The Forge Reference Project

 

Topic: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger
Started by: cdr
Started on: 5/23/2006
Board: Playtesting


On 5/23/2006 at 4:36am, cdr wrote:
[Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

Earl offered to run a playtest of Vincent Baker's new game Afraid for me and a couple other of the local gamers, and it went pretty well. Here are some questions and feedback.

We used red post-it flags to mark circumstances, which worked very well. (Has everyone noticed how on the character sheet each circumstance matches the appropriate arena: alone for talk, lost for move, in trouble for fight, unprepared for kill? Very nice design.)

The first victim was Eve, a recent graduate of UC Berkeley (English/Communications) working as a librarian in downtown Oakland, near the courthouse.

Our characters:

D played Alaine Edwards (entangled, unprepared), a young professional law clerk obsessed with Eve but too shy to talk to her.

T played Jacob Steele (veteran, alone), a homeless guy with a dragon tooth sword hidden in his duffel bag. "My sister ate a dragon once." He hung out in the library in bad weather.

I played Dan Greene (investigator, in trouble), a local reporter who knew Eve from doing research in the library, plus his divorced sister Monica was Eve's roommate.

Each of us has decades of conventional RPG experience, especially Champions. Earl & I have been playing and running Dogs in the Vineyard for a bit more than a year, T's played Dogs but rarely GMs, D had read Dogs but never played it. Earl's also run a lot of Call of Cthulhu and is currently running a Star Hero campaign "Space Pirate Zeta" for D, T and assorted others.

Here are the character sheets as of the end of the first session:

Alaine Edwards
Acuity 5d6 Heart 2d6 Body 3d6 Will 3d6
Traits: stalker 1d4, legal knowledge 1d8, unnoticable (fade into background) 2d6, young 1d10, selfless (doesn't worry about himself) 1d6
Relationships (5d4 2d6 1d8 available): local bartender 1d6, eve 2d4
Belongings: good running shoes 2d6, inexpensive car 1d6, old legal books 1d4
(alone, lost, unprepared)

Jacob Steele
Acuity 2d6 Heart 4d6 Body 3d6 Will 3d6
Traits: Underbelly of The City 2d8, Vow of Poverty 1d4, Iron Constitution 2d6, Every Monster has a weakness 3d10 Relationships (2d6 available): My sister's ghost 1d4, Eve 2d6, Demon Cat 1d8
Belongings: dragon-tooth sword 2d8+1d4, big duffel bag 1d8
Bond: Blood of a dragon in my veins 2d4 (alone)
(alone)

Dan Greene
Acuity 8d6 Heart 2d6 Body 2d6 Will 1d6
Traits: Find Things Out 1d8, Bother People 2d6, Put Two and Two Together 1d8, I know how to handle myself in a difficult situation 1d4, Speak Truth to Power 1d6
Relationships (available 4d6 3d8): My long-suffering editor 1d6, Eve (my sister Monica's roommate) 1d6, Joey 1d4, Monster 1d10 (victim)
Belongings: Laptop 2d6, Notebook 1d6, Camphone 2d6, Faithful Honda Civic 1d4 ("And yet I run"), Big excellent e-rolodex 2d8
(alone, lost, in trouble, unprepared)

Our characters didn't have links to each other, just through Eve, which I think was a mistake in terms of bringing us together. By the end of the first session we still hadn't met each other.

We really liked how escalation counted as a free block/dodge, which made dice strategy a bit trickier and really added temptation to escalate. So far no one's attempted murder, though.  So far we haven't taken advantage of being able to join a conflict during escalation.

My notes are rather rough and fragmentary but questions are marked with [braces], and I'd be glad to attempt to provide more detail upon request. 

