This is a game idea I've been tossing around for a while, although I only started figuring out the specifics earlier tonight.  The default premise has the PCs as members of a band.  However, the rules could work for any story focusing on the public and personal relations of a group of people trying to aquire money, power, and/or fame for themselves in the same way but for different reasons.  I could see adapting it to superheroes, pirates, a D&D-style adventuring party, or the leaders of a political or religious movement (of course, someone will run the obligatory "Jesus Christ, Superstar" game).

The central question is: Do you have what it takes to make it big, and do you want to?.  Yes, I realize that this is two questions, but I want to explore them both.  I want it to be possible and encouraged for any given character to do any of the following:

--Stay with the band and help it become world famous.
--Decide that her personal goals are more important than the band.
--Be prevented from achieving any of her dreams by her own failings.

Of course, it's perfectly possible for the character to quit, overdose, or whatever while the player stays: the band simply auditions a new member.  In fact, there should be mechanical incentives for having one's character die or leave.  The new member is as advanced as the other one was, because the band is high profile enough to get someone of equal caliber.

I think this may be one of the few narrativist games in which character and group advancement is central.  You are trying to get famous, and fame will be measured mechanically.  However, fame is not determined by talent.  A character's skill with his or her instrument will not be statted.  What matters is the drama in and around the band, and how the characters rise to meet it.  If your singing sounds like ceramic against glass, don't worry.  If you can get along with your band members, make peace with your parents, shmooze the reporters, overcome your drug addiction, and of course, Get the Girl, you still have what it takes to make it big.

As far as game mechanics go, each character has three Issues:

Motivation: why your band member wants fame.  For example: Prove My Parents Wrong, It's All About the Music, Rouse America's Youth to Revolution, For the Chicks, Spread the Word of God, Destroy Patriarchy.  A band also has a stated goal, which may be the actual motivation of at most one of its members.

Desire: something your band member wants that conflicts with the band's thirst for fame.  For example: Get a Real Job, Raise a Family, Get Good Grades, Make My Parents Proud, Make Time For My S.O.  A character should be able to at least try pursue her desire while still in the band, so, for instance, "Join the Army" isn't an option.

Problem: something that hinders both of the above.  For example: Anger Management Problems, Always in Trouble with the Cops, Lazy, and everyone's favorite, Drug Addiction.

I’ve considered connecting each Issue with a pool of points that players bid to win conflicts, but I’m not sure.

Each characters also has three Edges.  These are things the band member is good at, other than making music.  For example: Peacemaker, Media-Savvy, Fashion-Conscious, Seductive, Good in a Fight, Streetwise, the Cute One, Humble, Deep.

I have some vague ideas about how I want gameplay to work, but they’re nowhere near solid.  Mostly, what I have are design goals:

--Reward players for following any of their characters’ Issues.  My current idea is that when a character dies or leaves, her Issue Points are distributed among other characters.
--Make it difficult to follow any one Issue; the others keep getting in the way.
--Strike a balance between cooperative and competitive play.  My current lead idea is to have the players cooperate with each other while conflicting with the GM, and the characters alternately cooperating and conflicting with each other.  However, this is very tentative.

Here’s a half-baked outline of what I have so far for gameplay:

Players take turns framing scenes centering on their characters.  The players describe the scenes from beginning to end.  Each scene must tie in with recent events in the game’s continuity, and end with a conflict for which the player sets the stakes.  The player bids a number of points from the Issue involved on the stakes.  There will be chart determining how many points one can bid, depending on the severity of the stakes.  The GM or another player can spend points to add complications to the scene.  Complications can raise, lower, or modify the stakes, add new stakes, or bring other PCs into the conflict.  Edges can add to the effective value of a bid without point expenditure, as in the Token Effort system of In Spaaace!  Once everyone is happy with the stakes of a scene or can no longer afford to change them, rolls are made and results are determined.  Somehow, Fame Points of some kind may be gained or lost based on the results of the scene.

