Hi all. New here.

I 'm making this game; its'    working    title is "Transsexuals: The Transition" and it's just what it sounds like. Kinda tongue in cheek, but it is a fully-fledged game, complete with mechanics, settings and what have you.

I 've started an LJ about its design, here:

http://goblinoperaltd.livejournal.com/

If you go to the first post you 'll see I call it an "interactive social comment" . Interactive in that, it's a game, right? But it's about this emotionally charged topic. So if you play the game, or, rather, just read its rules, and have an opinion on the matter of gender and sexuality (and who doesn't?) you 'll go "uh-huh" a few times, then start pointing things out and criticising it and saying "nope, that's not how things are" and whatnot.

And then you can actually play the game and get into the shoes of its characters and see the world through their eyes, compare it with the view of the world through your eyes and in a way, actively discuss the opinions emerging from the design of the game.

To give you an idea, I make use of Character Classes, which are broken up in two categories: Transgendered and Cisgendered.

Those are:

Transgendered Classes (and their abbreviations):
- True Transsexual (TS^TM)
- Secondary Transsexual (TS2)
- She Male (SnM)
- Drag Queen (DQ)
- Transvestite (TV)
- Crossdresser (CD)

Cisgendered Classes (and their abbreviations):
- Heteronormative (GOON)
- Lesbian (LEZ)
- Gay (FAG)
- Bisexual (BS)
- Eunuch (CUT)
- Chaser/ Admirer (EEK)
- Bigot - Quietly Prejudiced (BIG)
- Bigot- Vocal Critic (PIG)

So right there you already have a world view, a classification of people's personnalities. And the rest of the game's mechanics do the same, they detail a certain world view- mine, admittedly, but it's a starting point.

I 'm not sure if I 'm explaining exactly what that game is about, but maybe I don't need to explain too much; maybe it's obvious and trying too hard to explain it just makes it harder to figure out.

In any case, I would enjoy your feedback.

Er. Um. It's reasonable that you might wonder so, yes, I 'm a trannie. Sorry. It happens. Oh. And I don't have anything to do with that spam about she-male hentai a few posts below. Fer chrissake. They 're called Futanari. Spam, but do your homework, puh-lease!

Ye Goblyn Queenne

Hi YeGoblynQueene,

I think this is an awesome idea. I have a couple questions.

Can you explain what the difference between Transgendered and Cisgendered is? How do the classes work? Do they have different abilities? What kind of things do you see a character doing? What do players do? What kind of feedback were you looking  to receive?

Also I'm working on a game that called Silence Keeps Me a Victim that's inspired by my childhood sexual abuse, if you're interested theres a couple threads that will pop up if you search, but not the one I want to point at: What is possible with game design? I imagine your motivations may be similiar to mine, and am interested if I'm correct. I also wonder if I can steal the term, "interactive social comment?" That so boils down what I'm trying to do.

Just two quick additional thoughts:

I'm not comparing being transgendered to be sexually abuse. One is about identity the other about abuse. I'm curious if motivations are similiar, i.e., expressing something forbidden, stabbing cultural values, changing/reclaiming your own life, etc.

Also you might find Annie Rushe's, "House of Horiku" to be useful. It's a really cool roleplaying game about gender identity. In the game you play women who have been expelled from their feudal Japanese village, forcing them to join the House of Horiku. There they learn the ways of Ninjas and choose to develop their feminine or masculine sides, or learn of a more difficult secret path, the true path of the Ninja which requires delicately balancing feminine and masculine sides. It's a great game that can't be over twenty pages, but is so greatly designed that is all you need.

Clyde, hi. Sorry, I took my time to come back to you but I was following your links around the Forge to your game. And then I was trying to find a link to point you to about Cisgendered. Oh boy. If you want an outsider's insight on the world of gender politics, just have a quick look at the Wikipedia talk page for Cisgender... but have an aspirin and a glass of water handy.

No, I didn't think you were comparing being trans to having been abused as a child. They just don't compare. TG people may go through some hard situations in their lives and some become victims because they are TG but child abuse is a completely different thing altogether.

