Hello all,

I'm trying to develop a game that combines the strategy and planning of a  tabletop miniature game with the randomness of a collectible card game.  Nothing innovative or "never been done before" this time, just two games that encourage distinctly opposite play styles.

Wait for a good card or jockey for field position...and the innumerable degrees between the two poles.

Here's what we got so far...

Players maneuver pieces around on a field of hex sqaures.

Pieces effect changes upon each other and the field itself either through their base "stats", or through cards played.

That's the basics...the "immovable rules" of the game so to speak.  Where it gets fancy is with the materials themselves.  Different "units" with different abilities, or whose presence changes gameplay options, and the cards themselves whose whole purpose is to change the game from a basic board game and into something else.

So any suggestions?  Advice?  Dire warnings?

Have you seen any of the Command & Colors series?

Gettysburg, Memoir '44, Ancients ?  They are card driven miniatures based board games where all of the orders and maneuvers are driven by card play and "waiting for the right card" may well get you killed forcing you to "assault as best you can with the cards you have"...pretty effective way to mirror fog of war and command and control issues in a simple easy to play format.

GMT has also spawned some harder more "wargamey" versions using counters instead of minis and cards that are alot more crunchy than the Command & Colors series.

I'm going to give them a look-see.

This in particular will probably mimick a standard D&D session, with cards to "level", equipment cards, cards that replicate the machinations of an evil GM, etc.

If this works, I think I might re-apply the idea to a crunchier version.

In that case you'll also want to check out Dungeoneer for inspiration.  Its very much an old school dungeon crawl with cards to create the map, monsters, traps, treasure, and the like.

Descent is similar but where Dungeoneer is primarily cards, Descent is primarily minis with cards added (and some really cool dice).

The Piquet, wargames rules make use of cards, to govern the actions of the figures on the table and are worth a look at.
Politics by other Means, is an adaptation of Matrix games ideas to combine with wargaming with figures, and though used with "argumants"to affect action, coould be used with cards and certainly both would prove useful as options and ideas and to see what has already been done.

Best
JW

Hereward wrote:
The Piquet, wargames rules make use of cards, to govern the actions of the figures on the table and are worth a look at.
Politics by other Means, is an adaptation of Matrix games ideas to combine with wargaming with figures, and though used with "argumants"to affect action, coould be used with cards and certainly both would prove useful as options and ideas and to see what has already been done.

Strange Synergies is very elegent.  Players have three team members who manouevre on a small board in a 'capture the flag' game.  Each has basic abilities to move up to 2 squares once and melee combat once per round for 1 hitpoint of damage. 

Where the strange synergies come in is that at startup, players draw 9 cards each from a deck of 100+ 'powers' which  modify the basic abilities of the character they assign the card to, or give it some new ability.  each character must be assigned 3  cards each. Each card isnt much in itself, but combined with other cards you can create quite a powerful character if you do it right.

i.e. 'Jet Skates' gives the characetr the power to move in a stright line up to the length of the entire board.
'Minotaur Horns' gives the characetr the ability to combine movement with a collision attack that does 1 point of damage for each square moved.

individually, these powers are handy, but combined into the same character, it can be devestating.

it may not sound like much, but its a very elegent game and has excellent replay and yuks value.

(I reckon its about 3 seconds before you know who knocks this thread on the head!)

I don't know how much this will help but I picked up a copy of Wargods and it used chits for orders.  i.e.  They would turn over the chits when it was their unit's turn to follow orders.  So, I have seen it where cards are used to keep orders seperate.  I have also played with D&D minis...cards used to keep track of creature stats.

Are you looking at something like:

1. having a pile of command cards
2. Each unit turn (or whatever) having a number of cards being drawn, based on commander ability
3. Choosing a card and using it for a command...
4  Discarding cards?

Ok...I gave you a really rough idea that may or may not have merit.

In any case, it would be interesting to see what other ideas you have come up with.

Sean

Hello Scott,

I like miniature battle games, at the individual level and unit level. Cards are great for drama and unique tactics that can be used during the game.

Your cards will need to tie in seamlessly with the overall theme, basic movement and combat mechanics. Otherwise, they become alien and preposterous. Example: having a squad of marines suddenly fly over a chasm to reach the enemy bunker. First, look at the miniatures you want to use, how they can form units, what basic actions they can take and the resolutions.