Other, even vaguer ideas:
--If one of a character’s issues has more than a certain number of points, the character has a “Breakthrough Scene”.  This is a high-stakes scene in which something extremely significant happens to the character, and his Edges and Issues may change.
--I’m not sure whether play should end when the band is world famous.  On the one hand, world fame is a good place to fade out and an end point would make the game tighter.  On the other hand, it might emphasize world fame as the OOC “win condition” too much.  In a worst-case scenario, this could make the players vs. GM format too antagonistic, resulting in hard feelings.  If fame for the group becomes the main goal, the GM’s effort to prevent fame might become mean-spirited.

I’d like to come up with an example of play, but at this point, it’s too abstract and I don’t know enough about the genre I’m emulating (see below).

Renyard compared this to a beefed-up Baron Munchausen, and I have to agree.  As it is, this is more a storytelling game than a roleplaying game.  There’s little room for immersive portrayal of characters.  I’m not sure whether I want to make room for more conventional play.

The real problem here is that I haven’t done enough research.  The only source materials for this that I’ve read/seen so far are A Mighty Wind and War for the Oaks.  I know I need to see This is Spinal Tap and The Filth and the Fury.  What else?  Perhaps I’ll go into the histories of actual rock bands, but I’m trying to reflect stories about bands and the romantic idea of Rock ‘n’ Roll more than reality.

So then, questions:
--Are my concepts/design goals good?
--What do you like or dislike about character creation?
--How should I flesh out the resolution system?
--What do I need to read/watch for inspiration?

Thanks!

I'm dealing with the last two questions, mostly because the first two questions are both answered with "cool!", and "great!".  So here's my suggestion to your question: “How should I flesh out the resolution system?”

This quote for your design goals gave me an idea.

"Strike a balance between cooperative and competitive play.  My current lead idea is to have the players cooperate with each other while conflicting with the GM, and the characters alternately cooperating and conflicting with each other.  However, this is very tentative."

And these two quotes of your conflict resolution cemented it:

"There will be chart determining how many points one can bid, depending on the severity of the stakes.  The GM or another player can spend points to add complications to the scene."

"Somehow, Fame Points of some kind may be gained or lost based on the results of the scene."

Conflict between players is fun, I suggest fame points should be something to fight over, and possibly a means to reach the "endgame".  Let the player set the stakes.  The GM has a pool of fame that he can wager for a complication.  The players wager fame to add complications. Have there be both a way to get fame from the GM, and a way to win fame from fellow bandmates.

I personally like playing cards to determine outcomes, mostly because they're easy to use and don't require a surface.  Each fame wagered allows another draw from the deck? Spent Traits allow another draw? Highest card wins, tie forces a sudden death one card redraw? 

Let me suggest the following for the goals you set out:

“Stay with the band and help it become world famous.”

Maybe the band collectively needs x Fame tokens to do this.  It would make an interesting endgame goal, nice for the band that works together against outside forces.

“Decide that her personal goals are more important than the band.”

One person would need a certain amount of Fame to break-away and become the household name. (entering a different endgame)  This sets up a strategy of sorts.  Not only winning fame for themselves, but making sure others didn't win more fame than they have, or hit that magic number before they do.  How?  By wagering fame for complications and stealing the fame from their fellow bandmates.  Think of the backstabbing goodness!

“Be prevented from achieving any of her dreams by her own failings.”

Failing challenges to gain fame would result in increasingly downward spirals to self-destruction.  Your Girlfriend leaves you, you get filmed coming down from a booze binge, that sort of thing.  As an idea you could even go into negative fame, maybe at -10 fame, the bandmember permanently self-destructs, either dying or leaving the band.  The player would narrate what happened.

I like the idea that if you're playing a cuthroat group, you have bandmates literally draining other bandmates of their fame, stepping on them to reach greatness.   

