Hello all.
As a system exercise, Mike Holmes has been helping me convert a character from my HARP/Shadow World game to HeroQuest. I've been talking to player of said character, he is intrigued by my description of the system and has agreed to a test run this Wednesday.

What I have in mind is to set up an adventure from his time before the game started, when he was an officer, gentleman and warrior mage in the Wuliris campaign. I still have only a fuzzy notions of what I want to accomplish though, so I thought I'd toss my ideas out here and ask for input and advice. I don't intend it to last long, a session or two; just long enough to get a feel for the system.

Situation: The Rhakhaan Empire is an old, well established state, socially and politically roughly similar to 18th century France/England. No guns though. The empire is now in an expansive mode and has recently moved across the mountain into the politically fragmented region Wuliris. Wuliris is fairly isolated, but is close to the domain of the Dragonlord Sulton Ni'Shang, who considers it part of his area of influence. Meanwhile, there are rivalries in the Rhakhaani general staff, with two generals competing to distinguish themselves as the imperial forces push forth.

The main character is the titular Reif Maglean, youngest son of a count but without any means or titles of his own. By profession he is a low ranking officer, and by profession a trained warrior mage. (More or less like a jedi)
Other things that might pop up? Not much to go on yet. The Dragonlord may intervene, and possibly make an appearance in person. Assassinations? Sudden Counterattacks? Capture and escape? The situation is rich with possibilities, the question is how to make them happen.

And with that I sign off to go read the discussions on how get started with HeroQuest.

Fredrik

Im certainly not the expert you are looking for but from what i read i find it quite difficult to give any suggestions at all....

When you say advice, do you want one of those relationshipdriven adventures that are the prominent fashion here ? If thats what you like, i guess this thread is for you:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=19939.0

I always found ShadowWorld/I.C.E. quite the classic dungeon/combat type of style...

From what you say, it all sounds very much about political intrigues and military affairs.
What do you find interesting ??

Have you seen the anime Nausicaa ?
Maybe thats the style you might like/gives you ideas......

best

Christian

I'm no fan of dungeon crawling, so that is certainly not the style I have been running for.
As for what style the official Shadow World material evokes.. that's not really relevant, so I'll refrain from discussing that here. Suffice to say that the main game is a fairly pulp-style 'Quest for the Lost Mine' adventure, with the two players landing in a series of different situations along the way. Staging intricate and tactical combats is not something I'm very interested in, though there has certainly been episodes of danger and daring.
For this small solo adventure I seek to evoke .. perhaps something in the style of the Sharpe novels written by Bernard Cornwell. That is, the adventures of Richard Sharpe in the Napoleonic wars.
One idea is to set it off during the siege of an important, well defended fortress, with the two generals quarreling over who will have the honour of taking it, or about how to do it...

Btw; another inspiration is Steven Erikson's 'Tales of the Malazan book of the fallen'

Fredrik

Sorry to take so long getting here, Fredrik.

Christian, one of the reasons I run my game in Shadow World is to make the point that, when it comes to style of play, that setting makes absolutely no difference. Oh, I suppose that if you had something like "Dungeon World" where everything was a dungeon full of monsters, with rooms that were shops, or something like a CRPG, that might affect style of play. But given a "Standard Fantasy" world, it's my supposition that what makes play in such a world hack n' slash is precisely the system.

Consider that Shadow World was first created from the remenants of the attempt to build out more of Middle Earth after ICE lost the ME liscence. They took the non-canonical parts that they still had rights to and turned it into Shadow World (if you look at the large "Arda" map that includes the whole continent, you'll see Mur Fostisyr right up in that bay in the middle, if I'm not mistaken). The point is that this world, more than most, is a direct descendant of Middle Earth, as are almost all Standard Fantasy worlds. Even worlds like Greyhawk, which we were also trying to convert here recently, all have some interesting built-in setting-based conflict.

So, no, there's nothing about the setting of Shadow World, IMO, that promotes hack n' slash. It's only playing it with Rolemaster, and with RM stats and such that does that - as you say, the ICE connection. The experiment with Shadow World was to prove that these conflicts could be brought out in play for these worlds using Hero Quest for the system. And, after well over 100 sessions of play now, I think I can safely report that my hypothesis is now a pretty well proven theory. Hopefully Fredrik here can provide some good independent verification.

Fredrik proposed that the dragon lord show up himself in the scenario to stomp the main character. That is, assuming the PC lost, he'd have a close shave with death of some sort that would give him some perspective on life. Thoughts?

Essentially this would be background for the officers' political machinations. The Dragonlord showing up would simply pressurize some already tight situation.

Mike

Hello there Mike.

Just to nitipick about the origin of Shadow World; You're right about its background in ICE's work on Middle Earth, but Shadow World was first developed as a separate setting long before ICE lost it's ME licence.
In any case, the setting as written does share many traits with Middle Earth, first and foremost a tendency towards Epic Quests on which the Fate of the World hangs. Nonetheless, Shadow World is a far less mythic world than Middle Earth.

