Dear aspiring (or accomplished) designers of role-playing games! We have seen thousandfold how clever rules design can change the game being played. But what about setting, I ask? Now is the time to prove how clever setting design can change the game being played! Therefore, I issue the Challenge to you:

Design a setting for an already existing game system. To be certain: By setting I mean the elements of the shared imagined space that you, the author, define for the players. You may leave some stuff open, switches, dials and blanks, but you must pre-set a solid amount of content.

If the game system you want to use is not under some open license, please make sure you have the publisher’s permission to use it.

Your setting qualifies for this contest if it
- references the games system it was designed for,
- is presented in a .pdf or .doc file with no more than 10,000 words of text and
- is available for download by the end of December.

I will ask 1km1kt if they can host us.

Note: You may work together on an entry, but no one may work on more than one entry.

Everybody who submits a setting will also be involved in the judging. After the entry period is over, I will randomly and publicly distribute four settings to each participant. If you have co-authors, you can either submit a mutual judgement, or name one of yours to judge them all. You may participate in discussion about the entries before passing the judgement. In fact, this is encouraged.

Each judge has to award to each setting a score between 1 and 10. To award these points, the judges shall especially pay respect to the following aspects:
- How well is the game system integrated? How well does it seem to fit?
- How will the game presumably work in play, especially with regard to how the setting facilitates a certain kind of play?
- How complete, accessible and well presented is the material?
- How interesting, original, stylish and “juicy” is the setting?

The judgement has to be passed by January 15th. The scores are collected and made public when they are complete. As all votes will be public in the end, I see no problem with me collecting them even if I participate myself.

The four entries with the highest added scores then will forego the same procedure once again, this time with all participants judging them until December 31st. Thus, the winner will be determined. Please do not submit a setting if you cannot fulfill your judging duty.

But enough of words. Who doth accept the Challenge?

- Frank

P.S.: I will also post this to Story Games.

I, being of sound body and unsound mind, accept this challenge, as I wanted to make a setting for Sorcerer and Sword anyway!

Count me in. I'll submit a Swashbuckling setting for Wushu, and I even got a co-author - Sven Flottmann. (For those of you who are familiar with the Grofafo, he may be better known as 8t88. This guy is really a crack regarding Wushu, and he did a major part of the translation job to German.)

- Stefan

Hi Frank,

This sounds like a really fun challenge and thanks for putting it together.  I did have one question about the judging:

How well is the game system integrated? How well does it seem to fit?

This assumes that the entrants have played all of the systems referenced or are at least very familiar with them.  What happens when you get four entries to judge and are only comfortable with 1 or 2 of them?  How can you give the others an accurate score?

Thanks,
Chris B.
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

I'm in and my weapon of choice is TSOY.  Not sure what the setting will be about, but I don't really plan to start before December anyway.  My one thought is maybe Keys are keys in the setting too.  Maybe they're actually things you accomplish in order to open doorways of some variety.  And maybe Secrets are, y'know, deep dark secrets.  Yay for literalism!  But maybe I'm just saying that to throw everyone else off...

Two questions, Frank.

1. I assume that living in the Pacific doesn't disqualify me?

2. I already have, fully drafted but not playtested, an entire game based on Clinton Nixon's Solar System but with a medieval setting. Can I enter it? Or is that not the spirit of the contest?

Ha! I knew I forgot something.

Your entry must be written for the Challenge. You may not just dig up something you wrote years ago.

Chris, if you get to judge something and are not familiar with the game system, I guess you’ll have to just judge by what it looks like, and maybe give that point a little less emphasis.

- Frank

hi Frank,

Could I just ask for a bit more info on dates and deadlines? I see Dec 31st and Jan 15th mentioned above, just wondering of there is a set submission date for the entries and so forth?

Cheers
Malcolm

31st December: Deadline for entries
15th January: Deadline for first scoring round
31st January: Deadline for second scoring round

- Frank

Excellent, thanks Frank.

