I'm trying to get the hang of TSOY, so I've created two keys to express the personality of an old D&D character of mine.

Key of Disrespect
Your character likes to behave disrespectfully
Gain 1 XP every time you blatantly disregard common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
Gain 3 XP every time you do the above, knowing that it entails severe consequences or risks.
Buyoff: Make an obvious effort to behave yourself and mean it.

Do you think the "and mean it" part is necessary? Or should I rather ditch the "obvious" part? Buying off a key is a dramatic personality change and as such, if your character tries to behave himself, but fails and nobody even notices that he tried, he should still be able to buy off the key, right?

In the same vein, what about player vs. character knowledge here? If the character has reason to believe the king will have him thrown into the dungeons if he doesn't bow down, but the player knows the king probably won't, what's the deal? Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

Key of Recklessness
Your character likes to act recklessly.
Gain 1 XP every time you throw caution to the wind despite a possible risk or drawback.
Gain 3 XP every time you throw caution to the wind despite a great risk or drawback.
Buyoff: Act with obvious caution.

In the D&D game this character was in, I was often frustrated by endless debates about how to approach a situation. I built a character with maximum survivability (e.g. lots of hit points) and then proceeded to just end deliberations by walking down the unexplored corridor, pressing the button, charging out of hiding etc. I triggered traps left and right and took a lot of hits, but I loved every minute of it. Whenever our current D&D game stalls, I miss this old character.

The above may sound as if I was being an asshole in playing this character -- it sure sounds like that to me. The dynamics of that game are for another post and another day though. As far as TSOY is concerned, I don't see any problems with these keys.

I have to admit that many of the keys in the rules left me cold, but now that I've done this little exercise, I'm positively burning with desire to play TSOY. I think I may be starting to grok the whole Key concept.

Regards

Hal

First, please excuse me while I steal those Keys. They're very cool. :-)

Regarding the Key of Disrespect: From the rulebook:

TSoY wrote:
All Keys have a Buyoff, which is a reversal from the Key by the character. This Buyoff occurs only when you, the player, wants it to happen.

You have everything well on hand. A short answer about character vs. player knowledge: key-wise a situation carries risks or sacrifices only if the player knows it so. If the character thinks it's so but the player knows the situation is safe, that's not enough to warrant a higher reward. Likewise, a reward is not docked just because a character is ignorant. Because the player makes all the decisions, it's the player knowledge that matters, always.

The only exception, actually, are some rare non-motivational ("dramaturgic") keys that deal with character feelings. For instance, if a non-motivational key gave you five xp for the character turning against his own people without knowing about it ("The Key of Tragedy" or something like that), then it would be character knowledge that mattered, and not the player knowledge. The key would only be triggered by unknowing action, but the player could still direct his character into a situation that resulted in such. The difference between motivational and dramaturgic keys is very much in whether the key concerns player decisions or events happening in the fiction. The character knowledge is all about the latter.

Hi, :)

Halzebier wrote: what about player vs. character knowledge here? If the character has reason to believe the king will have him thrown into the dungeons if he doesn't bow down, but the player knows the king probably won't, what's the deal? Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

Halzebier wrote: Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

I'm with John on the knowledge thing.  XP for TSOY keys come from events that the players create.  It doesn't matter if the characters know or not.

I do have one concern for both the Keys in the first post -- they both strike me as personality quirks rather than Keys.  I understood that the purpose of Keys was to give the player a chance to point toward the kind of story elements he or she would like to develop in play -- something that leads to real story conflict with other characters and represents a drive for the player to get involved in things.  These two Keys seem more like ways that the character can snipe at NPCs from the sidelines, gain XP, and not really get involved in any personal story. 

Hi, John,

I agree that if the character mouthes off to the king, he gets XP. But how much does he get? Looking at the Key again:

Gain 1 XP every time you blatantly disregard common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
Gain 3 XP every time you do the above, knowing that it entails severe consequences or risks.

Oh! Sorry, I didn't read that bit closely enough. I'd say the "knowing" party there would be the player, yes.

But to simplify matters, just re-word the key:

-- 1 XP every time the character blatantly disregards common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
-- 3 XP every time the character or her friends suffer as a result of her disrespect.

That's more like a "standard" Key, to me.

JMendes wrote:
I think this is a highly subjective question with no clear cut answer. How I would do it is to take a detailed look at:
- How the player "knows" that the king "probably" won't do it; and
- Why the character "believes" that the king will.

I'd need to compare the answers to these two questions before I could give a definitive answer on whether the XPs are granted or not. It may, in fact, be entirely possible that, within the same game, I would let a player have the XPs in one circumstance, and then turn around later and not let him have it, depending on the exact contest.

John Harper wrote:
-- 1 XP every time the character blatantly disregards common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
-- 3 XP every time the character or her friends suffer as a result of her disrespect.

Alan wrote:
I do have one concern for both the Keys in the first post -- they both strike me as personality quirks rather than Keys.  I understood that the purpose of Keys was to give the player a chance to point toward the kind of story elements he or she would like to develop in play -- something that leads to real story conflict with other characters and represents a drive for the player to get involved in things.  These two Keys seem more like ways that the character can snipe at NPCs from the sidelines, gain XP, and not really get involved in any personal story.