My motivation for the game? Er. Ah. Ho-hum. I 've no idea. I used to discuss all sorts of social stuff with my friends, in role-playing terms, back when we thought AD&D was crap and thank god for Vampire and Wraith... Then I spent a long time writing about transgendered issues on blogs and personnal pages I maintained. Now, TG people have this bad habbit of wanting to put labels on everything, more or less like the music industry does, as if the whole thing was, I don't know, a sort of product that had to be correctly tagged for consumer group targeting purposes. So at some point I joked that, one day, I 'm gonna make an RPG about the whole transition issue, and that I 'd put a Class for each of the TG denominations in it. All the TG character Classes are modelled after the real-world labels the TG community uses to describe its members. Of course they 're my interpretation of them and I added the CG classes- those are not necessarily named as such by TG peeps, but since I was going with classes, I thought, I mise well have enough for everyone. So, I guess my point is to just expound on my theories about gender and sexuality. In a game format. Well, why not?

I 'll publish the game as a PDF for free, at some point, probably around summer this year, once I 'm finished with university exams. If enough people read it, who have nothing to do with gender politics and get an idea of what those are all about, that's a good thing. If enough people read it who have nothing to do with role-playing and realise it's not all about butchering orcs, then that's another good thing. My crystal ball says the role-players will think it's a joke and the TGs will think it's some sort of slanderous joke. But maybe my crystal ball is just being snotty.

Mechanically speaking, no biggy. Everytying revolves around a character's Passing Gauge, which, in short, tells you how well your character can "pass" as a member of the gender they want to be. Some traits tell you how male or female the character is, some tell you how they got to where they are now, in terms of passing, what modifications they 've had to undergo in their physique, mentality and behaviour and some tell you what they think about themselves. Characters with a low Passing gauge have to take continuous "Passing Checks" when they 're presenting themselves as their "destination" gender. If the Passing Check fails, the character is "Read" as a member of their actual gender, and they experience traume which impairs their function, both short- and long- term. Eventually characters may raise their Passing Gauge enough that they don't need to check anymore. Then they might decide that, that's it, they 're complete, they 've reached their goals- or not, and strive for something more besides: love, family, to help others along their way, stuff like that.

Conflict is mostly mental and emotional, I call those "Debate" and "Drama". I want characters to have a motive to participate in both in every turn of their virtual existence. The scenarios I 've thought about usually present characters with the dilemma to wether compromise their personnal principles to grab at a chance to be more Passable, or not. I expect that there will always be some characters on either side of the moral divide, some who would be unscrupulous and ready to do anything they need for that extra body modification, and some who will hold back and think about other people around them and how their actions might affect them. So there will be conflict between those two kinds of character. In real life there's some antagonism between more and less passable transexuals, so I 'd like to generate this too. There is also a great deal of literal debate and drama in conversations between transexuals with different world-views and I 'd likt to integrate those in game play too. However, I 'm not sure that's something I can do purely mechanically- it will have to be left to the description of the setting, the tone of the stories narrated, the scenarios played and the way the players manage their characters too.

Cisgender is a word used by Transgendered people to describe everybody else, really. It's a neologism, it first appeared on the internet and it's used and understood in different ways by different groups. I 'm using it to divide the classes available to PCs from those that are not. So, PCs must be TG, while NPCs can be either TG or CG. As I said, if you want an insight into gender politics and their semantics, read any relevant Wikipedia talk pages, especially the ones under "List of Transgendered- Related Topics, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender-related_topics

The feedback I expect? Well, what you did. I 'm not a regular at the Forge and it's a nice surprise for me to see there's other attempts like mine, to use a game as a vehicle for expression and exploration of real-life issues. I 'd like to know more about what the results those attempts had. I 'd also like to hear any suggestions, for mechanics or setting concepts that anyone thinks I should include in the game. Unfortunately, I represent only the TG point of view... I'd like to hear the CG one. 

