Topic: Gloating Feature
Started by: LemmingLord
Started on: 8/27/2006
Board: Muse of Fire Games
On 8/27/2006 at 8:24pm, LemmingLord wrote:
Gloating Feature
Gloating
If Resolving would violate the group Code the Claimant instead Gloats. Starting with their highest die on the Conflict they may turn dice to 1. For each die turned the Resolver earns a Story Token.
Given that the claimant can narrate any resolution, wouldn't any kind of resolving meet the critieria required for gloating?
A game's Comic Code includes "The world will not be destroyed". Joe, playing Tyrranor, intergalactic warlord, prepares his battle-fleet to fire on Earth, reducing it to drifting rubble. He creates the Event "Battle-fleet Fires", and Stakes three Power.
Tyrranor Resolves "Battle-fleet Fires Weapons" with a 6, 4 and 1 on his dice. He chooses to reduce his six and 4 down to ones, taking two Story Tokens. He now has a total of three on three dice. The Event stays on the table. Joe narrates how Tyrranor Gloats about how helpless the heroes of Earth are against him.
Assuming the same setup for this, Tyrranor could just as easily gloat instead of resolving - "Goal: Make PBJ Sandwich" - since he could narrate "Tyrannor taps the nuke-the-planet button as he finishes his PBJ sandwich."
Are there guidelines for this I'm missing?
If not, I'm sure the first thing the good guys are going to want to do in any situation to create the goal: prevent the world's destruction since otherwise anyone might get story tokens for something silly.
I suspect part of what needs clarification for me is what constitutes "resolving would result in violating the comics code." I suspect that we'd want to add "necessarily" - but in that case the Tyrranor example does not meet that goal since "Battle-Fleet Fires" is easily resolvable in ways not requiring the world be destroyed (for one example, see the follow up resolution where the battle fleet blows themselves up instead...
On 8/27/2006 at 10:03pm, Vaxalon wrote:
Re: Gloating Feature
The way I see it:
"The Battle Fleet Fires" isn't gloatable, because you can resolve it in such a way that Earth is not destroyed.
"Tyrranor's fleet destroys the earth" IS gloatable, because you can't.
Resolving "Tyrranor eats a PBJ" in such a way that Earth is destroyed, when you have a comics code against it, gets popcorn thrown at you.
On 8/27/2006 at 11:47pm, AaronLehmann wrote:
RE: Re: Gloating Feature
Nah... No popcorn throwing. Eating PBJ is ALL good.
On 8/28/2006 at 2:29pm, Hans wrote:
RE: Re: Gloating Feature
LemmingLord wrote:
I suspect part of what needs clarification for me is what constitutes "resolving would result in violating the comics code." I suspect that we'd want to add "necessarily" - but in that case the Tyrranor example does not meet that goal since "Battle-Fleet Fires" is easily resolvable in ways not requiring the world be destroyed (for one example, see the follow up resolution where the battle fleet blows themselves up instead...
Vaxalon wrote:
The way I see it: "The Battle Fleet Fires" isn't gloatable, because you can resolve it in such a way that Earth is not destroyed.
"Tyrranor's fleet destroys the earth" IS gloatable, because you can't.
Resolving "Tyrranor eats a PBJ" in such a way that Earth is destroyed, when you have a comics code against it, gets popcorn thrown at you.
I have to disagree with Fred, above. What Fred seems to be saying is that Events can't be gloatable. Here is what I mean.
Event: The Battle Fleet Fires
Event: The Battle Fleet Fires and destroys the Earth.
Fred says the first one is not gloatable, and, if I read him correctly, the 2nd one is not. However, the 2nd says the Earth WILL BE destroyed. Thats what events are; something that WILL HAPPEN in the game. Therefore, the 2nd event can not resolve at all. The scene will never end; people can keep gloating, but it won't do them any good. Moreover, Fred is directly contradicting the example in the rules, which clearly states that "Event: The battle fleet fires" is gloatable. A gloatable event has to have some way it could be resolved without violating the comics code; that doesn't mean it isn't gloatable, it just makes it so that eventually it can be actually resolved.
As to the wider question; in my experience, which events are gloatable and which aren't is something that is usually obvious to all invovled. To my mind, the text of the conflict has to imply that it is very likely something that will violate the comics code will occur on resolution. In the example in the rules, we are missing the story and player context of the conflict "Event: the battle fleet fires". I play that conflict with a gleam in my eye, narrating Tyrannor saying "Once the Earth is in sensor range of the battle fleet, FIRE my minions, and wipe it out of existence!" I've stated my intent, through the narration, to try to violate the comics code. Hence, the question of exactly what is gloatable and what isn't is decided in the moment of play, and not really resolved by the text of the rules. I've never actually seen anyone gloat on a conflict that I didn't think was gloatable.
That being said, I try make it a habit, especially when playing with people new to the game, of explicity stating that I believe a conflict I (or someone else) plays is gloatable. If I'm playing it, I announce this with a cackle and something like "Gloat fest for me!"; if someone else does, I announce this with something along the lines of "No WAY I'm letting you gloat on that!" This allows the question to be answered at the moment the conflict is played, a much more convenient time to do so, then when the conflict resolves.
One thing to remember as well; if a conflict is gloatable, it can be gloated on by ANYONE! Sure, you are playing the Tyrannor and played "Event: the Battle Fleet Fires". You gloated on it last page. Your thinking to yourself "haha! I've gotten my story tokens, might as well let those poor saps playing the good guys resolve the thing!" I'm playing the good guy. I get control and am able to resolve the conflict. I say "Oh no! Your troops have just captured all the heroes! My good guy yells at Tyrannor 'I may not be able to stop you, Tyrannor, but know this...I will get revenge for the Earth and its inhabitants!" Then I gloat like crazy, chuckling to myself.
See this thread (from the FAQ) for a fuller discussion of the issue of who can gloat: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=18898.msg199440#msg199440. Based on this issue, I would say that, mechanically at least, it doesn't matter which conflicts are gloatable and which aren't, because it provides no clear advantage to any one person. Its not a tool that can be used only by people playing bad guys.
This is the ultimate answer for the PBJ sandwich conflict. Ok, so you gloat no the PBJ sandwich conflict. I might throw a bit of popcorn at you. Or, I might just win my side, and then gloat as well, saying "I can play the 'do silly stuff to get story tokens game' too, friend, is this really the kind of game you want to play?" The more story tokens in the game, the less their value; in my experience it is not the raw number of story tokens you have that determines your power, but rather the excess story tokens you have over that of the other players.
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Topic 18898
On 8/28/2006 at 2:59pm, drnuncheon wrote:
RE: Re: Gloating Feature
Vaxalon wrote:
Resolving "Tyrranor eats a PBJ" in such a way that Earth is destroyed, when you have a comics code against it, gets popcorn thrown at you.
...unless it's a planet butter-and-jelly sammich, of course.
J
hears Galacticus likes his deep-fried