Here's the link to my previous post about this project.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1725&highlight=

Now on the post...


I've refocused on "Fulcrum" (working title) and am considering dice mechanics but quite honestly, I'm not a mathematician. Here's what I'm thinking. Please let me know where my logic breaks down.

The dice mechanics is based on rolling a number of dice (currently working with d10s) equal to your Talent (the stats). The scale for Talents goes from 1 to 6, with 2 being an average stat.

You roll your dice and take the highest die roll. If it's above the Target Number you succeed. So, an average person would get 2 dice to roll and keep the higest. Simple so far.

(Btw, can anyone point me somewhere/tell me how to get the probabilities of multiple d10s rolling or beating numbers?)

Here's where it gets tricky. I wanted to show the possibility of luck playing a significant role and allowing for above average successes. So I was thinking of this: when you roll your dice for your Talent, if you roll doubles of a number then you get to add the value of the number rolled to your highest die roll.

Example, I am trying to kick open a locked door. I have a Brawn talent of 4 and roll 4 dice. I get a 7, 3, 3, 5. The 7 is my highest roll and I keep that number. Additionally, since I rolled double 3's, I get to add 3 to my highest rolled number for a total value of 10.

Example, I am trying to form a wall in a Dream. I have a Creativity talent of 3 and roll 3 dice. I get 6, 6, 2. The 6 is my highest roll and I keep that number. Additionally, since I rolled double 6's, I get to add 6 to my highest rolled number (even if my highest number is the one which I rolled doubles) for a total value of 12.

If you roll better than doubles then you get to add the value of the double again for each die beyond the first. Example, I roll 3 dice. I get a 5, 5, 5. I keep 5 because it is my highest. I add 5 for getting double 5's. And, I get to add another 5 for having rolled triples. So my total value comes out to 15.

Effectively this means that the higher your talent the greater the chance for extraordinary success.

(Can someone Sanity check my logic so far?)

Now for the next level of complexity. Which realm you are in has a direct effect on rolling doubles. On the Prime realm of Reality (our world and the parallel worlds) you roll, keep the highest and add the value of any doubles just as I have described above.

Quick Cosmology Refresher:

Potential-->Unreality/Dream-->Reality-->Nightmare/Chaos-->Negation

Moving into the realm of the Unreal/Dreams, you roll, keep the highest but the value of doubles is different. Here you add the value of the doubles once more. Meaning if you roll double 5's then you get to add them both (adding 10 to your highest roll). If you roll triple 4's, you get to add all three of them (adding 12 to your highest roll).

In the realm of Potential, you roll, keep the highest, follow the doubling policy of the Prime realm of Reality but you double the value. Meaning if you roll double 5's then you get to add 10 (the value of the double is 5, doubling that value is 10) to your highest. If you roll triple 4's, you get to add the two additional 4's that you rolled but you double the result (so you would add 8 to the highest roll).

Moving in the opposite cosmological direction, moving into the realm of Nightmare/Chaos you roll your dice, keep the highest but don't add anything for doubles. Yes, the realm is actively working against you and you can only rely on your innate talents.

Moving to Negation, you roll your dice and keep the average of the highest and lowest dice. Doubling has no additional effect.

One final caveat: rolls involving internal conflicts (Empathy and Focus talents) do not change doubling rules according to which realm you are on. They remain the same as on Prime Reality.

Okay, now is this way too complicated? Can someone throw this against a math book and see if my stab at logic is correct? What do you think?

wyrdlyng wrote: The dice mechanics is based on rolling a number of dice (currently working with d10s) equal to your Talent (the stats). The scale for Talents goes from 1 to 6, with 2 being an average stat.

Here's where it gets tricky. I wanted to show the possibility of luck playing a significant role and allowing for above average successes. So I was thinking of this: when you roll your dice for your Talent, if you roll doubles of a number then you get to add the value of the number rolled to your highest die roll.

Now for the next level of complexity. Which realm you are in has a direct effect on rolling doubles. On the Prime realm of Reality (our world and the parallel worlds) you roll, keep the highest and add the value of any doubles just as I have described above.

Quick Cosmology Refresher:

Potential-->Unreality/Dream-->Reality-->Nightmare/Chaos-->Negation
{snip}

One final caveat: rolls involving internal conflicts (Empathy and Focus talents) do not change doubling rules according to which realm you are on. They remain the same as on Prime Reality.

I really like your basic die mechanic--it's a lot of fun. My only reservation is that it's wildly chaotic. If that's what you're going for, then bravo. If not, then tone it down.

Jake
The Riddle of Steel

Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
Maybe it works but where are you getting these numbers from? why is there only one below average stat (1) and three above average stats? Something to think about, I guess.

better idea: how about a simple bonus?

