Hi guys,

Due to changes in Issaries publishing policy, which have been in place for a little while now, this forum can't be held at the Forge any more. I'm announcing here that it will close on December 1 of this year. I figure that will give folks time to re-group, maybe set up an alternate if they'd like, and so on.

The forum will of course remain as an archive, but it'll be closed for posting.

Best, Ron

Why? It seems easy enough to comply with Issaries' Informal License Checklist (http://www.glorantha.com/inc/web_site_checklist.html).

My guess is that it has to do with Issaries giving Moon Designs the publishing reigns for HeroQuest products: http://www.glorantha.com/news/ann_06_01.html

Which means it's out of Greg's direct control and therefore no longer creator controlled/owned.

WildElf wrote:
My guess is that it has to do with Issaries giving Moon Designs the publishing reigns for HeroQuest products: http://www.glorantha.com/news/ann_06_01.html

Which means it's out of Greg's direct control and therefore no longer creator controlled/owned.

What kinds of Gloranthan activities are outside of this policy?
Most things aren't covered. Continue doing the following as before with:

    * Your game or campaign.
    * Posting conversational stuff on newsgroups like the Yahoo groups or the Glorantha Digest
    * Posting campaign write-ups on the above, or your website
    * Writing reviews, critiques and other "fair use" types of things.

this is really very bad news....

Ron, have you actually spoken with the authorities in question, or are you closing it because you believe we are in violation?

Otherwise this thread is likely to devolve into pointless division.

Guys?

I think that the forum is closing because of the Forge's policy (no forums for non-creator controlled games) and because Issaries won't let us.

yrs--
--Ben

This is very sad...

I'm an enthusiastic lurker of this forum, and it would be a pity to see the people here, present and future, disperse into different forums.

I wonder if a forum could be implemented, and a link to it kept on the Forge, since this forum benefits a lot from its presence in this website?

Ron wrote:
Due to changes in Issaries publishing policy, which have been in place for a little while now, this forum can't be held at the Forge any more.

I've been expecting this for a while, actually. I don't want to speculate on Ron's reasons, nor do I think that they need challenging. But the way I see it, the sale of the rights to publish to Moon Design is exactly the sort of move away from "Creator Owned" that makes a game "non-indy." That is, while, yes, Greg retains creative control, Glorantha materials will no longer be published unless Moon Designs decides to do so. Meaning that people other than the creators are deciding what gets published.

So, Ron's opinions aside, it seems to me like they violate the Forge mandate to only have creator owned games on the site. Keep in mind that this is not the same thing as saying that Moon Design is bad, or HQ is bad, or anything like that. It's just moved away from the spirit of this site, somewhat. No big deal from that POV.

In any case, the forum will remain her, inactive, so people can still link to it and such. The real question is where we're all moving. There are several likely sites that would make sense, I think. Before suggesting a few, I'd like to hear other people's suggestions. Consider the nature of the site, and whether we'd be truely welcome before suggesting a site.

Of course, not everyone has to go to whatever site we might come to a consensus on. But we can all state where we'd like to go, or intend to go, and thus be informed as to where we also might like to go. This might cause some sorting to happen, which might be a good thing.

Of course, included in any suggestions, if somebody wants to start up a new site, throw your hat in and see if there's any support for it. I'm actually more for consolidating sites than creating more HQ sites (there actually was a thread about this recently in the HQ rules list). But if somebody has a better way of doing things, let's hear it.

Thanks,
Mike

Although not a very active member of this community, I've always been very impressed recently with the very open discussions that have happened here about HeroQuest, that have resulted from play or are focused  about producing something for actual play. Mike in his time as a member of the Molad has certainly influenced several of us for the better in the way that we run our games and write our scenarios. I would be very sad to see that disappear.

I'm in the process of creating a site for the Masters of Luck and Death (MoLad) demo team and I'd be more than happy to host a forum on the site, since the mission of the MoLad is to encourage Actual play of HeroQuest.

