Greetings fellow imaginers,

For twenty years I've designed RPGs the old fashioned way---using my art, my writing, a crowded kitchen table and several landfills worth of notebooks. Having recently discovered the potential of web RPGs, I'm hoping to take my ambition to a venue where the possibilities and audience are virtually limitless.

That being said, I lack one important quality to make this happen:  web design and programming.

My idea is not a new one--to take the pen and paper games and move them to the web, making character creation, dice rolling, combat, item acquisition and exploration a virtual journey on the computer rather than an imaginary jaunt at my kitchen table.  I'm hoping to create an accessible world where any GM eager for content can set his campaigns, bring his friends, and tell his own stories while interacting with other players from across the web.

To this end I have a trove of ideas, artwork, settings and stories, along with theories about game mechanics and interactivity. However, I lack a collaborator with the know-how to create and implement the site, and design the code to run it.

What I'm hoping for is a response with some links to Web Designers with the skill to handle something like this, and a price tag to go along with it. Consider me very new to this venue, and eager to learn.

I've been telling stories in MMORPGs for many years, and hope to simulate much of that experience in a web format---I'd be happy to provide samples of writing, art, and design ideas to anyone interested in collaboration, but for now I'm mostly just looking for a place to start.

Thanks very much for everyone's time, and happy RPing

Ideally what I'm looking for is the capability to build sort of an "mmo lite" driven by text, illustrations, and minimal programming where characters have the option to interact with other live players in a variety of different 'zones' (planets, cities, etc), encounter enemies, and engage in stories driven by NPCs and GMs who have the tools to build their own adventures via the website (spawn enemies, NPC party members, loot, and what have you).

For example:

Rell Ubana the Drongolian Pirate (a player) flies his ship to Ice Comet Yminsk, a partly-colonized comet where roughshod miners co-exist with a prison drilled into the far side of the rock.

-A page offering basic sensory details of the location (activity, smells, local history) pops up along with an illustration of the comet. The player then has the option to land at one of several branching locations.

-Rell lands at 'Stowaway' Platform, where downtrodden ice miners toil in zero gravity. Here he would discover a chat room where other players and NPCs exist, conversing, RPing, doing business and what have you. A new illustration and info page replaces the Ice Comet to fit the new setting.

This is just a rudimentary idea of what I'm aiming for. How feasible / expensive would a site like this be?

What a pleasure to see a well-formed and literate posting on this topic, even if the Forge is an unlikely site to find any serious help. For some reason most CRPG-related messages we get here are hopelessly confused.

Yeah, my reason for posting was just to compliment your post, I don't have anything majorly useful to say. While I have some rudimentary skill in the area of web programming, I'm not looking to implement another guy's projects myself. I suspect that this is so for the majority of people at this forum; we're mostly at the creative end of the scale ourselves, so if there's a hankering for making a computer game, most of us will want to design it ourselves instead of coding for another designer. On the positive side this means that you're in similar company here; we're all making our own games.

In case you're totally newbie with web programming: what you describe sounds like eminently doable with a dash of server-side programming (PHP being one good language for that), client scripting (javascript is the thing) and databases (SQL). The whole enchilada even doesn't have to be too work-intensive, larger projects have been done for kicks. If the general concept is still vague, you should probably look into utilizing an already existing data control system, like a wiki. Anyway, I'm definitely not the best person to discuss the technical details, especially if you already have some knowledge in the field.

As an answer to your question, I'm under the impression that server space, PHP, SQL database and a terminal connection can be had for around $150 a year or so to begin with. Of course the numbers are up to the market, so it all depends on who you deal with. Could go up or down (especially depending on the server load), but that's the magnitude. I suggest that your project can go pretty far without investing even that much, as long as it's planned well. Paying for web services should be a pretty late development that happens when the project is almost ready to be published.

Also, the implied question: if you want a professional to program this stuff for you... going with market prices you'd be paying around $5000 (again, with a huge leeway; I'm just pulling these figures from my hat) for really competitive set-up programming, and you'd have to pay more for any upkeep and update work. In practice you'd do best to hire some young gamer types to do it for a fraction (one-tenth of the real prices would be lucrative for somebody who'd be willing to consider it a hobby project), but then you're working with certain knowledge of flakeouts and quality assurance problems. Your pick as to which problem to deal with.

