Topic: Newbie demon ability related questions
Started by: Rampage
Started on: 12/26/2006
Board: Adept Press
On 12/26/2006 at 7:39pm, Rampage wrote:
Newbie demon ability related questions
1a. Warp uses kilograms as units. Is volume omitted on purpose? (gasses don't weight too much)
1b. How far in distance does warp go?
2. How is Hint used? Can they ask about anything the GM knows, such as the meaning of life and all? (Yes, that'd take more than a couple of yes/nos..), or if is a angel watching them. How do you handle loaded questions such as "Am I going to die today?"
3. Similar question to one I found about a car: a flying horse by the means of a possesor would only require travel, as long as the "carrying capacity" of the horse is not exceeded? If the flight speed of the possessor can be up to, say, supersonic speeds, this would actually kill the horse (and travellers), right? What if it actually had Transport too?
4a. Someone having their demon ability of armor + cover constantly on would have a demon with a constant penalty of -2, and have a very high demanding need, right?
4b. Does the same happen with, say, a demon which has perception(acute hearing), cloak, or vitality (given it can slow down aging, it wouldn't make sense to have it off most of the time).
5. If demons have "limited normal" human perception of the world no matter their manifestation or state, why in
this thread does the demon require perception(commands)? Does this mean that a demon should have perception(dangerous situations) so that it may decide to fire up the armor?
Ok! Ok! I'm done now ;)
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 8771
On 12/26/2006 at 10:05pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Dum te dum te dum, ump piddly oompa pa ...
1a. Warp uses kilograms as units. Is volume omitted on purpose? (gasses don't weight too much)
Yup. The demon can change a much bigger volume of gas than solid. Just seems to fit.
1b. How far in distance does warp go?
None. The demon has to be there messing with the stuff.
2. How is Hint used? Can they ask about anything the GM knows, such as the meaning of life and all? (Yes, that'd take more than a couple of yes/nos..), or if is a angel watching them. How do you handle loaded questions such as "Am I going to die today?"
I'm extremely tempted to say "work it out for yourself," because there is a right answer to these questions and I prefer that people get themselves into the playing-Sorcerer mindset. If you're not in that mindset, then no answer will work for you ...
Anyway, I'll help a little, though.
i) The question must pertain to the imagined-space of the game world and stated in character. In other words, it's a question asked by the sorcerer, not by the player.
ii) A question like "am I going to die today" clearly hands the GM a lot of authority over a key part of the game, for the stated period. The player is literally saying, "keep my character alive for me," or "kill my character for me," period. The way I'd handle this is to record the number of dice victories achieved in the roll. Those can now be utilized as bonus or penalty dice to rolls which challenge the answer given.
For example, let's say I answered "no." OK, later in play, the character takes a shotgun blast to the chest and is in the most extreme state of Sorcerer damage, meaning he "needs intensive care" or he dies. Let's also say that in this particular situation, no intensive care is forthcoming (he's in the middle of the desert, alone, whatever). I could see using those dice now much like the Vitality ability, which is quite likely to keep the character alive after all.
3. Similar question to one I found about a car: a flying horse by the means of a possesor would only require travel, as long as the "carrying capacity" of the horse is not exceeded? If the flight speed of the possessor can be up to, say, supersonic speeds, this would actually kill the horse (and travellers), right? What if it actually had Transport too?
OK, wait, this has to be broken down a little.
First, we're talking about a Possessor demon with Travel (flight). It possesses a horse. The horse can already carry a person or two, so that's all you need, for a demon horse who flies through the air and carries you on its back. Good with that?
Second, this supersonic speed question sounds kind of silly to me, but I'll go with it ... OK, positing any sort of Travel which would entail danger to the passenger, like supersonic speeds or vacuum or whatever, then Transport will do the job; "carry passenger" implies "safely."
4a. Someone having their demon ability of armor + cover constantly on would have a demon with a constant penalty of -2, and have a very high demanding need, right?
4b. Does the same happen with, say, a demon which has perception(acute hearing), cloak, or vitality (given it can slow down aging, it wouldn't make sense to have it off most of the time).
Again, you'll probably have to twist your mind around to look at it the same way I'm looking at it, but here goes.
Amor, Cover, Perception, Vitality, whatever ... all of them are "on" in the sense of constantly available, but "off" in the sense that no particular conflict concerns them at the moment. Do not think of any of these things in physical, physics terms. Think of them instead as story-relevant available responses.
So, if your demon confers Vitality onto you, and you get shot with a shotgun, the Vitality applies. Period. The demon didn't have to turn it "on," and the demon didn't have to "pay for it" when you weren't using it. It follows story-logic, not physics-logic.
5. If demons have "limited normal" human perception of the world no matter their manifestation or state, why in
this thread does the demon require perception(commands)?
Because that demon was defined as getting the commands from the sorcerer when it was far away from his presence.Does this mean that a demon should have perception(dangerous situations) so that it may decide to fire up the armor?