I 've been much more of a wargamer and cardgamer the last eight or so years, than a roleplayer, so my mechanics may look too action-oriented for a game that is not about killing stuff and levelling up. So, any mechanics ideas are welcome. As I explain on the game's blog, it's supposed to be an implementation of my gaming system, which is not only for RPGs, but that's not imperative. I mean, I have this system and I 'm making the game, so naturally they 'd come together, but if I can find a system that's more to the point of the game, then yeah, why not?

Oh, btw. No, you can't steal "Interactive Social Comment", hard as you try. Ideas don't belong to anyone but themselves- they 're free to do as they please and grow where they choose. (translation: go ahead)

Hi YeGoblinGueen,

I think I have a much better idea what you are going for design wise. I'm still having a hard time with the actual play portion. I understand that you want there to be drama and debate, and it seems that you also want there to be an overarching goal of reaching a level of satisfaction with self. I'm completely ignorant of Transgendered culture, so I'm not understanding how we would get there if we actually sat down at the table. I understand Iwould be making passing checks, that I don't want to lose, which makes it seems that is a central feature of the game. I find it interesting that passing checks may be very similar to Voice in my game. Can you expand more on what you see characters doing? What might an opening scene look like?

Let me first say that this is going to be a very traditional game in terms of system. I 'm in a phase, in my life, where I absolutely need to make very task resolution style mechanics (if I correctly understand how the term is used in this forum.) So, if you 've played Vampire, think of the Passing Gauge as a kind of Humanity/The Beast thing. Remember Frenzy checks and how you lost Humanity if you failed them? That's what the Passing test is all about really.

There's two other gauges rating the character's appearance and general presentation as Male or Female. They go up and down when the character succeeds to acquire Modifications, all of them strictly detailed by the game rules.

That might sound horrible, but the point is that it is. That's how we see gender, as something quantifiable. Transgendered people are not much different than non-trans in that respect. Of course that's part of the comment, ie, my opinion.

Now, the actual play. No such thing, really, as I don't expect the game to be actually played. But to be a proper "interactive comment" it has to be playable, in theory, even if it never gets played in practice. So, here goes.

Play starts with the Sob Story. That's a three-part narrative of a character's life, prior to that point in it where the game finds them. Here's my notes about it:

The Sob Story (establishing a background for your character):
- Chapter One: Growing Up In the Wrong Body; where the budding transsexual relates the misery of a lost childhood.
> How did it all start for your character? When did they realise that they weren't just like everybody else? Describe and roleplay through, a defining moment to your character's realisation of their condition.
- Chapter Two: The Moment of Truth; where the character makes a life-defining decision: to live in the gender dictated by their biological sex, or attempt the transition into the one they feel they belong to.
> Characters will have a different start in life depending on their choice, to change or not, as reflected in their Moment of Truth. The Moment of Truth happens at an early age, between 13 and 16.
>Characters who decide to Change during their Moment of Truth, have an early start in transitioning, represented by the Early Start Ability, bought at Character Creation; it allows them to begin the game with a higher/better Transition Level. >Otherwise, a character starts at the bottom (unless other Abilities are bought, such as "Sex Hormone Insensitivity" and "Kleinferter Syndrome" and others) and have the Late Onset Ability. 
- Chapter Three: Looking Back Into the Mirror; where the character bitterly regrets their moment of Truth. For every character, the first scene starts with them starting at the mirror and moaning "Why Didn't I Do This Earlier?"[or something?]. Only Characters who chose not to Change in their Moment of Truth go through this.

No offense meant to anyone, that is. I was looking for the edid button, btw?

Hey, I just wanted to jump in with a message of support for what you're doing here.  I think you're right in your assumption that "traditional" game mechanics often don't get people very excited around these parts, but speaking for myself, I'm very interested in the idea of what you're trying to do here.  The metaphor you're exploring, that "class" in the rpg sense (with all the difficulties and artificial restriction that implies) can stand in for "gender identity" as it is often perceived (with corresponding artificial restrictions) is apt.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with this.  I think that given the themes that you're exploring, using a more traditional style of rules is a design choice that makes sense.  You're not using them becasue you think it's the best way to do it, you're using them becasue of the way they put artificial restrictions on the characters.  Working against the rules is part of the play experience.