A thought on where to begin: your best bet seems to me to be learning web programming for yourself. For a person with rudimentary knowledge in the computer sciences this is something like a weekend's time commitment to begin with, and the rest can be learned during the project. This way you don't have to depend on luring another person to work on it. And that is really good because to be frank, finding a skilled programmer who wants to starts a project like this with somebody else in the creative end is not just lucky, it's a miracle. And having that person stay motivated to the end of the project is miracle squared.

Where to go from here: as I see it, there's a couple of things that could be discussed here at the Forge:
- Your design document: if you're going to lure a competent web designer as your partner, you'll need to design like a pro. And that means a detailed, sensible and inspiring design document that you can throw on the table as the first thing. Considering the flake-rate of internet you need to absolutely convince your prospective partner that your project is more than hot air if you're to get anybody interested.
- The technical matters: you would probably get more knowledgeable and on-the-edge information at a technical forum, but at least we're symphatetic to your goals. And who knows, we might get lucky and somebody writes here soon to tell that he's looking for a designer to partner with.
- Self-teaching: if you're serious about wanting to design a web-based game, we could get you started on learning the technological basis so you could program it yourself. I could imagine collecting a couple of good links on HTML, CSS, PHP and SQL and writing a bit about the pedagogy of learning the stuff, if you're interested.
If any of the above avenues of investigation seem sensible to you, feel free to start new threads about them at the appropriate forums. Alternatively/additionally start seeking for more programming-oriented help, if you feel that you have the design side well in hand. I suggest looking for grass-roots electronic game design communities oriented towards independent work and innovative ideas; the internet has plenty of those, and you're much more likely to find programmers looking for designers there than here.

As for programming, really, just PHP can do the trick. For an example, look up a little game called "Legend of the Green Dragon". For your chat rooms even, PHP scripts exist that will act as chat functions, update every second or so as people add messages.

I love coding and the like, and I would actually like the chance to work on a project with someone else (way to many of mine are solo, and its a brain drain as of late :P), but I fear I lack the time to dedicate. But, Eero's right- its fairly easy to pick up. Drop by your local library and pick up a couple of their 24 titles, starting with HTML first (which is a neccesity for webpage formatting), and I'd also look up a version of the BASIC programming language to nail the fundamentals of coding. Reason being: In order to run and test PHP programs on your computer, not on a host over the internet, you have to properly install a program called Apache, which even I have a problem with. At least with BASIC, you have everything you need, and you write code in what amounts to english-
[code]
Print "I like cheese!"
End
[/code]
will do exactly what it says- It will print "I like cheese!" on the screen, and then end the program. That'll get your fundamentals down, get you used to feeding the PC the logic in the right fashion, and the rest is learning syntax and picking up some shortcuts/workarounds/tricks for smoother and faster operation.
$150's around ballpark, depends on your bandwidth requirements. Thats a little more than $10 a month, course some services can be had for less. In terms of software, you don't need anything special to do this: notepad will suffice. Other free programs are out there, however, that will make life easier, such as when there is an error in a line you'll be able to jump right to it. Couple that with a basic, free FTP program (I use an old one- WS_FTP95), and its easy to launch.

Thanks very much for the well thought-out replies!

Eero, consider me much obliged for the compliments. Having worked in a corporate environment for many years, and written volumes of RP stories, it's difficult for me to ignore the grammar and composition angels that sit on my shoulders when I write. Sometimes they serve me well!

You make an excellent point about finding programmers without a cause of their own---I liken it to indie comic artists without a self made project. A very rare animal indeed. That said, I hope once my website is up and I have an available link to my concepts, artwork and ideas, it will tantalize someone enough that they might be willing to chip in (certainly an offer of greenbacks for services rendered doesn't hurt either).  Failing that, I'll keep researching the grassroots designers you referenced and see if anything sticks.

As for self-programming:  I considered long and hard the feasibility of learning the tools and implementing them myself, but when it comes to numbers and code I'm classically all thumbs. I've made a list of resources to check out that sound a bit more user friendly (Wikis, for example, have come up a lot).  On a related note, given the quantity of art and writing I'll need to create for the project, I could run into some serious burnout if I'm trying to juggle the programming chores as well.  But should all else fail, I'll be back with my hat in my hand to see what I can learn!

Moose:

I'm hoping to have my website up in the next couple of weeks, at which time I'll be posting a link to my design documents, concept art, etc.

I'll reach out to you via PM once it's available, and you can decide whether you'd like to participate! Hopefully you'll see something that whets your appetite. Even if it's only on an advisory / hobby basis, any help is always appreciated.

Thanks again