No. I think my previous answer makes this question go away.
Best, Ron
On 12/27/2006 at 2:49am, James_Nostack wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Rampage - One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of us play pretty fast & loose with the abilities listed in Sorcerer. The consensus in several other threads on the Adept Press forum seems to be like this--the way the abilities are written up, reflect Ron's thinking of specific instances of the abilities.
Note that there's a spectrum of customization, as presented in the Sorcerer text:
* Little or no customization. Big, for example: user gets big. Works about the same for everybody.
* Customization for special effects. Special Damage, for example: might be lightning vision, or death-farts, or the Poisoned Buddha Palm. Despite these cosmetic changes, the underlying mechanics would be the same; barring unusual situations (flame breath at a gas station) the incidental details don't matter. Vitality's like this too.
* Customization for mechanical effects. Mark, Perception, Taint and Travel abilities can't be played until you say what in the world they do. Some assembly required.
But notice that even the No Customization Needed abilities, can still be customized. Maybe you get the mechanical effects of Big, but your size doesn't change. Maybe one demon's Special Damage simply doesn't affect virgins. Or, maybe one type of sorcery has a very different kind of Mark than another branch's.
It's also possible to tweak certain abilities: you can make Travel to propel you at multiples of lightspeed, or to let Warp affect metric tons of material. Yes, it's against the rules-as-written, but this part of Sorcerer can be customized to taste, a little bit like the descriptors. It's important, though, to understand why you're doing this, and to get buy-in from the group.
On 12/27/2006 at 9:04am, Rampage wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Ron wrote:
ii) A question like "am I going to die today" clearly hands the GM a lot of authority over a key part of the game, for the stated period. The player is literally saying, "keep my character alive for me," or "kill my character for me," period. The way I'd handle this is to record the number of dice victories achieved in the roll. Those can now be utilized as bonus or penalty dice to rolls which challenge the answer given.
I had been giving Hint some thought and now it seems I was running through mental loops (out of philosophical issues). After reading this which I think it's simple and great, I can think of a dozen of other ways to resolve the issue, such as "No. (If things are maintained as there are and you keep standing here for another 12h doing nothing, you won't die). No (The alien you are about to attack will knock you out, paste you to a wall and eat you tomorrow). No (The massive drug trip won't kill you, but will get you in a coma), etc.
Second, this supersonic speed question sounds kind of silly to me, but I'll go with it ... OK, positing any sort of Travel which would entail danger to the passenger, like supersonic speeds or vacuum or whatever, then Transport will do the job; "carry passenger" implies "safely."
So this supersonic flying horse (just an illustrative example:), with no passengers, with Travel but without Transport, would be ripped to shreds if the possessor decides speed up?
On 12/27/2006 at 2:55pm, James_Nostack wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Ron, since Rampage is asking a question about Hint, can I jump on that train too? For some reason, the wording of the ability confuses me a little.
Sorcerer wrote:
The demon rolls Power vs. the Will of the target, and if that is successful the target rolls Humanity vs. the victories.
Who has to win in the first roll to trigger the second one: the demon, or the target? I could see either interpretation, because I'm not sure what that first roll is meant to represent.
On 12/27/2006 at 3:06pm, Rampage wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
James_Nostack wrote:
Ron, since Rampage is asking a question about Hint, can I jump on that train too? For some reason, the wording of the ability confuses me a little.Sorcerer wrote:
The demon rolls Power vs. the Will of the target, and if that is successful the target rolls Humanity vs. the victories.
Who has to win in the first roll to trigger the second one: the demon, or the target? I could see either interpretation, because I'm not sure what that first roll is meant to represent.
I can reply to that! :)
You might want to read this thread, which basically explains it.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 18790
On 12/27/2006 at 3:11pm, James_Nostack wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Ha! Okay, works for me. Thanks!
On 12/28/2006 at 2:48pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Hi there,
Regarding the horse and the supersonic speed, you have introduced some confusion into the discussion, which is now tripping you.
All of my previous points concern the passengers carried by the demon horse, not the horse itself. That should, itself, negate the question. The host body has a demon in it, which is using Travel; Travel implies "safely" for its user and in this case, host.
Now, in the fullness of time, there may come a point when the Power utilized via a host body (either Parasite or Possessor) threatens its health, depending on what's going on. That's already accounted for in the rules, using Boost Stamina as an example. If you wanted to apply it as a consideration during the use of fantastically-swift Travel, and that fits with the look & feel of sorcery in that particular game, that's the way to go.
Best, Ron
On 12/28/2006 at 3:37pm, Rampage wrote:
RE: Re: Newbie demon ability related questions
Ron wrote:
Regarding the horse and the supersonic speed, you have introduced some confusion into the discussion, which is now tripping you.
Oh, it was more of a follow-up question which involved the two issues you exactly answered. I now have a far better idea on how everything fits together in Sorcerer, thank you.