Or of a band that together fails challenge after challenge, until finally they "didn't stop until we got married, shouldn't known we wouldn't get very far" (lyrics from summer of '69, by Bryan Adams).  Getting into the spirit here. :)

For the last question, Watch the following.  Some are silly, but they deal with band conflict and dynamics:
Walk the Line, Airheads, CB4, Hedwig and the Angry Itch, Hard Core Logo, Rockstar, Untitled: The Almost Famous Bootleg, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Several Behind the Music Episodes.

I wonder when the game should end, too. The problem is that the history of a band usually ends with a whimper instead of a bang. However, it would be barrels of fun to roleplay band breakups (and reunions), band member deaths (people who have Seen This Is Spinal Tap may want to kill off a few drummers) and other misfortunes (such as when someone's Significant Other joins the band and Yokos it up.)  It would be no fun if a breakup was always Game Over.

I suggest letting the game end when the players want it to end. If they want to identify closely with the PCs and work for a happy ending, they can quit while they're ahead and end the game when the band becomes world-famous. Or, if the players have a well-developed sense of schadenfreude, they can keep playing until after the band's popularity has peaked and waned and the band has become a joke. If the players are somewhere in between, they can roleplay through a band's breakup and finish with its reunion (like the story of A Mighty Wind.)

Thank you for your suggestions.  All look good.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards an undefined end point, for the reason I stated in my OP.  Having world fame as a mutual victory would make it too much like the game's main goal.  I predict that having a main goal would discourage intra-party conflict, and foster too much resentment towards the adversarial GM for preventing that goal.

Once again, thanks.  Any more ideas?

I like this idea:

As far as game mechanics go, each character has three Issues:

Motivation: why your band member wants fame.  For example: Prove My Parents Wrong, It's All About the Music, Rouse America's Youth to Revolution, For the Chicks, Spread the Word of God, Destroy Patriarchy.  A band also has a stated goal, which may be the actual motivation of at most one of its members.

Desire: something your band member wants that conflicts with the band's thirst for fame.  For example: Get a Real Job, Raise a Family, Get Good Grades, Make My Parents Proud, Make Time For My S.O.  A character should be able to at least try pursue her desire while still in the band, so, for instance, "Join the Army" isn't an option.

Problem: something that hinders both of the above.  For example: Anger Management Problems, Always in Trouble with the Cops, Lazy, and everyone's favorite, Drug Addiction.

I’ve considered connecting each Issue with a pool of points that players bid to win conflicts, but I’m not sure.

Each characters also has three Edges.  These are things the band member is good at, other than making music.  For example: Peacemaker, Media-Savvy, Fashion-Conscious, Seductive, Good in a Fight, Streetwise, the Cute One, Humble, Deep.

1) Concepts/designs good? I think the concepts/design goals are excellent. In many games there are Rocker character templates, or a suggestion of the party being a band, but it never feels like it would gel. This seems like some good quality fun.

2) Character creation? Without a system it’s hard to see how the stats you’ve listed would contribute. As such it’s hard to comment, except to say that these do seem like the kind of stats a band member should have.

4) Inspiration? As long as your gaming party has the same direction in mind you won’t need inspiration. But I’ll add Wayne’s World 2 to the list.

If it was me I’d get rid of a GM all together. I think I’d probably have Motivations as a kind of Edge, and Desires as a kind of Problem. I'd also want a definite goal, but that's just the way I game. I’m going to type a couple of ideas here and see what comes out, see if you find any of it relevant:

The aim of the game is to get the band to Stardom through a rock and roll rollercoaster, and each player has to ensure they are still in the band at the end. The final goal of super-stardom is achieved when the band obtains some preset number of Fame Points, about ten per band member, something like forty.

Each starting band member starts with 12 point allocated between each of three stats: Modesty, Fitness and Freedom. These three stats are your defence against the three perils of band-dom, Ego, Ill-health and Commitment. Succumb to Ego and your character leaves the band over “creative differences.” Succumb to Ill-health and you end up in a rehab clinic, or a coffin. Succumb to Commitment, and between law suits, divorces and simple other interests your character is forced out of the media spot light.

