The Forge Reference Project

 

Topic: what the non-occultists need
Started by: Paul Czege
Started on: 8/3/2006
Board: Acts of Evil Playtest Board


On 8/3/2006 at 4:59pm, Paul Czege wrote:
what the non-occultists need

Playtesting has shown that non-occultist NPCs (Nobodies and Victims) don't emerge to capture our interest as protagonists in the narrative of play. As this was a primary design goal for the game, it's clearly a problem.

A conversation with Ron Edwards a few weeks back about this issue has convinced me that the non-occultists need mechanics that give them a story arc. He commented that it was uncharacteristic of me as a designer to leave the possible answering of a proto-protagonist's key issue up to the voluntary inspirations of players and to GM fiat. And I agree with him.

Eero made a suggestion a while back that I cut the Trait mechanics and replace Trait count in the formulas with a simple number that just increments every time the NPC is framed into a scene. He suggested the stat could be called Importance. I think Importance isn't quite the right term, but I'm inclined to implement something like the mechanic as he suggests. The Trait mechanics are imposed creative work that aren't producing the intended result, so they should be gone.

What I think I need are maybe two stats for a non-occultist NPC (one possibly a renamed Importance, and one maybe related to a reworking of the current Question mechanics) that replace Trait count and integrate with minimal complexity into the existing formulas to create some tension between the following possible outcomes for the non-occultist:

1. The NPC is unremarkable in his life of success or failure against conflict resolutions and status change. This is the "not a protagonist" story arc represented by leaving Questions unraised or unanswered and replacing Trait count in the formulas with an Importance stat.
2. The NPC gets his Question answered, which gives closure to his story.
3. The NPC thwarts the occult ambitions of a player character. I'm thinking the desired mechanical effect is the capping of the player character's Clarity at its current level. I'm thinking this outcome entails a consequence that the character won't be getting his question answered, and so it also gives closure to the NPC's story. But I could be convinced otherwise by strong contrary opinions.

The question is how to manage #1 with a couple of stats in the formulas to produce tension between #2 and #3. What do you think? I'm wide wide open for suggestions on this, for references to other games that resolve conflicts for NPCs as a by-product of resolving the front-and-center conflicts of PCs, even for just brainstormed comments.

Thanks,

Paul

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On 8/3/2006 at 7:24pm, c wrote:
Re: what the non-occultists need

Hi Paul,

I would like to ask for some clarification so I understand the what and why-for better. Is part of the purpose of the nobodies and victims to cause us some uneasy-ness as we tromp on them to gain power? If so that didn't work for me even as we tried to make them more personable, because they were nobodies and victims. By definition they are not worthy of my concern. I wonder how uneasy it might make us feel if instead of them having no real connection, they instead were the characters friends, and family, or enemies. People with personal ties, assuming some uneasiness is part of the goal.

What are the questions for? Going back to the idea of personal ties... instead of the NPC having a question perhaps the PC could have a question about the created NPC, for instance, "Does she still love me?"

Sorry if this was too much of a non sequitur.

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On 8/3/2006 at 7:44pm, Paul Czege wrote:
RE: Re: what the non-occultists need

Hey Clyde,

Is part of the purpose of the nobodies and victims to cause us some uneasy-ness as we tromp on them to gain power?

Yeah, that's it exactly.

Going back to the idea of personal ties... instead of the NPC having a question perhaps the PC could have a question about the created NPC, for instance, "Does she still love me?"

That might work, but I hesitate because I think the PCs really shouldn't care. They're already lost to the occult path, with no possibility of redemption. We should care, as players, but I want to achieve it without humanizing the occultist. Can it be done?

Paul

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On 8/4/2006 at 5:58pm, c wrote:
RE: Re: what the non-occultists need

Without humanizing the occultist makes it seem difficult, and the only idea that comes to me immediately is if there can't be a connection between occultist and pawn, can there be a connection between the pawn and the player? Perhaps underscore the inhumanity of the occultist by requiring the player to stomp on their cherished ideas to get their mechanical power? Another idea might be to use victims of a cherished victim status. What I mean is a victim that society doesn't feel proper in openly challenging. Minorities, Children, the mentally handicapped, etc. Something that players of our culture are likely to naturally find wrong.

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On 8/4/2006 at 6:50pm, Paul Czege wrote:
RE: Re: what the non-occultists need

Clyde,

...can there be a connection between the pawn and the player?

Dang, that sure seems like productive territory. I'll give it some thought. Thanks.

Paul

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