If I get what you're trying to do here, it's in many ways a vary non-traditional game. 

I have a question.  When I first read your initial post, I didn't get the idea that cisgendered and transgendered classes were essentially npc and pc classes, and I saw interesting opportunities for "cross class" characters.  Someone who is both transgender and gay? Someone who is transgendered and homophobic? Is this something that you want to explore in your game? I can see opportunities for really challenging the class system in the game, and the system of "labels" that your game is about.

Good luck! Please don't interpret slow responses here as lack of interest. 

P.S. The "Edit" function is disabled in these forums, for reasons perhaps best explained by someone else.

YeGoblynQueenne (that's one heck of an alias, isn't there another name we could call you by?),

I don't know how much interest this subject holds for The Forge in general...as Simon points out, posting here is slower than in other places, and I sometimes think this forum gets the shaft anyway. I don't think it's because the subject matter is uninteresting.  I'll admit, though, describing your game as Vampire with trannies isn't going to win many admirers here.  It doesn't grab me, and I have a vested interest in the topic.

The fact that you don't actually expect people to play it is probably a mark against you too.  But I think there is a playable game in there somewhere.

You seem to focus on the whole "passing" issue (and paralleling "passing" to Vampire's Humanity is brilliant in a sad, ironic way that people outside the community might not get*).  But on a couple occasions you allude to this notion of pursuing your gender agenda at the expense of everything around you, and to me that's a little more interesting.  It's very real, that's for sure.  I personally have been struggling with my gender identity for the past two years (which partially explains my semi-sabbatical from The Forge), and I know that with each new step forward, there's risk involved.  When I pierced my ears I had to wonder if this was the day the people at work would finally put it all together (they didn't, but I outed myself to them shortly thereafter anyway).  Every foray I make to a public place I wonder if this is the time some bigot jumps me in the parking lot and beats me to a bloody pulp (it hasn't happened yet, although a bouncer at a local club took exception to me using the women's room recently).  And almost every day I wonder if this is the day my wife will have had enough (today was not that day).

Retroactively, we usually say we never had a choice in those matters.  With transsexuals that may be particularly true.  But at each moment, we had a decision to make...we were risking something to get something.  I don't see why a game couldn't put forward a system of rewards that took both sides of the equation into account and made those moments the significant parts of play.  Certainly, things like relationships and jobs and personal safety would be more relevant to a game like this than Strength or Dexterity. And it seems to me that, rarely and with luck and persistence, a character should be able to have his cake and eat it too (Example: Popular TS writer Jennifer Finney Boylan successfully transitioned with only one significant interpersonal loss - her sister refuses to this day to talk to her - but preserved her marriage, her relationship with her children and mother, and her job and career).  But what I'm evisioning here is a radically different kind of design than what you're thinking about.

* It's my stance that "passing" is more important to the trans-community than it is to the public at large.  I'm 6'6" and not graced with a girlish body; I don't pass, yet I make a habit of visiting all sorts of  mainstream places.  Restaurants, malls, salons, bars, clubs, movie theaters...I consider very few venues off limits.  I'm no mindreader and I'm not saying people who see me don't think negative things, but by far the greatest source of prejudice and negativity I've experienced has been from the community itself.  Passing is the barometer upon which trannies judge other trannies, and although this isn't exclusively so, it's generally held that the more passable you are, the better person you are. 

If I get what you're trying to do here, it's in many ways a vary non-traditional game.

The fact that you don't actually expect people to play it is probably a mark against you too. But I think there is a playable game in there somewhere.

Yes and what you say about passing and how tg people use it as a blunt object against each other is spot on and it's a major source of Conflict in my game.

Which needs an actual name, btw.

I think that whether or not people will play your game is a bit of a non-issue.  The important thing is, as you are currently doing, to design your game as if people will play it.  Beyond that, it's a moot point.

