Topic: Quandery of which direction to go...
Started by: Kensan_Oni
Started on: 8/29/2006
Board: First Thoughts
On 8/29/2006 at 4:43pm, Kensan_Oni wrote:
Quandery of which direction to go...
Hello All!
For the last couple of years, when not consumed by other, more important things, I have been writting a setting for a campaign that I would like to see one day come to life as a game. Although I've only have about 40 pages of material on my computer, I know that I have more notes then I can shake a stick at somewhere else in my collection of notepads. So far, I've had three problems with getting what I want finished, and I came here, thinking I might get some advice on the problems.
1) Intent
When I first started this game, I was inspired by a few 'Streetfighting' games as a basis of charecters. A lot of the explination on players powers come from this origin. In a way, I want to keep this. However, as I developed the world, it reflected a lot of things that are just a little different. Secret Societies doing worldwide manipulations, questions on morality, and how do you fight to maintain rights that shouldn't have ever been denied to you. A lot of the world creation is tied into serious stuff, and this kinda bellies the abilities of the charecters. Is it okay to have a game deal with such issues while on another level have really weird powerful charecters with all the martial arts feel and things?
2) System
When I fist started to develop this game, D20 Modern was on the horizen, and I wanted something that I could play with one of my crowds of freinds that would be compatiable with D&D, as it was one of two systems that they really identified with. However, as time has gone on, D20 seems more and more to be a poor choice for this game. it doesn't really allow for the type of action I want to see. While True20 also had some hope, as I could convert a lot of the previous work over easily to it, it really doesn't seem like a good choice either. The question comes down to, do I adopt a different, already extablished system, and mold my game to it, or do I try to strike out on my own, and try to figure out how to build a system that is true to the source and insperational materials.
3) Time
I admit, the concept which I have is a rather narrow one. It might be of interest to me, and it can be exciting for my freinds the few times we did get a chance to play and run with this, but it might not be for everyone. Should I bother making what is effectivly a specialized setting for general public consumption? There are many games I can think of that went the specialized route and failed. Is it worth the time to do? (I think so, but that might not mean anything)
....
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank you for your time.
On 8/30/2006 at 12:40am, dindenver wrote:
Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
Hi!
FATE/FUDGE is OGL and is flexible enough to do what you want, probably...
I don't think that D20 is totally unsuited to this sort of game. It might be a little overwrought to be an elegant solution, but, it is a combat-centric game.
Shadow of Yesterday is under creative commons. You have permissions to make a derivative works. It is a good system for making thematic chars.
There are probably other OGL systems. and potentially, someone here might be wiling to collaborate on the mechanics. I think if you know what you wnat and can communicate it effectively, then you are set to try any of these options.
Good luck man, I think it would be great to see a Street fighter game that is not too crunchy or too satirical...
On 8/30/2006 at 3:14am, Qi Chin wrote:
RE: Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
Hi there. Let me see if I got this right.
Kensan_Oni wrote:
1) Intent
When I first started this game, I was inspired by a few 'Streetfighting' games as a basis of charecters. A lot of the explination on players powers come from this origin. In a way, I want to keep this. However, as I developed the world, it reflected a lot of things that are just a little different. Secret Societies doing worldwide manipulations, questions on morality, and how do you fight to maintain rights that shouldn't have ever been denied to you. A lot of the world creation is tied into serious stuff, and this kinda bellies the abilities of the charecters. Is it okay to have a game deal with such issues while on another level have really weird powerful charecters with all the martial arts feel and things?
If I get your first question correctly, you are afraid of mixing two potentially very different themes into one setting, right? A very gritty world coupled with single people (if I got that right) who can perform great martial arts. It really depends on how you want these two to mix. The players could be beacons of light to the commoners, who are mostly living under an iron rule imposed by such societies. This would then become a sort of 'vigilantes against dark rulers'.
It's all about what your original intentions on both of these parts (character powers and dark world) were, and how far you need, or want, to twist them to fit them together.
2) System
When I fist started to develop this game, D20 Modern was on the horizen, and I wanted something that I could play with one of my crowds of freinds that would be compatiable with D&D, as it was one of two systems that they really identified with. However, as time has gone on, D20 seems more and more to be a poor choice for this game. it doesn't really allow for the type of action I want to see. While True20 also had some hope, as I could convert a lot of the previous work over easily to it, it really doesn't seem like a good choice either. The question comes down to, do I adopt a different, already extablished system, and mold my game to it, or do I try to strike out on my own, and try to figure out how to build a system that is true to the source and insperational materials.
From my experience with D20, it ironically doesn't fit very well for settings which require special combat maneuvers or unarmed combat. It has a few standard things you can do during combat, but the rules are complex. However, it lacks targeting zones, a good wound system, and it doesn't really allow for simple modifications on attacks based on what combatants want to do.
Not that you can't use D20 if it suits your need well enough, but you might then have to either add more rules, or cut corner.
I would suggest you look over Wushu (if there's an English version, I only know the German one). It's a descriptive system that encourages players to go crazy with their characters, and it supports great powers and martial arts, hence the name.
