I have a line of games I am trying to flesh out, of which this is the first.  Thanks, in advance, for your input.

First, let me say that I like games with a high fiddly-bit quotient.  I like a boxed style game with a meaty, colorful book where you greedily pour out it's contents and it holds within everything you need to play. 

As such my newest game uses some different approaches to roleplaying.

Namely, and the focus of this post, players will be expected to play a simple side game during character development.  It can be interactive and there will be a sense that you could have done better.  The hope is that you get the sense that your character could be better than she is however internal and external forces impede your will to make it so.  We see this all the time.  We want to exercise more or jog every day but boredom, laziness or priorities prevent it and thus prevent our having healthier, shapelier bodies.  We want to study for that final but it's a buddy's birthday or the weekend of the big con.  It is that sort of phenomena that drives character devlopment.

To emulate this I have BEGUN to devise a mechanic for character development.  Note that I do have a setting in mind for this however I am attempting to keep it out of the equation for the time being.  I will talk about the setting in s hort bit but I wanted to first talk about what people think of this idea as a GM and as a player.  I am looking to make the development game deeper and critical to game play.

The mechanic I have thus far...

You have a lanscaped 8.5 x 11 character sheet
On the left half is a character written out with passions/drives, concept, etc. and a list of training packages.
Your training is written beside a reference number. 

ex. 1 military field engineer
2 athlete
3 telekinesis
4 martial artist

On the right half you have a grid with 28 verticies (4x7).
You have three stats - BODY (red), MIND (blue) and SPIRIT (yellow) which are represented by round colored labels with a triangle within.
Place them on the grid.
You have access to several sheets of round labels in blue, green and red.
Training is developed in one of the three colors - blue if through mediation and study, red is through physical conditioning and rote motions, and yellow if for experimental procedures from hypnosis to gene therepy to nanotech.  For some training packages certain training regiments may not be appropriate.
Otherwise you place colored dots attached to the appropriate colored stats and number the colored dots based on the reference number beside the training package.

Training grid

The point here is to have a scheme that says what color (stat) the training is keyed off of.
For most stakes you would look at your highest level and add one for each other color involved.

ex. If you have a skill with three dots away from blue, two dots away from yellow and one dot away from red then its a level five skill.  This means you can accomplish tasks with up to five obstacles (shooting a moving target, at long range, behind cover, in the rain while dodging - these character are made to be VERY competant). 

The GM decides what obstacles the characters face and as long as they overcome the obstacles then they will succeed.
However, supernatural elements in the game (note that the above training packages include telekinesis) require an unpredictable effect level and a certain amount of danger.
Then you roll a number of these spiffy dice included in the player packet

Atom dice

As of now I am thinking of the dice as a muliplier.

ex Lets say the above character needs and effect level for his TK.  He rolls five dice (I will get into how many dice you roll in a future post) and gets 1 yellow, 1 green, 2 blue and 1 red.  He may chose to use the blue effect level (2 x 1 = 2) or the yellow effect level (1 x 2 = 2), being identical it doesn't matter unless a color is somehow resticted or his power says he gains a partiuclar advantage for using a particular color (various defenses or special effects).  He may also use the green die one of two ways.  He may place it to the side in a pool to be used later or he may use it (and any in the pool) to add to blue and green results (making the blue result 3 and the yellow result 4).

The only thing I have on the development phase is this...

A GM will award players in three ways:
Additional dice to roll through the course of the game
More time to train
Access to certain training types

When there is an appropriate break in the action the GM gives the players a specified amount of time they get to train their characters.  This becomes a number of turns they have to play the developmental game.

Access to training is achieved through access rewards.  These are marked on the lines of the grid when they are rewarded.

Players may move colored dots starting at the base stats along access points. 

ex. If the above character wanted to improve his athlete training through physical conditionaing (red #2) then it would take two turns.  If he wanted to improve telekinesis (#3) in yellow it cost three turns.

You can also run access points off of your character sheet which designates relationships.  Many relationships are open ended and their effects are noted on the character sheet.  However, if you have a relationship with another character and by lining up character sheets you could add their levels on linked numbers. 

ex. If your character has a red #2 (designating physical training in a chi strike) on the edge and an access point that leads away you can line up another character's sheet that is helping you.  If she has an access point and a red #2 along that point then you can count it toward your own levels.  This designates someone not just helping you but the likelihood that you were either trained together or under similar means.

SO that is it.  I gave everyone as much as possible to give the character development some context.  How do you think your players or you would react in this sort of mechanical environment?  I figured that most people do character development outside the game as it is.  I am hoping that devlopment based awards and the specifics of the setting will help round out the story and create engaging training sequences and the like.

I realize that for many games the training is organic without the normal game play (which i love) this just isn't goign to be that kind of game... unless I can't get this to jive.

Thanks again,
- Don

edited by me to make the images into links - RE

uh, I have to midify my post to fix the link to the pic... pardon my ignorance but how do I do that?

*sigh* here is the link to that middle pic...

Training grid

edited by me to make it a link, not a pic - RE

Feel free to delete these last three for tidiness.

Well ... what is your game about?