In addition, each player chooses one problem and two edges, taking inspiration from the lists above. When the Spotlight is on their character these can come into plat as outlined below.

Play proceeds as a series of turns around the table, with players taking it in turns to be in The Spotlight. The level of media interest in the band starts at 1, and increase by 1 each turn. The level of Media Interest determines the maximum number of dice that can be rolled by each player in each turn. If the spotlight is on your character you have to roll a number of dice equal to the level of media interest. Each turn has two phases, the Rock and the Roll.

The Rock
If your character is in the spotlight then you begin by describing a scene or problem that your band member is having. Players are encouraged to start these small and have them grow increasingly more extreme as the game goes on. The player outlines what his character is trying to achieve, and states which of his stats, Fitness, Modesty or Freedom, is at risk. As the Spotlight is on this character they have to risk as many dice as the level of media interest. Going round the table the players decide if their character is involved, what they are doing, and choose to risk a number of dice up to the level of the media interest. They also need to nominate which of their stats is at risk.

The Roll
Players roll all the dice they have risked. If any dice shows a 5 or 6 the band gains a Fame Point. If any dice show a 1 the character in question looses a point from the attribute at risk. The Fame point gain happens before the attribute loss, so the band can potentially reach stardom with several characters on the verge of death, breakdown and bankruptcy. Going round the table players narrate the fall out based on their dice rolls. If your character looses all their points in an attribute then they are out of the band. Any remaining points in their attributes are converted to Fame Points, but that player is out of the game. Sorry kid, that’s Rock and Roll, but you get the chance for an extended narration based on your new solo career, death metal funeral or commitment to an asylum, for example. The spotlight then moves to the next player and the level of media interest increases by one point.

Problems and Edges
If your character is in the spotlight and you choose for their scene to address their problem then you automatically gain two fame points during The Roll phase, and loose a point from your lowest attribute.

Edges are one shot bonuses. If your character is in the spotlight and you wish to use your edge it gives you a one off bonus of three dice. This can take you over the level of media interest.

How I see play working:

It is the third turn of a game of Make It Big!, The Spotlight is on Tray, hippy and prog-rock drummer of band Icegarden. The level of Media interest is 3, so Tray’s player Ashley will be risking three dice.

Tray: Right guys, there’s this groupie, right, and she’s been coming on to me really heavy, right, and she’s like, there, everywhere I go. And she keeps stealing bits of my clothing like my favourite t-shirt with the bones on it, and I don’t know for sure but I think she’s done, like, stuff with my drum sticks. It’s more than I can take right now, so I’m going to break down in my interview with Big Hair magazine and plead for her to leave me alone. (Risks three dice, as the level of Media Interest. Tray has taken Cry On Camera as an Edge, so he elects to roll another three dice and cross off the Edge. Ashley puts Trays Modesty/Ego at risk.)

KK middle: (A punk rock bass player.) I’m staying well out of this. I’ve lost stats every round so far and the spotlight is on me next.

Baz: (Organ and various brass.) I will be helping out in whatever way I can, trying to really be there for Tray. I’m also trying desperately to hide the fact that there was this creepy groupie a while back that was harassing me, and that I told her that Tray was keen on her in order to make her go away. So I guess this is all my fault. I’m risking two dice, not sure what attribute though, any ideas?

Tray: Fitness. Because if I find out then I’ll forget that I’m a pacifist and you’ll get a drumstick somewhere delicate. Sideways.

Baz: Cool, two dice risking Fitness.

Justin Woodpond: (Vocals) I hire some very elite security for the group. Suits, shades and ear pieces. I realise we have no money, so I’ll be promising to pay them all when we get rich. If this goes bad then they’ll either break our legs or sue us, I guess I’ll put freedom at risk, three dice it is.

And the band get ready to Roll, there are eleven dice on the table and things could go really badly for Tray if he gets a fist full of ones.