Oddly enough, I think that in some ways your game might be more effective in getting it's point across as a d20 port.  While I understand your desire to use your own system, there are some advantages to using d20.  Firstly, it's more recognizable.  People will pay more attention to it, and the familiar elements of d20 will make what is unique and interesting about your game stand out more.  Second, it gives you a good platform to work with, so you can focus on what you want to do with your game, without worrying about the basic framework.  Last, and I think this is the most important point, d20, I my opinion, highlights the idea you're trying to get across, of being transgendered as a dangerous game, of sterotypes being artificial restrictions on who someone can be.  That said, you'd have to do some major revisions.

The six stats would have to go.  You can replace them with your own stats, what you think is important to TG life.  You might consider what stats affect your "Passing" ability, for example.  You can put some really interesting things here, like "wealth", "social class", "self confidence", whatever you want, but my feeling is the less like normal d20 stats they are, the better.

Skills: This is a very flexible system.  You can write your own skills, and have fun with them.  I suggest writing skills more specifically suited to what you want players to do in your game.  "scathing comeback" would be a good one, or "detect sexuality". Note that "Passing" should NOT be a skill.  It's too important to make optional, like BaB in D&D.

Feats: This would be super fun.  These should be small physical or social quirks that can give a small bonus in some situations.  Perhaps contacts with medical staff, dodgy hormone smugglers or club owners would be good candidates as well.

Class: Here is the "meat" of your game.  The class abilities should be the defining feature of how characters act in your game.  It struck me while making some D&D characters one time that a character could be "crippled" by a poor class selection early in the game.  That one level of sorceror turns an effective fighter into a sub-standard party member.  I think it would be interesting to use class in a similar way in your game.  Certain in game events (such as surgery or taking homones) cause the character to gain levels in the appropriate transgender class.  Perhaps starting a new relationship can casue a character to gain levels too? Perhaps characters can lose levels too? Some levels cause an increase in "Passing" modifier, which is a blessing and a curse. 

Bear in mind this is just me talking off the top of my head.  There are definite advantages to going your own way too, and you should take this as just some ideas to consider.  Also, I'm pretty ignorant of TG issues, so I might be way off base.

Oh my god. You're just trying to get me stoned to death, aren't you?

Look, I really don't wanna go there. It's so easy. All I have to do is change a few stats. I got Feats in my system too and "Abilities" which are just beneficial and detrimental Skills a-la merits & flaws. And yeah, they 're the fun part. Wig/ Make-Up Use, Outfit Choice, Sex Industry Employment, Intersex, Genderblurr ... you name it. I wouldn't even have to do the work with the Class progression system. Some Classes would become Prestige Classes, and that's about it. So I 'd have to change Attributes. So what? Easy Peasy.

The question is, do I want to go down in history as that ...person... who made a transexual d20 supplement? I have other games I want to design. I intend those to be actually played, but you can imagine what their reception would be like, after my first title:  The d20 TG Player's Handbook or whatever.

I 'm sorry, this might sound so lame of me, and like a cop out. But I 'm not an activist or a militant. As you said, people will pay more attention if it's a d20 supplement. That's fine, but it will be the wrong kind of attention. If I release this as my own game, people will go like "duh that's dumb" and go somewhere else to play. If it's d20, they 'll go like "Oh my god, this is horribly perverted and sick, call the police". I mean, you know how people have this tendency to believe they own something because they really like it- a band, an actor, an IP, a game?

I 'm just saying that it would be biting more than I 'm interested in trying to chew, see?

But, man, would that be fun.

Heh, I understand.

I guess it's about time I gave an example of play. Truth is I 'm used to much more tightly structured games and I have no idea how to handle something as open ended as this.

Our play group are, John, who plays the Narrator; Ben, playing Clara, a She-Male; Tim, playing Rob, a transexual preparing to begin his Transition from male to female; and Andrew, who plays Andrew, a Genderpunk lesbian woman.