But getting back to my HQ-experiment.
I've thought a bit more on the premise I sketched out in my last post.
Rhakhaan has two field armies operating in Wuliris. The southern army is led by count Berael Valturin, while the Northern army is commanded by Varn Kassel. Both men are competent enough, and professional rivals, but they also hate each other passionately, largely due to their different background. Valturin is from an northern noble family closely connected to the Imperial court, while Kassel is a wealthy southern commoner from the semi-independant city Lethys.
The situation is that the northern army's advance has been halted by a castle fortess called the Fist of the Emperor, which is putting up an unexpectedly fierce resistance. The garrison is commanded by the powerful wizard Andragiir, and he is putting up a magical defense the mage cadre of the Rhakhaan army is unable to break alone. With the assistance of mages from Valturin's army they ought to be able to push through, but Valturin refuses to release any, claiming they he needs them to pacify the southern region.
My thought is to place Reif, the protagonist, under Kassel's command. This should be a good position, but more or less a dead end career wise, as Kassel has few connections at the court.
So a handful possible complications are:
*Valturin (Personality: arrogant and disdainful, but well connected) finds reason to offer Reif a position in his staff. For instance after Reif has been sent on a courier mission with a message from Kassel.
*The fortess must fall somehow.
*Andragiir is an agent of the Dragonlord.
*The elimination of his agent may provoke the Dragonlord to take action against Rhakhaan.
I should add that Sulton Ni'Shang is an actual dragon, one of the five most powerful in the world. There is absolutely no way that the protagonist can beat him, though the combined might of the Rhakhaani mages may suffice to beat him back. Yep, I got this idea after reading Mike's Giant Stomp suggestion in the 'Failure means Conflict' thread.

So; I have a bundle of ideas. Now to figure out how to implement them. Suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Fredrik Sellevold

Fredrik wrote:
In any case, the setting as written does share many traits with Middle Earth, first and foremost a tendency towards Epic Quests on which the Fate of the World hangs. Nonetheless, Shadow World is a far less mythic world than Middle Earth.

Valturin is from an northern noble family closely connected to the Imperial court, while Kassel is a wealthy southern commoner from the semi-independant city Lethys.

With the assistance of mages from Valturin's army they ought to be able to push through, but Valturin refuses to release any, claiming they he needs them to pacify the southern region.

My thought is to place Reif, the protagonist, under Kassel's command. This should be a good position, but more or less a dead end career wise, as Kassel has few connections at the court.

*Valturin (Personality: arrogant and disdainful, but well connected) finds reason to offer Reif a position in his staff. For instance after Reif has been sent on a courier mission with a message from Kassel.

*The fortess must fall somehow.

*Andragiir is an agent of the Dragonlord.
*The elimination of his agent may provoke the Dragonlord to take action against Rhakhaan.
I should add that Sulton Ni'Shang is an actual dragon, one of the five most powerful in the world. There is absolutely no way that the protagonist can beat him, though the combined might of the Rhakhaani mages may suffice to beat him back.

Mike wrote:
I like the general direction, but does Reif have any real dedication to Kassel? (..)  you could make this a conflict by making Valturin somehow an objectionable individual.

*The fortess must fall somehow.

The point being that this mission is given to Reif? Or...how is this Reif's problem? How can you make it his problem?

Fredrik wrote:

Mike wrote:
I like the general direction, but does Reif have any real dedication to Kassel? (..)  you could make this a conflict by making Valturin somehow an objectionable individual.

Yup. That's the idea. Both of them. I also have a notion of demonstrating Valturin's harsh ways of supressing resistence; hanging, crucifiction, burning of villages, something. I just have to be careful not to go too far, or I risk turning that choice into a non-option.

Sounds good. Yep, it's a balancing act to make it so that Reif's loyalty to his position isn't overwhelmed by his potential bosses' depredations. That said, the key is to have it so that you don't know the outcome and that the player doesn't feel like there is a set outcome. Bangs, often, are "well of course my character does X" sorts of moments - not every one is a hard thinker. But as long as the player knows that you didn't know which way he'd go, then he can feel that he's creating meaning in the context of the game. That is, it may not be a discovery for the player in question, but the fact that he gets to display something that's new for the other players is good enough.

*The fortess must fall somehow.

The point being that this mission is given to Reif? Or...how is this Reif's problem? How can you make it his problem?

Yes, this is an important issue. How do i involve him (or them) in the fate of the fortress? A possible start is the begin the game in medias res, with Reif and his men involved in a fierce, yet futile struggle for the walls. I'll have to present some incentive to volunteer. A daring mission into the heart of the enemy is certainly an opportunity for glory.

Sounds like two different ideas. Yes, if it's not a bang, and you need the character to be somewhere to set up others, then In Media Res is good technique for getting the character there. But that assumes that you have some bang there to get him to. If, instead, there is some choice about getting there, then that's all the better. The second option sounds like it has more potential there. Potential glory vs safety. Just be sure that safety really has some obvious action that follows it up. That is, the classic anti-bang is: Go where the action is, or stay here where it's boring. So, for instance, if he's got an impending date with an alluring local or something scheduled for the time the attack is going to occur... OK, not great, but you get the idea. Maybe there's some tomb he's found out about that he was thinking of investigating for loot? There's equal action on both sides: dungeon crawl, or castle assault? Fortune or Glory?

Incidentally, you might wonder why I'm still writing about the game in future tense? Well, it was postponed. It may take place this weekend, or it may take .. longer. Magne is about to become a father any day now, so he'll soon have other things to worry about. I'm not about to let him withdraw completely into his own world though, but you know how it is.

I do. A player of mine recently had a child, and I've lost others to family life. I don't pretend that family life isn't more important, but I do argue that you can't be a good parent if you aren't a balanced individual yourself (which means taking time for yourself occasionally).

Run Reif through some fatherhood heroquest in play. That ought to pique his interest. :-)

I've had fun sketching out this situation and I'm not going to let it go to waste. Since it's been delayed anyway, I have thought about involving a few more people, adding some more characters and making a mini-campaign out of it. The situation is certainly rich enough.

Go for it! Note that it's my experience that these techniques work best with about 3 or 4 players. More if you go with my Soap Opera approach (tons of NPCs, fragmentedly serial instead of episodic).

Mike