So we're about 4 sessions in on our regular weekend TSOY game.  I posted about the beginnings of it over <a href=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=20170.0>here, and more <a href=http://noahvale.livejournal.com/17439.html>here.

I'll cut right to the chase, and can paint the big picture later, if requested.

I had not fully grasped The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast, until now.  It got up and smacked me in the face, and now I know exactly what it is.

My players want me to run them through a story, and they want to make decisions here and there, but they don't want to even touch the wagon's reigns, if you will.  Heck they dont want to LOOK at the wagon's reigns.  More directly put, when I try to let them steer the story, or involve them as *players*, they tell me flat out that they're not interested.

Sure, these are people who are either A) Accustomed and well adjusted to D&D and similar ilk.  Some of them have played some DitV with me.  They've come to be accepting, I think, of some of the new ways of thinking about gaming, and doing gaming, but I think they still regard it all a little warily.  Or B) not accustomed really to RP gaming at all.

This really cropped up this past weekend.  The short version of the story is that the group was surrounded and captured by a large litter of rats/ratkin.  At the table, I described how they came pouring out into the street around the group, and that it was really a hopeless situation and that they were vastly outnumbered, and that the rats/ratkin were trying to subdue them, and boy were they outnumbered... and asked if they really wanted to make this into a fight.. since they were SO outnumbered and all.  Fortunately one of my players is a ratkin, and used secret of contacts right here, and it worked out fine, they went along with it, but after the game I thought to myself that I should have come right out and said, "A bunch of ratkin come pouring out into the street surrounding you all.  Now, gang, I'd like to run a scene next, in which you guys are captured and tied up by the ratkin.  What do you all think?  We can narrate the capture however you'd like.."  And I emailed my players, mentioning this.

One of my players responded with this, which sums up the mindset of the whole group, it seems.
"On the subject of scene discussion, I am a big believer in following the GMs storyline. I like seeing the GM's creativity in where the story goes. Player input is good, but I would prefer that it be done out-of-game, either before or after a game session. Asking for player input during the course of a game session breaks players out of character and messes with any feeling of immersion that might have been created up until that point."

I'm not so much looking for advice, though I'll gladly accept any that is offered, as much as I am just shocked.  I assumed people would be all over the concept.  So I guess my question/comment is this:

Which is the greater evil?  Giving the players the game that they want?  Struggling through the Impossible Thing?  Or forcing them to accept what I think is a great way to play the game, despite that they don't seem interested?  How far do I push my creative agenda before they get frustrated and either give, or quit playing?

- Shocked in Memphis

Dear Shocked,

The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast is a silly name for a sillier concept. The definition is: "The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." This is correct and incorrect and meaningless. The idea that it's impossible is true, in that, yes, the GM can't be the sole author if the players direct the actions of their characters. That's a truism - and so what?

In your case, your players want you to aggressively frame scenes, come up with big bangs to hit them with, and prepare ahead of time to surprise them by giving them plenty of what they want in your own special ways. That's not impossible. That's prep work, and a great deal of GM authority, but it's easily possible, and I don't think it's evil at all.