I assume that within the context of your setting, it's OK to make some of the system terms have slightly different definitions. As an example, I'm planning on using Contenders, but some of the stats will have slightly different meanings within the context of the setting, but the system will basically operate in the same mechanical way.

Cheers
Malcolm

Hello!

Sorry to interrupt,
I will not work together with StefanS.
He is a cool Guy and i really liked the idea to work together with him.
But: I am already drowned in Swahsbuckling-things (my Girlfriend is teh GM in our 7th Sea Round).
and: Stefan's Ideas and mine of the Settings are way too different (we chattet about it yesterday, and I reckognized that it just wouldn'T do the fun for both of us.
Because I have different Ideas to take on this challenge than him.)
Thou I hope to work with him some other Project.

I want to join the Challange.

The System I choose is Wushu. (suprisesuprise)

I want to do some Bad-Ass-Heoric-Grimm-and-Gritty-Epic-Fantasy-Thingy-Setting ;-)

See you around. May the Ideas flow to You like the Blood of the God's in my Setting.

Sorry4 my bad writing... I'll do better in the Contest.

One Question Frank:
If everyone who takes the challenge has a Googlemail account (I have some invitations left).
Then we can do this:
use docs.google.com and invite other Challengers as Viewers to our own Documents.

If you work in a Group everyone can edit the thing at anytime in Realtime.
Have a Googletalkchat at hand, you can Discuss your Produkt right while you type it.
Just an Idea.

See you around!
Sven.

I'll jump in here and remind folks that EABA has an Open Supplement License, so you're golden if you want to use it. Also, if you don't have it, I just released a free "test drive" version with basic character creation, combat and paranormal power rules. See:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=296821

for details.

Greg Porter
BTRC

Malcolm: Yes, tweaks to the game system are of course cosher.

Sven: Uh, I guess each team can arrange anything that seems suitable for their cooperation.

- Frank

Wow Greg I love how EABA looks
So I could use the EABA Lite and then add on supplments for use in this challange

Would you allow the taking of the ruleset and putting it into a How to Play the Game chapter essentially
Or would you prefer a Please see the EABA Lite PDF Available HERE sort of deal

But I just skimmed it and it looks lovely
I might just finally do my Tinkerwitch setting for this challenge instead of somethign brand new...

Thanks either way
Tad

I will spearhead a team submission for the Riddle of Steel.

Hans wrote:
I will spearhead a team submission for the Riddle of Steel.

I'll have to think about what i can put into 10.000 words, but I think I'm in with a little setting for the Fate-System...

I am in for the pleasure of thinking about it. Writing it down will be hard and may be my downfall.

My system of choice is Polaris, and the setting will be completely different from the original, except it too will represent a journey of sorts. Naturally, a lot of the rules will need changing and terms renaming.

Oh joy.

Cheers,
Mikael

I'd like to give this one a real try - i might just be able to put a booklet together by the end of the month.

As for the system, i was thinking using Sorcerer, unless Ron has any objections.

- Stefan L

Hello Frank,

A new thread! I'm in.

I'm still love the D6 system and am working on two settings for it. In a week I'll figure out which one I want to complete for submission.

This is gonna be great!

Troy

No objections to using Sorcerer! However, I'm pretty sure that even if I did object, there's no way for anyone to stop you. Have a good time!

Best, Ron

Man, I've gotta say that the hardest part of this contest is that I'm spoiled on thinking that setting should have influence in the rules; that is, I've got like maybe an idea or two, and I am eyeing the Solar System to do it, but I keep feeling like I need to write some keys, or secrets, or skills or whatever, specifically for this setting.  Since those are "rules", it's much harder than I anticipated to get started on my setting. Right out of the box I want to tinker with or expand upon the rules. :-)

So, I have to take a step back and maybe consider an even more generic system maybe, one that I'm not so hot to configure. That will let me pull back from "tinker mode" and look more directly at creating the setting itself.