What inspired you to make this game?  What hoped-for experience of game-play makes you get all hot and sweaty and talk fast until you run out of breath about the game?

And then, of course, how do you expect this system to contribute to fulfilling the promise of that inspiration?

As I mentioned in the post I will be displaying the setting and game-play seperately from this mechanic discussion. 

The focus here is a look into people's initial reaction to the idea of a character development mechanic that rides more on uncertainty and player interaction than points or pure narratation.  My apologies if I didn't make that clear. 

No, that's fine ... it's just ... absent some sense of what you're trying to accomplish, I have no opinion.  Literally, none.

It's like you held up a great big galvanized screwdriver and said "Will this work for the task I'm about to undertake?"  Sorta depends on the task, doesn't it?

Okay.  Thanks.

...players will be expected to play a simple side game during character development.  It can be interactive and there will be a sense that you could have done better.  The hope is that you get the sense that your character could be better than she is however internal and external forces impede your will to make it so.  We see this all the time.  We want to exercise more or jog every day but boredom, laziness or priorities prevent it and thus prevent our having healthier, shapelier bodies.  We want to study for that final but it's a buddy's birthday or the weekend of the big con. It is that sort of phenomena that drives character devlopment.

To emulate this I have BEGUN to devise a mechanic for character development.  Note that I do have a setting in mind for this however I am attempting to keep it out of the equation for the time being.  I will talk about the setting in a short bit but I wanted to first talk about what people think of this idea as a GM and as a player.  I am looking to make the development game deeper and critical to game play.
Does that help?

Eruditus,
It seems to me you are trying to devise a lifepath system without the charts that is instead played through in a prelude. Is that correct?

I think what Tony was getting at was very few of us get *inspired* about a character generation method, rather we get *inspired* by something we can imagine/visualize. For example, "I am sick and tired of all these min-maxed characters with no flaws!" is not inspiration. An example of inspiration would be "I love comic book origin stories that explore the roots of the character - I want more of *that* in my game!"

Don, I think we're trying to cover a lot of ground in this post making it hard to see these separate elements you want feedback on.

I like the concept of training and improvement not coming automatically (I dislike the "I guess you were studying that in your spare time" out, but it's a convenience.) In Tribe 8 learning a new skill is a challenge in and of itself. A tutor must first be found with sufficient knowledge of the skill. There is a lengthy study period that must be declared the the start of learning rather than retroactively. The duration of training is affected by the other tasks that are being undertaken in game  And finally, skill tests are made to determine if you can leave your tutor or if you need another week. And then roll again.

Where Tony and me would like more illustration is in why this is happening. In Tribe 8, the people are dealing with a post-apocalyptic world in which scrounging for food occupies most of the day. If you study for an extra hour, you don't eat today. Why is this happening in your sci-fi psychics game? Why can't they just say "I boned up on alien languages while lounging in my apartment, letting the robo-chef cook dinner?" Putting that mechanic in context creates the sense of drive for the mechanic. If your setting is my example of robo-chefery and lounging, it doesn't seem justified that a person needs to struggle to learn or improve.

Now, I know something more of your setting so I have an advantage in this discussion. I know that the players are part of a rebellion, that a government is hunting them and the local health spa has revoked their memberships. They are on the run and in hiding where settling in for a quiet read of the latest particle physics theories has to be done with one eye on the door and a hand on your gun.

That gives you justification and motivation for the mechanic and lets me say that being rewarded extra training time is a big deal in a game like this! Character development can be interrupted or rendered useless if the players aren't covering their tracks. Hide first, learn second.

I'd like to see the discussion of psi abilities and the multipliers written out as a separate post though. I'd feel more comfortable just discussing the advancement here so we can focus.

I hope this information helps and please correct me if I've forgotten or misinterpreted the background you gave me about the game.

Thanks for the direction, all.

Okay I will try to do a better job of condensing things and if anyone wants to see a deeper look at the mechanic then feel free to peruse the longer post.

The game is about people who have developed various powers through scientific processes, some tried and true while others are still being experimented on.  The governmental structure that supported that training has been devestated and driven underground.  Thus it becomes difficult to find cells that continue on the work.  Also, the government you worked for is in exile and it would be easier to get into bed with other extra-national entities thus giving up secrets they have craved for decades. 

I really wanted to give the process of training more weight and a certain guess quality.  I didn't want someone to walk away from "leveling" a character thinking they had ever done everything they could have.  I wanted a feeling of longing and questioing - "Is this the way I wanted the character to go?"

It's not really a lifepath system in the traditional sense (certainly not like BW or Artesia).  I would say it's inspirations were more along the lines of Final Fantasy X.  The idea is "do I specialize in one training mehtod or do I cover my bases?"  Specializing illicits enormous power curves with abilities way off the charts.  Generalization just makes the characters hyper-competant and consistent but without some of the power punch that they may need to face enormous odds against them.

Lastly, the process is fatal.  These people using powers do not live for very long and the more powerful they become the further they peer into oblivion.  I suspect that people that rocket to the higher power levels at the detriment of variety will most likely perish through exploding heads and heart-attacks.  In fact I am considering this being the only real mechanical source of death (as compared to story death).

Thoughts?