First scene was Jacob hanging out in the library, where a small goth girl had just returned a book to Eve with a cigarette burn in it, and stalked off. Eve angrily threw the book at the customer. Conflict Jacob vs. Eve with stakes "Does Eve lose her job?" (Or rather, in light of Afraid not verbing conflicts, the stakes were "Eve's Job". Jacob took 5d6 fallout (9, adding Lost circumstance) and Eve took 3d4 (5x). Jacob caught the book, Eve ran outside in tears, and Jacob followed her into the underbelly of Oakland, getting lost in the process. He discovered that the Monster makes people angry.

Followup conflict: "Does Jacob find (and befriend) Eve (removing his Alone circumstance)?" with Jacob vs. Nonhuman NPC: City of Oakland. He used his trait "Underbelly of Oakland 1d8" and got an 8 to reverse a blow, saving Eve from some mugger and removing his Alone circumstance, but was still Lost.

Next scene was Alaine, Eve's stalker, who was surprised to find her not at work but used the opportunity to paw through her desk and try to read her secret diary. Conflict stakes were "Eve's Secret" with Alaine vs. Eve. Eve didn't have any traits in the Acuity arena so that was pretty easy.

Eve's supervisor interrupted Alaine but he used Unnoticeable 2d6 and escalated to physical to hide behind furniture, then left the library with her diary, most of which was in code. Alaine gave, keeping a 5 and 6 for followup. Fallout was 4d6 for Alaine (9x) with him adding Lost and In Trouble to his Alone circumstance, and 4d6 (9) for Eve, providing a clue from the diary: "The mood swings have started since I started Tiger Claw Kung Fu." For experience Alaine took 2d4+1d6 Relationship dice, and spent 2d4 on Eve, with plans to eventually bring that up to 7d4 and then start raising it to hellish levels.

Next scene was Dan in trouble, in media res as he fell through the skylight of the Tiger Claw dojo (which he was investigating for unrelated reasons) and fell at the feet of some muscular guy with a big tiger tattoo. Stakes were "Dan's Safety" and he scrambled out to his car, snapped a photo of the attacker with his camphone and sent it off to his editor, then calmed the guy down and agreed to taking some training. Dan won the conflict, removing the "in trouble" circumstance, but got 7d4+4d8 (15x) fallout and took 1d8+1d6 relationship dice for experience, a 1d4 relationship with Joey (the tiger kung fu instructor), and all four circumstances true, to see how that would work out.  We get another victim's face as info, Joey's.

Next back to Jacob and Eve, with Jacob vs. Oakland and stakes of "Escaping Oakland while impressing Eve". Oakland gave and Jacob got 4d4 fallout (6x), although there was some trouble with the cops deciding Jacob had kidnapped Eve.

Next scene was back near the library as Alaine came out of the library with Eve's diary which Eve recognized, giving chase. It was left unshown what happened between Eve last being scene with Jacob and her presence here, to be backfilled later apparently.  There was a joking suggestion to run a minigame of Breaking the Ice: "Can a creepy stalker law clerk and a librararian with anger issues find happiness in this world?" but instead we had "Does Alain get out of trouble?" which he did, although there was some fighting after Eve invited him back to her apartment and tried to kick his head off, and then police showed up and hauled him in for questioning, but released him. Fallout was 5d4 (8) for Alaine, 3d6+8d4 (8x) for Eve. Alaine added Alone to his circumstances.  He returned to his apartment to find someone had set a fire there, which had not destroyed his creepy stalker evidence. Eve had been spotted by a neighbor and the police were looking for her.

Next, Dan is alone, unprepared, in trouble and lost, waking up not in a friendly hospital, but strapped to a table under a redhead with claws tatooing a tiger on his chest. Stakes were "Does Dan become a victim?"

[1] I think it might be a good idea to require all four circumstances to become true to do a victimization scene. In this case, we were just experimenting to see what that would be like. He does become a victim, with 5d6 fallout (10x, taking another 1d8 and 1d6 relationship dice, and -1d6 Will) and keeps a 6 and 7 for intended followup conflict of "Does the Tiger Lady reveal what she knows about the monster?" although we haven't run that yet.