-Andy

Andy wrote:
Man, I've gotta say that the hardest part of this contest is that I'm spoiled on thinking that setting should have influence in the rules; that is, I've got like maybe an idea or two, and I am eyeing the Solar System to do it, but I keep feeling like I need to write some keys, or secrets, or skills or whatever, specifically for this setting.  Since those are "rules", it's much harder than I anticipated to get started on my setting. Right out of the box I want to tinker with or expand upon the rules. :-)

Entirely subject to Frank's judgment - I would like to throw whatever influence I may have on this contest into full support for Eero's point. I strongly suggest not inventing hobbles for yourself through some kind of weird mental twists about what is and isn't setting.

Best, Ron

I will participate with a highly unrealistic space-adventure setting (influenced by Flash Gordon, Barbarella, pulp novels, victorian science and saturday morning cartoons like Bravestar and Galaxy Rangers) for Capes! .

Andy, writing new Keys and Secrets is absolutely cosher! I mean, hey, what is the Key of the Collector without the Zu setting bit? The Secret of the Moon Heart? So when I say that "tweaking" the rules is in bounds, that includes re-naming Polaris stats, writing up new equipment and weapons for d20, new Keys and Secrets for TSoY (so it's called the Solar System now?)... If, by your judgement, the system is still the system, then it's okay.

- Frank

Andy, I'm also using the Solar System and I'm requiring the players to write their own Keys and Secrets along slightly different guidelines than what Clinton suggests.  I also created new conditions for Transcendence.  But it's still clearly TSOY, still mythopoetic Bodhisattva warriors despite the changes.  Have you read a really good d20 supplement lately?  Be Steve Kenson.  Bend the rules a bit make them accomplish what you need them to do.

Rename the Pools if you want.  Have six Pools instead of three.  Create a weird thing that combines Keys and Secrets where you can use a power as long as you don't Buyoff the conditions for its use.  Ignore Transcendence completely.  As long as you're messing with the components of TSOY, I'd say you're cool.  Again, are you doing this to win or are you doing this to create a badass game based on some fun guidelines?  Are you worried about the letter or the spirit of the limitations?

Jonathan wrote: Again, are you doing this to win or are you doing this to create a badass game based on some fun guidelines?  Are you worried about the letter or the spirit of the limitations?

Andy wrote:
I guess I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be following the spirit of the contest.

If I could manage the time and find the patience for an english translation I would maybe join with an setting for TSOY, too.
The idea is great, but I think I wouldn't have enought time for writing an entire setting, include the rules, translate it and afterwards judge 4 other participants.

But maybe...

"Lords & Ladies" with Dust Devils, provided Matt Snyder has nothing against it.
Gotta to go back to study Jane Austen's fiction.

Bless you, Sam.

Sam! wrote:
"Lords & Ladies" with Dust Devils, provided Matt Snyder has nothing against it.
Gotta to go back to study Jane Austen's fiction.

Great to see Sami here and now. Welcome to the Forge! I'll take the liberty of introducing Sami as I know him better than most here: he's a Finnish rpg hobbyist with plenty of interesting ideas, a good hand for journalistic writing, high zeal for indie gaming and a pleasing manner. If you get an opportunity to play with him, do so. I couldn't imagine a better complement for the European team in this competition, even if his posited setting idea has to be implemented with a crowbar.

My actual purpose for posting is to declare my own setting, which now it seems I might end up writing after all. Atlas is basicly what you get by smashing together Polaris and Atlas Shrugged, and it's looking pretty good right now, no crowbar necessary. I'll give it a 85% probability for getting finished with all the Christmas-related hurries.

Also, the mandatory smack-talk inspired by Frank's name for the contest: looking at the reservations to date it seems that we'll make this a crushing triple or quadruple victory (depending on how many of us actually finish) for the eastern side of Atlantic, proving once and for all where the art of prose writing was first conceived. Current estimations place the American team somewhere between "no chances" and "good try", I hear from the bookers.

Sam! wrote:
"Lords & Ladies" with Dust Devils, provided Matt Snyder has nothing against it.
Gotta to go back to study Jane Austen's fiction.

Time permitting, I will try to put together a setting on the effervescent and bloody effects of gold and cocaine production/distribution in Colombia and beyond. The title will be something like White & Gold. I have Jared Sorerson's permission to reference the Lacuna system for this setting.