I'd like to echo Mike's request to hear what people would want from such a forum, to build up rules and guidelines as sort of "Terms of Reference" for the forum, since I've previously set up a forum on the Ring of HeroQuest Narrator's site without one and it ended up pretty random as well as painfully slow traffic wise.

Ooh, I'd say that this choice has probably, for me, just leapt up to #1. Thanks, Newt.

Mike

Mike is correct in full. Issaries has not dictated or decreed anything to me about it. It's my doing based on two incontrovertible facts:

1. Prior to the new arrangement with Moon Design, HeroQuest (and its predecessor Hero Wars) was an independent RPG by Forge standards. No compromise of ideas or fudgy grey areas were necessary to say so, based on my discussions with Greg during 2000-2001.

2. Since that arrangement, it is not any more. Similarly, that's not ambiguous or guessy on my part. "Independence" has a specific meaning at this site and does not accord with many snap-associations based on other industries, nor does it match 1:1 to the concept of IP.

None of this is a bad thing and there's no reason to make it into any kind of debate. I hope for and support the cause of a new forum at the Masters of Luck and Death site. As I said before, this forum will remain as an archive; maybe it will become a foundation or library for the new one.

Best, Ron

Ron, it would have been good to have that explanation up front.

I don't think anyone made the leap from "Due to changes in Issaries publishing policy," to "Since that arrangement, it is not [independent] any more."  I know I didn't.

That being said, I totally understand, and look forward to posting a URL for a switchover.

...look forward to SEEING a POSTED URL that is...

Good luck over at MOLAD. I also would offer the Tavern BBS as a place for intelligent chat about fantasy gaming and a good home for HeroQuesters.

http://tavern.zunder.org.uk/

Just positing a wild idea. What about Mythic Russia? Isn't it indie in the Forge sense? Then Mark, in case he has any interest in it, could ask for a forum here. It would not be a heroquest forum, though.

Sebastian.

As a side note, there is nothing to stop anyone framing HQ posts as actual play, granted not all of the posts in this corner are actual play related, but many could be, and many would benefit from this more focused approach. I will probably take this route and hope others will chip in too. I tend to go there first to read anyway, and I believe there is still a lot to say about HQ that fits perfectly into that arena.

So whats happening ? Is there a new place where we continue the spirit of this forum ?

Personally I'm waiting for Newt to announce the MOLAD site. At the moment I haven't seen any better idea (though I still have to check out Tom's site).

Mike

Hi all,

I would like to see some way of combining a lot of lists that deal with the HeroQuest engine as opposed to setting. I think that anyone posting at hq-rules would certainly benefit from the understanding many people here have about topics like conflict vs. task resolution, making failure create story, etc. Mike has done a sterling job there, but with new HQ variants appearing it might be good to center HQ engine experience in one, accessible place.

I don't know that hq-rules is necessarily the right place, but if we could create the go-to place for the HQ engine (and encourage hq-rules to migrate there) we might go someway to controlling lis proliferation.

Howdo

Just a small update. I'm hoping to get the meat of the MoLad website done this weekend. I'm using a Content management System, probably Joolma, to provide a robust website were users can upload articles, example heroes, and have a journal/blog etc If you remember the Ring of HeroQuest Narrators, this is the sort of site I'm looking to create.

Regarding the Forum, I'm almost 100% going to go with the same software (simple machines) that the Forge uses.

I'm looking at a go live date around mid November.

Ian,

I'm torn, somewhat.

You're probably right about HQ Rules, that it should be the place to discuss all of this sort of stuff. You make an excellent point that it makes sense to consolidate, especially with so small a community. Even if it wasn't on Rules, we probably should consolidate somewhere. I certainly don't want to be part of fragmenting it any further than it must be.

But I think that some of what I (and others like me) have to say isn't topical for the Rules list and/or not welcome by a substantial portion of the people there. For my sake, and theirs, it might be best if I didn't migrate everything there.