Sorry Mr Sluagh, that came out a lot longer and less coherent than I expected. I hope there is something in there that you can use.

Hiya Mr. Slaugh (whats your real name?),

I know it can be tough to write out an example of play (I know its my big weakness). But the key, for this stage, is to write an example of the fiction you would like to see ideally generated by play. Don't worry about mechanics or whats happening on the table, as it were. I tend to write out what the players say OOC and then what happens IC, with a little note [mechanics here] for the places where I think mechanics should happen. Even this isn't necessary! You can work backwards, from transcript of fiction, then add in what the players are saying to each other, then add in the notes where mechanics should happen. But the key is to generate an example of what would really jazz you to see come out of play.

What you've said so far reminds me of both Prime Time Adventures and My Life With Master. Are you familiar with those games? If not, you should check 'em out. There's also Metal Opera, which you'll probably find interesting.

I think this a great idea, and I'd like to see more...

I hope some of thats helpful.

Hi, Mr. Slaugh!

Game concept sounds consistent and interesting.
Your description of the game structure also reminds me of Primetime Adventures. But the characters interaction, perhaps through competition, leads to a different flavour. You should be careful deciding how the players are going to interact if you want to introduce some kind of competition. Pay special attention about the rights to frame scenes and enter it afterwards.

Nathan's advise is really wise. You will find easier to decide about mechanical questions with an example of fictional play at hand.

Arturo

Mr. wrote:
...Having worldwide fame as a mutual victory would make it too much like the game's main goal.  I predict that having a main goal would discourage intra-party conflict...

Hmmmm.

I think you're looking for a defined (categorizable) set ouf outcomes.  In other words, the game progresses over time towards a climactic event in which all things are resolved one way or another.  What I'm thinking of here is that ultimately the action culminates, after a series of Tours, in the Big Battle of the Bands, where the Band will either emerge as triumphant, or fall into obscurity.

When I put it that way, I think about the various formulas that determine the set of possible outcomes at the conclusion of My Life With Master.  Well worth checking out, if you haven't.

So, I'd do something like this for each player:

* If _______, you overdose or otherwise "flame out" and die prior to the Battle.  +1 Notoriety for the Band.  Divide up your issue points among the remaining members.

* If _______, you decide you've had enough of this, and decide to leave the Band before the Big Day.  Divide up your issue points among the remaining members.

* If _______, you head to the Big Day with a sense of cameraderie and purpose.  You guys will make it!  +1 Notoriety for the Band.

* If _______, you head to the Big Day with a sense that this is your big moment to shine above the others.  If your Band succeeds, you break off from them shortly, and launch your own solo career.  (Perhaps some mechanic kicks in here to determine if the solo career soars or fizzles)

And for the Band, make use of Notoriety in some fashion to modify a die roll, or combine Notoriety with some other stat to produce a continuum of results revolving around the Big Day:

* If _______, the Band doesn't emerge as the winner of the Battle of the Bands, and passes into obscurity.

* If _______, the Band doesn't emerge as the winner of the Battle of the Bands, but a talent scout discovers them and they get a contract!  (Perhaps more happens here)

* If _______, the Band wins the contest, gets a contract, but only manages to make a mark as One Hit Wonders

* If _______, the Band wins the contest, and emerges as the new pop sensation

... something like that.

In polling & marketing there's a  thing called a "Q rating" which measures
both popularity and unpopularity.

Someone like Hillary Clinton is very popular AND very unpopular
but, either way, she's very famous.

If a rocker or band had a stat like that,
in some circumstances only the positive would count/
other times, only the negative/
sometime the sum/
sometimes the difference/
sometimes "whichever's higher".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Score

Thanks, all.  Lots of good ideas, especially from Iago and Tim Ralphs.

I'd still prefer to not have a set end point, though.  I could see having a set end point for each story arch, and options for starting with different Q ratings, allowing a game to go for multiple archs.

Any further ideas?