Eero wrote:
a good hand for journalistic writing (--) and a pleasing manner.

I going to throw my hat into the ring, as it were with a setting at least partly based on the Crusades against Palestine; I haven't decided how historical or not this is going to be. I plan on using Polaris for the system (unless Ben Lehman has any strenuous objections).

Question about the rules of the challenge here: Are illustrations permitted? If so, are there limitations on number, type? Not that I'd go crazy or anything, but I didn't see a mention of that in the rules.

~Anna

Yes yes yes! Anna, illustrate the shit out of the rest of us! Ben has already given green light for Polaris. And don't you dare not follow up on that announcement!

- Frank

Hmm... it seems I'm at a serious disadvantage, having chosen Polaris before seeing how popular it'd prove. If I didn't believe in setting and system being star-crossed lovers I'd be shopping for a replacement now that Polaris is becoming such a common courtship. Perhaps we should just publish the Polaris settings as a collection and reap in the profits.

Anyway, I'm fully intending to fix me some illustrative graphics for Atlas myself, so feel free to complain about the unfair advantage people with existing production lines have over the hoi polloi. I'm also going to lay it out in the same format Polaris is in, so nyah nyah. If this weren't transatlantic I'd probably print a copy for each judge, just to finally get my taste of sweet victory in one of these challenges. But then, I tend to get a bit competitive, it's half the fun.

Wow.  That's really cool.

If people want to do a Polaris anthology or publish individually, I'm generally cool with all options and happy to do any facilitation / coordination needed.

yrs--
--Ben

I do not know what I am doing here right now, but...

Count me in.

My system will be TRoS, if I get the O.K. from the Driftwoods and I am doing a little tweaking here and there.

The worktitel is "The beast without a time" and basically it is the clash of two cultures, one is near its extinction, both are to the bones exhausted and, because of this near endless war, have established very radical political and cultural systems.

And the players will not have anything to laugh at all.

I hope my time allows me to do it until it is ready.

MfG

Dirk

Dirk: cool!.

I did post this in the Story Games thread, but just to keep all the entries in one place: here's my entry, Darker, a setting for The Shab al-Hiri Roach.

Graham

Sigh. Sorry. Darker.

Graham

This challenge sounds so good that even I found myself thinking of games to adapt. The easiest person I can borrow a game from is Paul so my contribution is a setting for "Nicotine Girls" based on the movie "Fight Club" and is right now titled "First Rule". I admit that I am making this easy for myself, as NG only has about 800 words. Hopefully I can add to the word count a little.

-Danielle

I'd like to try this if it is OK to still go for it? I am assuming that having a low word count is not neccessarly a bad thing? Is there any formatting rules for this?

I'm going to submit "Lands beyond the water...A setting of Knights, Freewill, Magic, Pollution, and Obligation using the Fate 2.0 System. Given recent commiments and getting in late, I will probably only have a 50% chance of completing. But its worth a shot.

The deadline is at the end of the month, Steven, so there's still plenty of time to participate. For length, I suggest that shorter is better. For format, I'd say that your best bet is either straight text or a simple PDF - some of us are probably going to turn in a more or less illustrated, nicely laid out text, but that's just our geekery towards book design showing through. No reason to jump on that bandwagon if you don't feel like it.

Speaking of finishing: apparently I'm going to get my freakin' Atlas finished. Will clock in at 10 000 words, it seems, as less wouldn't give enough backgrounds to be playable. Very annoying to write, as over half of it has to be in this faux-Randian rant mode. Good discipline for writing if nothing else. I'll probably post the thing very, very close to the deadline.

