Topic: Cutthroat v4.0
Started by: Troy_Costisick
Started on: 4/10/2006
Board: Endeavor
On 4/10/2006 at 10:37pm, Troy_Costisick wrote:
Cutthroat v4.0
Heya,
I have the latest, and likely the last public, draft of Cutthroat ready for feedback. You can dowload it here: Cutthroat
Here are the latest changes I've made (PS, thanks for the feedback everyone!):
1. Made the headlines and sections more uniform in formating.
2. Clarified rules for Markers.
3. Clarified numerous rules concerning the Rat (including death, imprisonment, secrets, etc.)
4. Clarified rules for certain jobs.
5. Changed "Stat" to "Status" throughout the text to be consistent with aims of the game.
6. Revised rules for "Desires"
7. Enhanced text explaining what kinds of rolls are called for in different situations
8. Revised bonuses for Bragging slightly
9. Revised Custom Bike rules
Here's what I'd like for you guys to look for:
1. Spelling and grammar mistakes
2. Clarity in the rules especially for Bragging, Custom Bikes, Challenges, and Markers.
3. Legibility of the Custom Bike table.
4. Suggestions on how to improve the character sheets
I greatly appreciate all your help :)
Peace,
-Troy
On 4/11/2006 at 6:32am, Ramidel wrote:
Re: Cutthroat v4.0
::looks at the Custom Bikes again::
Game theory analysis: Mad Dog's Hogs is strictly superior to Black Steel Choppers and Durin County Choppers, since only one player can oppose Mad Dog's while any number can oppose the other two. On a less game-theory note, the garages have lost their "character."
Nitpick: You can't do a job for any garage other than Durin County, under the "jobs" rules. Holdover from the last set?
The rules say "if the Bikers stay after a Raid is called off, things become a little more dangerous." The rules never do get around to explaining that though...
Finally, if a Biker is wounded and Wanted already (and if he's wounded he probably -is- wanted...), is there any penalty for failing a medical Job?
On 4/11/2006 at 7:11am, Ramidel wrote:
RE: Re: Cutthroat v4.0
Had to take a hard look at the Rat's power to decide the Best Bragger, and there was really only one thing I could come up with...
It's a power. This is how the Rat becomes Top Dog. He's a toady of the other bikers, praising them in return for favors. He really -has- no reason to do anything but try to keep everyone else equal for long enough for him to become the highest-Stat in the bunch. Furthermore, given how wimpy the little guy is, he has to if he wants to win.
Under the last ruleset, the Rat had a game-plan from the beginning. Get locked up, -stay- locked up as long as he can (though I imagine the other bikers are going to want the shrimp out of the clink), build beef, spread Stat in exchange for Markers, cash or just to keep the gang balanced, and wait till he had enough Stat to start challenging for Top Dog. (And of course, anyone who dominated him would instantly stop gaining Stat till the tables turned.)
If that sort of toadying can't be done and the Rat can't surrender Approaches for Markers...well, the Rat has no chance and neither do the other little guys. Everyone -will- pound the little Rat's backside into the ground and take the secrets first chance they get. The guy with the highest starting Status -will- stay on top, barring him being a very poor bragger, since he will have less stretching-the-truth to do, he will be the first to get the better Bikes, he'll be able to satisfy his Girl more and be able to make better use of her...in short, the strong get stronger, the weak perish and it sucks to be the Rat. Thematic? Yes. But I believe the game could be more interesting if the Rat's status as a toady could be made more useful to him without damaging the value of one's chest-beating. (Secrets-for-Markers may be a good option to permit if the Rat's expected to "play fair" on the bragging part.)
Just some thoughts on the little guy.
On 4/11/2006 at 10:01am, Troy_Costisick wrote:
RE: Re: Cutthroat v4.0
Heya,
Excellent feedback, Ramdiel! Let me see if I can answer your questions for ya :)
Game theory analysis: Mad Dog's Hogs is strictly superior to Black Steel Choppers and Durin County Choppers, since only one player can oppose Mad Dog's while any number can oppose the other two.
-Not entirely accurate. Only one player may play a police officer, the other players can play regular NPCs to oppose the job. However, the rules aren't clear here. So I appreciate you pointing that out :)
Nitpick: You can't do a job for any garage other than Durin County, under the "jobs" rules. Holdover from the last set?
-Yeah, it was.
The rules say "if the Bikers stay after a Raid is called off, things become a little more dangerous." The rules never do get around to explaining that though...
-Well, heh, once a Raid is called off, most Bikers go home. If a Biker isn't in a Raid, his player can start playing Police. This is why it's dangerous. It's a subtl comment, but it's meant to be.
Finally, if a Biker is wounded and Wanted already (and if he's wounded he probably -is- wanted...), is there any penalty for failing a medical Job?
-Nah, he just goes home if he fails. But the next time someone could always play a Police officer and that's where the danger comes in.
Under the last ruleset, the Rat had a game-plan from the beginning. Get locked up, -stay- locked up as long as he can (though I imagine the other bikers are going to want the shrimp out of the clink), build beef, spread Stat in exchange for Markers, cash or just to keep the gang balanced, and wait till he had enough Stat to start challenging for Top Dog. (And of course, anyone who dominated him would instantly stop gaining Stat till the tables turned.)
-Well, in playtesting this strategy was a near guarantee of the Rat winning. I haven't posted all my playtests (just not enough time in my schedule) so it may be hard to recognize that just by reading the text. Anyway, the Rat should have an equal shot at winning. Not a greater or lesser one. The new rules for Bragging and Markers takes away the absurdly easy road to victory. To win at Cutthroat, you should have to take risks. Sitting in Jail, taking Markers, and choosing Braggers based on Status instead of actual Bragging because it's more tactically advantageous violates the spirit of this particular game. In another version with a different set of design goals, it would rock. But for Cutthroat, the game is about violence, backstabbing, cock-punching, and opportunism. The one thing it's not about is turtling :)
-So anyway, awesome feedback! You are a very observant reader, Ramdiel. I very much appreciate your feedback. Thanks! :)
Peace,
-Troy
On 4/11/2006 at 11:25pm, Ramidel wrote:
RE: Re: Cutthroat v4.0
-Nah, he just goes home if he fails. But the next time someone could always play a Police officer and that's where the danger comes in.
Danger..? I must make note of the fact that this remains nondangerous as the rules are written.
Anyone opposing the Job must play a Police Officer. ... If any officer succeeds, the Biker is chased out of town without his wound being treated and becomes Wanted.
No danger whatever for a Wanted man. Next time he goes, if he loses again...he'll be chased out of town again.
Troy: You're welcome, and I'm glad to be of assistance.