You could have four different cards:
friendly: these cards directly affect the movement, combat value, special maneuvers, commands and tactics of a unit in your possession
enemy: these directly affect the enemy
situation: changes terrain, creates obstacles, adds land mines, etc. that could affect both sides
game: modifies the number of cards drawn, held, used or discarded

The friendly cards can be as simple as:
Move through rough terrain as if it were normal
Unit moves covertly taking no fire this turn
Inspiring commands give +2 to unit's combat value
Use one-shot rocket launcher
Instead of firing, closest unit relays enemy weakness to next nearest friendly unit giving +2 combat value
Mortar fire: inflict 5 damage to an enemy unit more than 10 spaces away from a friendly unit
Rush: double movement on normal terrain with +3 combat value and -2 defense
Heal damage on one unit

Enemy cards let you play them against an enemy unit forcing them to do something:
Enemy unit is pinned this round preventing them from moving
Garbled commands force random movement with direction die
Enemy unit fires on target specified by opposition this round
Enemy unit fires on own friendly unit
Enemy unit fires randomly with direction die
Enemy unit cannot heal damage this round

Situation cards let you affect the battlefield and game:
Land mines: skirt them or navigate through them taking 3 damage
Hidden bunker: provides +2 defense but doesn't count as an objective
Impassable fortifications: must skirt

Game cards let you affect the game:
Discard one card
Discard all cards and draw three
Use one more card than normal this round
Pick one random card from other player's hand
Let other player pick one random card from your hand
Swap all cards with other player

Cards are played in one of four phases listed on the card:
Instant: these are played as the player draws them from the stack. All game-affecting cards are instant.
Movement: these are played during the friendly movement phase.
Combat: these are played during the friendly combat phase.
End: these are played after the friendly combat phase AND before the opposing player moves his units. Almost all enemy cards are played in this phase.

Command ability has two effects. It determines the minimum number of cards drawn and allowed in the hand. It determines the minimum number of cards played during the combat, movement and end phases.

Friendly, enemy, situation and game cards are placed in the same stack and shuffled. A player's hand is limited to the number of units they have. At the beginning of  their turn a player draws a number of cards equal to the number of units they have. If a player draws a game-affecting card, they must stop drawing cards, follow the instructions on the game card and do NOT draw more cards. If they draw an instant action card then they play it immediately and continue drawing cards.
After drawing their cards, the players discard the ones they don't want, roll a d6 (fog of war) and play that number of cards from their hand. If a player has 10 units and command ability of 3, the maximum number of cards they can play from their hand of 10 is 6 while the minimum they can play is 3.
Friendly, enemy and situation cards are kept secret in their hand until played.

The players can move and fire their units once per turn in addition to action cards they play.
Command ability starts at 1 for both players. Objectives are positions on the terrain that units much reach. The objectives have different purposes depending on the scope of the game:
Asset: the side that reaches this position first gains a permanent +1 to command ability. It confers a one-time bonus and cannot be taken or transferred.
Checkpoint: the side that reaches this position first gains a permanent +1 to command ability. It can be reached by both sides. Of course, once a unit reaches this position they will want to prevent the enemy from reaching it.
Strategic position: each side must reach this position first to gain a temporary +1 to command ability. It can be taken by the enemy and the bonus is transferred to the new occupant. Each side could be assigned strategic positions at the beginning, increasing command ability and they become points of contest.
Flag: this is an end-game objective. You win by capturing the enemy's flag.

Units have combat value and damage cap. The unit rolls a number of d6 equal to the number of troops. Damage cap is the maximum amount of damage allowed per die. If the damage cap is 4 then any 5's and 6's are discarded. The effective dice are summed, combat value is added and the total is applied against the enemy. The enemy has a defense value which is subtracted from the total damage sustained.

If the total damage is greater than the number of troops then a troop is removed and the wound chits are reduced to the number of troops. If the total damage is greater than twice the number of troops then two troops are removed and wound chits are reduced to the number of troops. Damage equal to three times the number of troops destroys the unit. This simulates pinning a unit with fire, reducing troop effectiveness and reducing defense at the same time.

Here's an interesting way to handle residual damage: a unit can take a number of hits up to half the number of troops in the unit before it is immobilized. When immobilized, the unit cannot move but can still fire. At the beginning of each turn a player removes one wound chit from each unit. If the amount of damage remaining is less than half the number of troops then the unit is mobile again. Residual damage is applied to the total damage taken during the next attack.

Troy