Meanwhile Jacob has lost Eve and is hiding from cops in a dirty alleyway when he encounters a shadowy tiger with green eyes, and talks to it (he's faced a monster before, being a veteran).

[2] I'm wondering if perhaps the Monster should only get victim bonds based on what PCs have seen so far (like demonic influence in Dogs), since the 11d10 (including the new 1d10 for Dan) was quite overwhelming, so right now it seems like there's no good reason for the monster not to show up and eat everyone whenever they're in Trouble. That doesn't seem right, from a pacing perspective, although it makes excellent sense from a monster efficiency standpoint.

Jacob gave on "Finding out what's going on" after drawing his sword, launching a followup conflict of "Whose territory is this?" Jacob gave on that too, after running the monster through for 7d8 fallout (13x) and keeping 8,8. The monster did reveal a bond, "I eat what I kill 1d10" and gave two fallout dice to Jacob for followup, which was "Does Jacob Escape?" with him running away and hiding in a church, with the Monster sitting on the roof patiently until near dawn, then giving while keeping an 8 and 7.  Jacob took 5d6 fallout (5x) increasing his trait "Every monster has a weakness" from 2d10 to 3d10 and adding the circumstance Alone. The tiger took 4d6 (9x) and revealed another Bond, "I take no comfort from gods 1d4".

[3] We discussed whether revealing a bond should include the dice as well as the text, and decided it should.

Our long-range plan remains solid, to die like flies and build up tons of reflection dice!

Other questions that came up:

[4] Do you still get 1d6 relationship with Blood kin, or is that not carried over from Dogs to Afraid?

[5] Under Experience Fallout, why would anyone add a relationship at 1d6 instead of adding 1d8 and 1d6 (or 2d4 and 1d6) to unassigned dice and then spending the 1d6?

[6] Under Experience fallout, why can you only add a die or change a die size for tradition bonds, and not bonds of conscience or nightmare? 

[7] Under fallout, are the options not listed as GM only also open to NPCs? Or does the GM always use the GM only options?  If the former, can NPCs have circumstances, or are those strictly limited to PCs?

[8] There doesn't seem to be any fallout choice for Lose a Belonging, although experience fallout allows adding a belonging to the sheet.

[9] If you have an existing relationship with the Monster that's not in d10's and become a victim, this could result in mixed dice.  How should that work out?

[10] Do you also get Reflection fallout for finally defeating the Monster, or is that supposed to be it's own reward?

We haven't tried multi-way conflicts or conflicts vs. groups yet; maybe next time.

We're looking forward to our next game in a couple of weeks!

--
Carl Rigney
cdr at telemancy.com

Message 19934#208628

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by cdr
...in which cdr participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/23/2006




On 5/23/2006 at 11:06pm, cdr wrote:
Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

Sorry, thought of some more questions and feedback!

[11] I know in Dogs you can "escalate" from fighting to talking.  Is that still true in Afraid, or is Study->Talking->Moving->Fighting->Murder a one way escalation?  Given that escalation on an answer is a free block/dodge and that others can join the conflict then, it felt strange that if someone tried to beat you up you could block that by saying something they couldn't ignore.  (Or maybe not: "I'm your father, Luke!")

[12] I know in Dogs you can, but in Afraid can you still escalate if you wouldn't get any more dice from stats?  For example, you start out talking (roll Acuity+Heart), then fighting (roll Body+Will), then would like to answer a challenge with Move or Murder, does that still count as a free block?  We thought so, but wanted to check.

Not really a question: One player had a question as to where the numbers go in the central circle for stats, in the nifty character sheet, but careful study suggested they go in the same quarter as the stat label, so they're  in the right place for the arena labels outside the circle.  (He thought maybe they went on the other side of the line.)

[13] We missed Dogs-style accomplishments, although they might not fit the new setting.  Some equivalent would be really great, since they're a terrific way to teach a new player the mechanics while getting things rolling.