Is it just me or is this just making the critical hit needlessly complicated?

One final caveat: rolls involving internal conflicts (Empathy and Focus talents) do not change doubling rules according to which realm you are on. They remain the same as on Prime Reality.

Why? Is this a way of saying that no matter what happens or where someone goes inwardly they remain unchanged? I disagree with this. Circumstance and environment change people all the time.

Jake wrote: I really like your basic die mechanic--it's a lot of fun. My only reservation is that it's wildly chaotic. If that's what you're going for, then bravo. If not, then tone it down.

Oh, sure when it's bad news, it's my job.

Sorry. Doesn't look too good. Your logic is all sound, but the ranges produced are ugly. Below are the odds of exceeding the Target number (that's how the rule is written; you didn't perhaps mean equal or exceed, did you? If so just shift the target numbers one column to the left) rolling a given number of dice. This ignores the "doubling" rules.

[code]
Target Number
Dice 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1 90.0000% 80.0000% 70.0000% 60.0000% 50.0000% 40.0000% 30.0000% 20.0000% 10.0000%
2 99.0000% 96.0000% 91.0000% 84.0000% 75.0000% 64.0000% 51.0000% 36.0000% 19.0000%
3 99.9000% 99.2000% 97.3000% 93.6000% 87.5000% 78.4000% 65.7000% 48.8000% 27.1000%
4 99.9900% 99.8400% 99.1900% 97.4400% 93.7500% 87.0400% 75.9900% 59.0400% 34.3900%
5 99.9990% 99.9680% 99.7570% 98.9760% 96.8750% 92.2240% 83.1930% 67.2320% 40.9510%
6 99.9999% 99.9936% 99.9271% 99.5904% 98.4375% 95.3344% 88.2351% 73.7856% 46.8559%[/code]

Anyhow, always look at the extremes. The worst person has no less than a 10% chance to perform the hardest task you can assign. A task that the greatest master has only a 47% chance to accomplish. That's not long odds for the wimp. OTOH, rolls against a diff od 1-3 are almost pointlessly simple.

Assuming that you are using a TN-Roll result = height of success method, the number of dice does drastically increase the likelihood of higher results. Your doubling thing, though, is the real breaker. A character with a stat of 1 can only get a 10 at most. A character with a stat of 2 can get a 20. Stat 3 =Max 30. Stat 4 = Max 40, etc. And that's in normal reality. Long odds to get these results, but when they do occur, they tend to be big. The result is that you either succeed by a few points, or you explode off the chart. The TN becomes relatively insignificant in determining the height of success. By the time you have six dice, the chances of rolling less than 10 total are slim, meaning that not only will the character almost always succeed, but they will succeed wildly.

I'd agree that you should drop the doubling and at most give +1s. Perhaps you could do doubling only in the Dream/Unreality zone, and the multiples in Potential.

Ever consider a roll for the opposition instead of a static target number? This would make it similar to Sorcerer, and aleviate some effects.

Mike

Cool. Thanks, Mike.

Looking over the table and running several scenarios through the dice blender has convinced me to ditch Target Numbers and go with opposed rolls.

So, revised base system:

Roll a number of d10s equal to your Talent against an opponent's relevant Talent. Keep the highest roll and add any doubled values (the first and simplified method mentioned at the top). Highest value wins. The difference between values determines level of success.

The difficulty which are not directly opposed would be determined by the Realm. This kind of translates into how much the realm opposes your efforts to bend local reality to your favor.

I was thinking of the following base # of dice:

The Potential - 0 dice (A realm where thoughts become local reality allows you to do just about anything if you're not directly affecting others.)

Unreality/Dream - 1 die (With the realm being only slightly influenced by the laws of our reality you can still get away with a lot.)

Prime Reality - 2 dice (The baseline. Normal folks would get 2 dice vs. 2 dice. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't.)

Nightmare - 3 dice (Hostile realm focused on manifesting the darker sides of possiblity.)

Negation - 4 dice (The realm is trying to break creation into its component parts. It's actively working against your efforts to do anything but dissolve.)

Simple tasks don't merit rolling.
Easy tasks subtract 1 die from the Opposing roll.
Difficult tasks add +1 die to the Opposing roll.
Near Impossible tasks add +2 dice to the Opposing roll.

Does this system seem simpler? It still allows Agents to accomplish incredible feats in Prime Reality through their increased potential for doubles but makes a contest between Agents of similar power a lot closer.

Umm, so what does anyone think?

wyrdlyng wrote:
Does this system seem simpler? It still allows Agents to accomplish incredible feats in Prime Reality through their increased potential for doubles but makes a contest between Agents of similar power a lot closer.

Umm, so what does anyone think?