice little (or large) empire to show for his efforts.

As for Twilight itself, that is dependent on two things: The individual character’s Chain of Fate, and the Twilight’s Chain of Fate (yes, the event has one too, though that is controlled by the GM). Each Chain is composed of Links, that is, single events, but they can be almost any size. The absolute minimum is 1 Link: “This god must survive until the Twilight of the Gods.” Technically, if a god dies then it breaks utterly with fate. If that is all a player/GM/group wants, they can play with that. However, I would hope (and I encourage) players to create much more extensive Chains of Fate. Not all Links even have to be established at Character Creation (though most of them should be, so that they can interact in gameplay), they can be added later. Thus, Twilight of the Gods can come right away or take several months or even years (for the amazingly dedicated players).

The Chain of Fate for the Twilight of the Gods is a somewhat special case in that even if an individual god is ready for the end of the world, the end might not come. Twilight’s chain should include several events such as “There must be an unnatural winter lasting three years, called the Fimblewinter.” Until that winter has happened, the end of the world can’t take place.

I am particularly glad to hear that you like the concept of Worshippers. They are an aspect of the game that has always seemed necessary but oh so difficult to implement. For example, should worshippers expand due to population growth and if so, then how can that be modeled in-game? Should a god help advance his worshipper’s culture? and so on and so forth. At one I had more rules for governing worshippers than I did for every other aspect of the game combined. Now I treat them almost as a mini-character with its own stats and abilities. These cover fairly basic things that directly influence the god or the god’s use for the people. For example, if the people make daily sacrifices then the god recovers its energy at a faster rate (as opposed to occasional rites). Or if a people give human sacrifices, that stunts their growth a little but provides more energy to the god. Of course, if the god happens to be of the Aztec/Incan pantheon (Twilight’s version of race) then that god actually would need human sacrifices just to stay alive.

Once again, thank you everyone for your responses. They are quite helpful, and I hope my extend comments were interesting as well.

~Sincerely,
Joel

Perhaps differentiate from a "Link Breaking" and a "Link Snap"?

Link Breaking is when the god intentionally breaks his link. Link snapping is when the character is destined to do something, something he wants, but tries to do so and fails. Like trying to save his people from the Frost Giants but going to save the maiden instead, etc.