And, in any case, I prefer fora (with mail notification) to mailing lists for this sort of discussion. Personal thing. Newt has been infinitely patient with me in the past, and seems to be putting up what I like. Plus, since I'm a MoLaD member, it seems to be a really good fit.

Does the fact that it's a MOLAD site seem to you to have any downsides to it?

Since this forum is closing, I'm thinking that we're doing no further harm by starting another up. Or am I being myopic or too self-centered?

BTW, I checked out the Tavern (Tom Zunder's site), and from an admittedly cursory look over the place I get the feeling I wouldn't be too welcome over there, either. If I've gotten the wrong impression, please let me know.

Mike

But I think that some of what I (and others like me) have to say isn't topical for the Rules list and/or not welcome by a substantial portion of the people there. For my sake, and theirs, it might be best if I didn't migrate everything there.

And, in any case, I prefer fora (with mail notification) to mailing lists for this sort of discussion. Personal thing.

BTW, I checked out the Tavern (Tom Zunder's site), and from an admittedly cursory look over the place I get the feeling I wouldn't be too welcome over there, either.

<rant>
Please, if you are going to create a new community hangout, go with something a little more friendly than:
- a mailing list
- yahoo

Thanks :).

Anyway, just like people assuming everyone has AIM (AOL == evil), asking everyone who is interested in the slightest to create a Yahoo account just to access a mailinglist which has a terrible archive interface to boot is a bit much.
</rant>

Ok what I'm developing at this stage is the following;

The Molad site will have a forum

That forum will use simple machines forum (which is the same software as here)

which notifies users via email of

• new posts in threads they are subscribed to
• new posts in forums they have subscribed to

As well as general Molad events, questions about glorantha forums, there will be a forum called

The Anvil

This is intended to be the new home of the present Forge community, and have a similar scope.

Hi all,

Newt, the Anvil suggestion looks cool,

I am also torn with the consolidation issue, but I think the gap between HQ players with a narrativist theory focus and new players just trying to get to grips with the basic rules is quite big. I was on the other side of the gap for quite some time, and I found the learning curve steep.

I know from my fellow players and other forums that there is a strong anti-forge feeling around, mostly born out of misunderstanding of what theory is in general, and also because the jargon terms used provide a barrier to understanding obscuring the simplicity and non-threatening nature of the theories.

Indeed there is a gap even within this forum, but at least we attempt to use a common language here, and we can usually find a way to communicate without frustration.

The only way I can see of consolidating would be to have two or more forums on the same site, one that substitutes for the HQ-rules list (which was never suited to yahoo groups anyway) and others that focus on theory, variants, house rules etc.

Also, it would be a good idea not to rely on the forge articles. These may require a bit of work but a simplified glossary (ideally linkable to individual terms) and an article on HQs place in theory would be worth their weight in gold for anyone wanting to take the leap from one forum to the other. (I could help with these if people think they are worth persuing.)

I willing to bet that by "a similar scope" that Newt wasn't saying that it would neccessarily be like this forum entirely in tennor or anything. I think you may be over-reading, Jaime.

OTOH, at the moment it's going to have me - which given that I'm still around 5% of The Forge...

I think that any "gap" in terms of playstyle or understanding of anything shouldn't be Newt's concern. And the chances that HQ-Rules is going to close down to come over to Newt's site is, I think pretty small. Though, who knows.

Christian, I was hardly thinking about you - you've always been quite tolerant. There are characters out there who make you look like a saint by comparison.

Mike

So where exactly is this forum group migrating to?  Is there a URL and an approximate go-live date?

My apologies if this has been made clear elsewhere.  I didn't see it in the thread.

Best,

Blake

Well, there seems to be at least a little diaspora happening here, Blake. All I can say is that I'll be at Newt's new site when it goes live. I assume some others will come on over. But I'm sure others will go elsewhere.

Mike

Thanks, Mike.  I'll sit tight and see where the new drinks are set up.