[14] I liked that in chargen traits and relationships were limited to 3 dice at most.  I assume that limit doesn't apply once the game starts and experience rolls in, but does it?  We're looking forward to creepy stalker getting 9d4 with Eve.  Speaking of which, I also liked that increases in die size are now 1 at a time, so 3d4 to 3d10 now takes 3 experience results.

We're playing again June 3rd, so I may have more after that.

--Carl

Message 19934#208731

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by cdr
...in which cdr participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/23/2006




On 5/23/2006 at 11:12pm, Mark Woodhouse wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

Glad you're finding the sheets useful. Yes, my intent is to have the number in the same quadrant as the label. And yes, the parallel between circumstances and arenas is on purpose.

I'm already invested in your narrative - whatever is behind all this is clearly one BAD mofo.

Message 19934#208732

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Mark Woodhouse
...in which Mark Woodhouse participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/23/2006




On 5/27/2006 at 11:37am, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

Okay, finally I have a chance to sit down and answer your questions!

cdr wrote:
[1] I think it might be a good idea to require all four circumstances to become true to do a victimization scene.


Makes sense.

[2] I'm wondering if perhaps the Monster should only get victim bonds based on what PCs have seen so far (like demonic influence in Dogs)...


Been thinking a lot about this one. Here's a funny proposal, but I think it works just right.

Give the monster a lair. Could be anything. When the monster's in her lair, or when her ability to retreat to her lair is at stake, she gets the d10s for her victims. Otherwise, she doesn't. Consequently, she doesn't get those dice for running out and eating PCs, she gets them when the PCs bring the fight to her.

This means that her victims don't give her bonds; instead they give her a relationship with her lair. Funny, huh?

[3] We discussed whether revealing a bond should include the dice as well as the text, and decided it should.


I agree.

[4] Do you still get 1d6 relationship with Blood kin, or is that not carried over from Dogs to Afraid?


You do.

[5] Under Experience Fallout, why would anyone add a relationship at 1d6 instead of adding 1d8 and 1d6 (or 2d4 and 1d6) to unassigned dice and then spending the 1d6?


Relic of the cut and paste. Go with the new.

[6] Under Experience fallout, why can you only add a die or change a die size for tradition bonds, and not bonds of conscience or nightmare?


Typo.

[7] Under fallout, are the options not listed as GM only also open to NPCs? Or does the GM always use the GM only options? If the former, can NPCs have circumstances, or are those strictly limited to PCs?


The GM may choose any, including the GM only ones. Except that NPCs don't have circumstances.

(If you as GM find yourself going "man, if Alexandra my NPC here only had 'in trouble,' it make it true, because then THE MONSTER COULD EAT HER!" catch yourself and go "oh wait, she's an NPC. THE MONSTER EATS HER!")

[8] There doesn't seem to be any fallout choice for Lose a Belonging, although experience fallout allows adding a belonging to the sheet.


Relic of the cut and paste.

[9] If you have an existing relationship with the Monster that's not in d10's and become a victim, this could result in mixed dice. How should that work out?


Huh. I don't see any good reason to do it any one way over any other one way. Allow mixed dice? Lose your existing relationship? Change your existing dice to d10s?

OH MAN. NO. Okay, here's a new rule.

NPC victims get d10 relationships with the monster, but PC victims get d4 relationships with the monster.

If a PC victim has a preexisting relationship with the monster, the monster immediately victimizes the PC equal to the dice in the preexisting relationship.If I have a relationship with the monster at 2d8, and the monster victimizes me, I'm victimized immediately to level 2.

That sounds appropriately hardcore.

[10] Do you also get Reflection fallout for finally defeating the Monster, or is that supposed to be it's own reward?


You do. Good call.

[11] I know in Dogs you can "escalate" from fighting to talking. Is that still true in Afraid, or is Study->Talking->Moving->Fighting->Murder a one way escalation? Given that escalation on an answer is a free block/dodge and that others can join the conflict then, it felt strange that if someone tried to beat you up you could block that by saying something they couldn't ignore. (Or maybe not: "I'm your father, Luke!")