3) Time
I admit, the concept which I have is a rather narrow one. It might be of interest to me, and it can be exciting for my freinds the few times we did get a chance to play and run with this, but it might not be for everyone. Should I bother making what is effectivly a specialized setting for general public consumption? There are many games I can think of that went the specialized route and failed. Is it worth the time to do? (I think so, but that might not mean anything)
Your own opinion on this particular matter means everything. It's your game. If you enjoy making it, and I you like what is soming out, then go on ahead and create it. A lot of the fun comes from the creation process. Whether others will like it or not I can't really say at this point, because all I've got is your basic idea. It sounds nice, but that's all I can tell about it for now.
On a different note: Would it be so bad if only you and your friends played this game? If you guys enjoy it and have your merry time playing, then it was worth it. With the amount of fan-created RPGs out there today, wide recognition is probably only given to a select few. However, with the number of people who play RPGs, there might be someone who enjoys your system as well.
Again, if you like it, then create it.
Hope I could help.
Qi
On 8/30/2006 at 4:27pm, Doug Ruff wrote:
RE: Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
Hi Kensan!
In response to your questions:
Kensan_Oni wrote:
1) Intent
A lot of the world creation is tied into serious stuff, and this kinda bellies the abilities of the charecters. Is it okay to have a game deal with such issues while on another level have really weird powerful charecters with all the martial arts feel and things?
I think it's a plus point. Martial arts heroes are more interesting if they are fighting for a cause.
Kensan_Oni wrote:
2) System
The question comes down to, do I adopt a different, already extablished system, and mold my game to it, or do I try to strike out on my own, and try to figure out how to build a system that is true to the source and insperational materials.
That's a question of personal choice. There are plenty of established systems that will allow you to play in your chosen style - if you want to find one of these, I'd recommend checking out RPG.net and starting a thread there. If you want to design your own system, you're already in the right place - but it never hurts to check out what other people have done before you.
Kensan_Oni wrote:
3) Time
Should I bother making what is effectivly a specialized setting for general public consumption? There are many games I can think of that went the specialized route and failed. Is it worth the time to do? (I think so, but that might not mean anything)
It's worth your time if you're enjoying yourself doing it. To answer a question with a question, do you mean "failed" as in a commercial failure, or a bad game?
I'd also like to ask you another question. It looks like your game is about heroic martial arts and social/political philosophy. Are you interested in having the two interact mechanically (as in, philosophical issues have an impact on the outcome of martial arts conflicts, and possibly vice versa?) Or do you intend for the martial arts 'combat system' to operate independently of these wider issues?
Regards,
Doug
On 8/30/2006 at 9:23pm, Kensan_Oni wrote:
RE: Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
It's worth your time if you're enjoying yourself doing it. To answer a question with a question, do you mean "failed" as in a commercial failure, or a bad game?
I'd also like to ask you another question. It looks like your game is about heroic martial arts and social/political philosophy. Are you interested in having the two interact mechanically (as in, philosophical issues have an impact on the outcome of martial arts conflicts, and possibly vice versa?) Or do you intend for the martial arts 'combat system' to operate independently of these wider issues?
Well, I mean as a commerical failure. If I run the game, it rarely turns out to be a failure... that one Iron Hero's game doesn't count. :D
I never thought of that possibility, to be honest. As the design stands at this time, the social/political conflict was designed as a reason for the charecters to end up doing what they are doing, giving players factions to choose to side with, and game masters something to work with. The most I had experimented with the idea was creating specialized classes for the four main factions of the game.
While I sort of like the idea, I am not sure if something like that would work. It seems to add another level of complication and recordkeeping, which might distract from the speedy feel that one would want in this kind of game.
...
I COULD design a system for this game. I just feel that this kind of thing would be better off as a supplemental support for another game. However, I already have a system I am developing for a different reason, and feel I should put aside that project so that I can finish off this one for now.
On 8/31/2006 at 8:28am, Qi Chin wrote:
RE: Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
Connecting the two does not have to add any more complication. You can either state the philosophical issues as "stats" which are simply something added to a check, or use them as counters which can rise and fall (sort of like longterm, background related HP).
A speedy feeling usually comes from a simple mechanic that is used for all checks, or at least that's a start. Modifiers, especially if they don't need tables, don't really slow it down.
Qi
On 8/31/2006 at 4:48pm, Doug Ruff wrote:
RE: Re: Quandery of which direction to go...
Kensan,
For a very quick example of how you can mix combat and philosophy without adding complexity:
- check out The Pool - it's a very simple system, and available here
- instead of the sample character block, consider this example:
Master of Kung Fu +2
Defender of the oppressed +1
Driven by vengeance for the death of his family +2
Member of Nine Heavenly Tigers gang (no bonus)
6 free dice
I'm not suggesting you should design this way, just want to show you that it's possible. There are lots of other games that do this (the Forge is chock full of 'em, in fact.)
Re: comercial success. Based on my (limited) knowledge of the market, small press games are more likely to do well if they have a tight focus. The trick is getting people interested in what you're focussing on. (Plus having a decent product to begin with.)
Games which are marketed as 'generic' face very stiff competition from established brands, and are less likely to have a Unique Selling Point.
Regards,
Doug