Well my setting, the Land beyond the water looks to be probably going over the 10,000 word limit, so it will probably be not eligible, while most of the "setting" is under 10,000 word, its things like the skill list, sample knight orders and such, sample ideas for adventures,  codifying the magic and pollution fallout into FATE that drives it over the limit. I probably spent too many words talking about things like the importance of salt, and oaths of the table (taken from various cultures) over time. But hey, I dig it, its got a lot of the stuff I have been thinking about like first world countries v. third world countries and how the developed world doesn't realize what has to happen to get their gas. Drew a lot upon a lot of the issues regarding oil and other products that come out of africa,  Religion and the Republic, and the ideas of Occupation, and my own reflections from living in the US, Middle East, Europe, and Japan.

I also tried to leverage off some of the stuff in recent threads that have come up regarding setting and what makes good setting.

Where do we post it by the way, is there a place set up, I know there was talk of ten thousand monkeys and such, is that offical, or just post a link to it (I can host my own on blamdesign) in this thread?

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steven,

I will start a "submission thread" someday soon now. Unfortunately, the guys at 1km1kt seem busy with other stuff and did not answer to my email, so everybody will have to take care of the hosting themselves. I'm sure there will be helpful people around who can host other people in case of need. In the meantime, feel free to link your stuff here for the interested.

As for the 10,000 words, well, maybe you can submit one version where you cut the word count to meet the requirements, and post the full version just in case someone would like to have a look at it?

Frank

I can host on a limited basis, and there's actually no need to keep them available for years, so that should suffice.

Frank,

Thanks, I will try to cut back, but editing isn't my strong suit ;) - I can host a bit as well, probably not oodles of them, but certaintly a few.

Cheers,

Steve

I got back from a business trip last Friday and saw this thread today. I wish I had more time to prepare but hell its worth a shot any way. My entry (if I make the deadline) will be The World, The Flesh, and The Devil unaffiliated with a prior design by Paul Czege. It will be a multidimensional cross between dark fantasy, and end of the world doom and gloom with humanity once again on the brink of extinction. If I do make the deadline I can promise the outcome probably wont be a visual masterpiece.
Regards, Seth

People who need hosting, please contact me by PM - I'll be able to help out.

Regards,
    Harald

As Some might have noticed: I was not able to finish my work on the Setting design challenge.
Sorry. My Job was about to eat me up, wich i could not forsee this way (still new to this company)
(Working in a internetShop that sells PC's is a hard time in Christmas-Month... worked from 8AM till 11PM or longer
But a Job is a Important thing, so i decided to relax in my sparetime... sorry so much...).

Greetings, Sven.

Now that I have actually submitted something, I feel emboldened enough to say that I will be particularly disappointed if none of the TSOY/Solaris-based settings make it.

But the other side of the Atlantic has 8 to  10 hours more time than my locale, and I am still optimistic.

Ah yes, of course. Mikael Honkala, from Espoo. You know, Mike, we're going to take not only a complete European landslide victory, but also a triple-strength Finnish one. The Eurovision Song Contest was nothing to this.

The Engine: very nice, I could play that. Very animey in the limp-wristedly poetic manner favored by Exalted fans.

And yeah, I'd like to see other people's Solar System -based settings. I wouldn't do that after making so much stuff for it during the last year, but I could surely judge them if they came in.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present you Lords & Ladies.

-Sami

Ah hah, that's the last of the Finnish contingent, I think. Posted with fifteen minutes to spare. Now to see if there's any others from later time-zones...

Overall it seems that we have what could be termed a small and intimate competition. All the better for feedback, I'd imagine.

Quite impressive fireworks to celebrate the end of the submission period. Hard to miss the deadline, really.

Yes, Eero, I have been following your career as the MrIndie of Finland with interest. We could start a separate thread on your views of the Finnish RPG market and how susceptible you think it is to the indie ideas. I would think that Finns would be quite resistant to all sorts of ranting and evangelising, which would make "show, don't tell" the way to go.

Getting back to the thread topic: I can easily see the anime vibe from The Engine, now that you mention it. I would like the setting to be open for other interpretations as well, which poses a problem in terms of images I could use. I would not like to lock it down to "gritty realism" or "big-eyed anime" just through the choice of images. One solution could be to include evocative images of the physical locations, without people, in a style that could apply to anime as well as other takes. Unfortunately producing such images is beyond my capabilities, in terms of artistic talent and financials.