You can. The key, in both Dogs and Afraid, is that you have to come up with something to say that's compelling enough to distract me from trying to beat your face in. "I'm your father" is a good example; "hey let's talk about this" probably isn't.

[12] I know in Dogs you can, but in Afraid can you still escalate if you wouldn't get any more dice from stats? For example, you start out talking (roll Acuity+Heart), then fighting (roll Body+Will), then would like to answer a challenge with Move or Murder, does that still count as a free block? We thought so, but wanted to check.


It does.

[13] We missed Dogs-style accomplishments, although they might not fit the new setting. Some equivalent would be really great, since they're a terrific way to teach a new player the mechanics while getting things rolling.


Yeah, I know. I'm working on it.

[14] I liked that in chargen traits and relationships were limited to 3 dice at most. I assume that limit doesn't apply once the game starts and experience rolls in, but does it?


Nope!

-Vincent

Message 19934#209030

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by lumpley
...in which lumpley participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/27/2006




On 5/30/2006 at 2:05am, space_parasite wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger



[6] Under Experience fallout, why can you only add a die or change a die size for tradition bonds, and not bonds of conscience or nightmare?

Typo.


A bond of nightmare can only be 1d4 at the start of the game, and gets +1d4 for being supernatural. However, it's not clear to me if this is a 2d4 bond, or a 1d4 bond with a bonus d4. Obviously this doesn't matter when using the bond in a conflict, but it does matter when applying experience: does increasing the die size by one step give you a 2d6 bond, or a 1d6 with a bonus d4? Does removing a die leave you with a 1d4 bond, or a 0d4 bond which evaporates despite the bonus d4?

(We went with the rules as written, which didn't say that bonds of nightmare could be improved (or "improved"), so this didn't actually come up in play, but it might next time, if Jacob lives long enough to get another Experience fallout.)

Message 19934#209169

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by space_parasite
...in which space_parasite participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/30/2006




On 5/30/2006 at 4:25am, agony wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

space_parasite wrote:

However, it's not clear to me if this is a 2d4 bond, or a 1d4 bond with a bonus d4.



It's gotta be a 1d4 with a bonus 1d4, thus upping the die type to d6 would be 1d6 with a bonus 1d4.

Why does it gotta be 1d4?

Because the 1d4 is a bonus because it tends to be problematic, which is why guns have a bonus 1d4 in dogs.  I got the implied feeling that the inherent problematic and conflict ridden supernatural of Afraid was the inherent problematic and conflict ridden guns of Dogs.

Message 19934#209180

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by agony
...in which agony participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/30/2006




On 5/30/2006 at 1:16pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger

Charles is right. Also, not every bond of nightmare must automatically be supernatural.

-Vincent

Message 19934#209204

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by lumpley
...in which lumpley participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 5/30/2006




On 6/6/2006 at 5:23pm, space_parasite wrote:
RE: Re: [Afraid] Victim of an Angry Tiger




However, it's not clear to me if this is a 2d4 bond, or a 1d4 bond with a bonus d4.


It's gotta be a 1d4 with a bonus 1d4, thus upping the die type to d6 would be 1d6 with a bonus 1d4.

Why does it gotta be 1d4?

Because the 1d4 is a bonus because it tends to be problematic, which is why guns have a bonus 1d4 in dogs.  I got the implied feeling that the inherent problematic and conflict ridden supernatural of Afraid was the inherent problematic and conflict ridden guns of Dogs.


Okay, that makes perfect sense. It might be good to have some terminology to indicate that the +1d4 is special, now that it can be attached to things that a) might be Nd4 base, and b) can be changed with fallout.


Also, not every bond of nightmare must automatically be supernatural.


I knew that. Really.

Message 19934#209648

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by space_parasite
...in which space_parasite participated
...in Playtesting
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 6/6/2006