-Blake

OK final update, before I post the link and go live after this weekend.

I have gone with Simple Machines Forum, and in fact the same theme as here, so all the functionality that you have come to love and know here (specifically email notification of any new topics in a board you are watching) will be present over at the new board.

These will be the specific forums that I've set up on the board.

MolaD Events- Promote and discuss MolaD events here.
The Anvil - Discuss rules/settings coming from or leading to actual play
General HeroQuest discussion - A looser forum for discussion of HeroQuest, Questworlds and Mythic Russia
Off topic - Anything else outside of HeroQuest, Glorantha etc Basically a community chat forum.

The Anvil is pitched at you guys, while being accessible to new comers coming in from other HeroQuests lists or people that visit the MoLaD site after one of our convention games.

Bearing this in mind this is the introductory message to the Anvil

This goal of this forum is to help new or existing Narrators get to grips with running the game of HeroQuest they want to run.

This means this is a forum about ideas coming out of actual play or ideas leading to actual play . This means that the focus of this forum is not discussion about obscure Glorantha knowledge or blue skies thinking. Please take such discussions to General HeroQuest discussion

Rules for use of this forum

Number 1 rule: Be civil at all times. No excuses, break this rule and expect to be moderated immediately. First by warning by personal message, second a public warning, third by a thread lock or deletion. People who persistently break this rule will be banned, so play nice.

This is the place to discuss HeroQuest rules variants and expansions and using HeroQuest for alternative settings and conversions, as well as the standard rules and Glorantha.

Be aware that people may play fast and loose with established cannon and respect that

HeroQuest supports a variety of gaming styles, from freeform improvised storytelling to very precise by the numbers simulation gaming.  Keep in mind that there is no right or wrong way to run HeroQuest and respect the playing styles of others.

GNS (Gamist, Narrativist, Simulationist) theory while a very useful tool for examining styles of play is not familiar to everyone. Please reference or explain any points you make, do not assume others know what it is. Do not start a post with 'unless you know what GNS theory is do not post in this thread' or similar, that breaks our 'Be civil' rule. This goes for any gaming theory you might be discussing in relation to HeroQuest.

The above may sound harsh, but its only to give us all clear guidelines to abide by to avoid any misunderstanding or personal attacks during discussions that may become heated or passionate.

I'm sorry to see the old forum go.  I've enjoyed what I've read here.

Mr. Wrong.  I've made a few attempts to find your Anvil/Masters of Luck and Death forum and cannot.  What is the url please?

I'll be lurking in the new forum.

Rylen

The Masters of Luck and Death forum is now live

Go to
http://molad.org/forum/

FYI I've revised the Anvil rules for use, to make them shorter and more friendlier in tone. The last set were written in the office with my work head on and confused even me!!!!

They are a nice summing up of what the new board is intended to reflect.

This is a forum about ideas coming out of actual play or ideas leading to actual play .

This goal is to help new or existing Narrators run the game of HeroQuest they want to run.

Rules for use of this forum

    * Number 1 rule: Be civil at all times. Break this rule and expect to be moderated immediately, no excuses. First by warning by private message, second publically, third by a post deletion or thread lock. Persistent offenders will be banned.
    * This is the place to discuss HeroQuest rules variants, rules expansions, alternative settings and conversions.
    * HeroQuest supports a variety of gaming styles, from free form improvised storytelling to very precise by the numbers simulation gaming.  Keep in mind that there is no right or wrong way to run HeroQuest
    * Any gaming theory while a very useful tool for examining styles of play may not familiar to everyone. Please reference or explain any points you make, do not assume others know.

The above is to give us all clear guidelines to abide by to avoid any misunderstanding or personal attacks during discussions that may become heated or passionate.

Above all remember its just a game and have fun

Doh the links don't work!! (some extra characters got stuck in the URL and I can't edit it out)

Here we go http://molad.org/forum/

This one works
Plus I fixed the ones in the first post
That's three links! Check the new site out - RE