There was some discussion about creating a Polaris setting anthology. Any thoughts on making that a reality?

Cheers,
+ Mikael

OK, now I'm wondering if I've really not met Mikael in some juncture. Surely you've bought something from us? Anyway, you're on for that thread. Although I'd be more interested in hearing your opinions about the Finnish indie scene.

But, topic: I just submitted my judgement for the four games I had to judge. I'd also have some words about them and setting design in general, which I'll proceed to unroll at length when we get separate threads for separate games. Overall my position will be that most of us clearly failed in the primary goal of stretching Setting design in the manner suggested by Frank earlier. (In my own case I kinda blame the twist of using an existing system, I take systems too seriously to do serious setting design around something already fixed in stone; but that's sour grapes talking, definitely my own problem if I don't choose a suitably loose system.) On the other hand, we certainly created some nice prose and interesting options for the games, even if they aren't that ambitious in terms of inventive setting design techniques. I'll be formulating more exact opinions for the final voting, but at this point I'll pinpoint The Engine and Lords & Ladies as the only titles that actually present some effort at structuring play via setting design, and even then both have their failings. The rest either let play default to something with only cosmetic differences from the original (a clear problem for anybody who chose an overly formalistic system, like Ben), or fail to provide concrete Setting factuals that would affect the situation beyond Color. One could argue that this is what most setting design in the roleplaying field amounts to, so it is not suprising that that's what we end up with. Arguably we'd need to go through the exercise several times with rigorous judgement to get out of writing prose as replacement for setting design.

Polaris anthology: sure, why not. All it would require would be Ben's permission and somebody to edit it together. The latter being the hitch, as all such competition anthologies have historically failed to materialize due to insufficient editor motivation. I could do it, but as that would also mean including the infamous Werewolf: BUTF***, I think you'd rather want somebody else to have the reins...

Mikael: are you Mikael Honkala, who Eero and I met when I was in Helsinki?

Let's move discussion of Polaris minisupplement publication (anthological or otherwise) into e-mail.  If you are not that person, please send me your e-mail address.  Mine is taogames@gmail.com .  Likewise, I know I have the e-mail for Eero and Anna, but if you guys would rather I used a different address for business let me know.

As far as judging goes, I'm not totally clear on what my responsibilities are.  Should I be judging games related to my own?  Or not?

yrs--
--Ben

Yes, that Mikael, now I remember! Ben obviously has a better head for Fins than I do. I blame the fact that I meet, like, two or three magnitudes more of them than he ever does. Now I'm wondering how Mikael's been doing with Polaris; obviously rather well, considering that he writes a respectable "I'm more Ben than Ben" style.

Wow, I got to judge four settings for games, which I have either played just a few times (Polaris & Under the Bed) or have never seen before (Contenders & The Shab-al-Hiri Roach). Luckily I got at least some drafts from the game design contests, even if there is not enough time to actually playtest this stuff. I really hope that there will be a thread for each setting as the written feedback is probably more useful than cold, unexplained numbers.

I will be starting a thread for each of the Polaris-based games.  I will also be starting other threads for the games I'm judging if such threads don't yet exist.

yrs--
--Ben

Ben wrote:
I will be starting a thread for each of the Polaris-based games.  I will also be starting other threads for the games I'm judging if such threads don't yet exist.

Rich wrote:
I assume such threads should go here in the Endeavour forum?  Or am I being a total chimp?

Eero wrote:

Rich wrote:
I assume such threads should go here in the Endeavour forum?  Or am I being a total chimp?

That would be the case, yes. Not only is it becoming something of a counter-rule for Endeavour to be used as a game design forum, in this case we're actually talking about an Endeavour project itself. I'll be starting some threads about the games I reviewed when I have the time.

As you might have noticed, I didn't find the time to write up my submission. (Quite a shame - I always liked to write something Swashbucklerish for Wushu, and I'd liked to contribute something for a Non-Forge-system, just for mixing up a bit.)
I hope I find at least the time to comment on the other entries...

- Stefan