The group have played a few times already. They have been through their Sob Stories and John has introduced the players to a Story and the characters to each other. Since the players live and meet in Brighton, in the UK, they have decided to set the story there.

The Story is about Evelyn, a young transexual who is having visions of another world, one which looks every bit like the imaginary world she visited when she was a pre-teen. In that world, she was a beautiful princess and had great adventures, involving evil witches, cunning dragons and cute yet heroic boy knights. This world seemed to have faded with puberty, but now it's coming back to haunt Evelyn, with a twist. She's no longer the beautiful princess. She's been cursed by an evil wizzard and transformed to a fat, ugly, hairy ogre. The knights who fought for her now taunt and humiliate her. The evil witches don't deign to imprison or try to poison her. What's worse, Evelyn is expriencing her imaginary world in visionary fits that last for hours at a time and can't snap out of it at will. She's had to leave her job. She won't see a doctor- she's afraid they 'll put he away.

Meanwhile, the player's characters have to deal with their everyday lives. Rob, a bank clerk, is trying to contact a London-based gender clinic to book an appointment with a doctor, for consultation. Clara is trying to find a job as a hairdresser or a beautician, although she doesn't really have any experience; she just wants to stop escort work, which doesn't pay anyway. Andrew is studying interior decoration at the Brighton College; he's breaking up with his girlfriend and is looking for a new place to stay.

The session begins with John narrating how each of the characters has begun their day by reading their email. A mail from Evelyn details her latest visionary trance and asks the characters to meet her at her appartment, in Preston Park. Apparently, she has something really important to say. She'll be there in the afternoon- will they please, please come?

John addresses Tim first:

"You keep calling the Gender Clinic, but nobody seems to be there to take your call. Queen's "I want it all" is playing on your receiver. From time to time, a polite female voice informs you that you should hold the line- you are in a priority queue. This has been going on for half an hour and you 've already been disconnected twice."

Tim pretends to hold the receiver on his ear, while checking his watch. "What the hell are they doing? Are they gonna pick it up today?"

John nods that probably not.

Tim makes a frustrated noise and acts out how he puts his hand on the phone switch.

"Just before the signal is lost, you hear someone pick it up from the other side"

Tim sits up and talks into his hand/receiver. "Hello? Hello! I 'm calling to see Dr. Reid!"

"The line is dead. Too late."

Showing Rob's distress on his face, Tim punches numbers on an imaginary dial "I 'm calling them back, now!" he says.

"You hear the message that you 're on a queue again. And 'I want it all', of course".

"I don't care" Tim says. "I 'll wait. My shift doesn't start until 13:00"

"It's now 10:00." John indicates "You keep trying until it's time to get ready to go to work, but nobody answers"

"Now what's the chance of that?" Tim complains. "I know there's someone there, they picked it up before, they can do it again"

"Try calling them in real life, Tim" he says. "I was calling them last week, to do some research for the game. If it wasn't for that stupid message, I 'd have thought they 've closed down." He shrugs apologetically. Tim harumphs.

"OK, I 'll get ready to go to work" he says. "I might answer Evelyn's mail from there, if I have time".

John nods. He turns to Ben. "It's still 9:00 for you. You 've just read Evelyn's mail. What do you do?"

"I 'll try to find her on MSN to see what's she up to"

"She's Away" John wags a finger "Didn't you have an interview today?"

Ben slaps Clara's forehead "Shit, I forgot. The Star Studded Scissor! It's for 10:00 and it's at the other end of town! I barely have time!" he turns to John "Maybe if I called them and told them I 'll be late?"

John shrugs. He turns to the other two players. "What does the Consensus think?"

"No way" says Tim. "It will make a bad first impression. I mean, you can do it, sure, but it' ll drastically reduce your chances to get the job".

"Oh, come on, it's just a hairdresser's for elder gay men who like to get weird haircuts" Ben complains.

"No, I agree, it doesn't matter. It's still a buiseness; the manager must have seen his share of inresponsible prospective employees too".

Andrew's vote seals the verdict. Clara must make it on time at 10:00, as per her original appointment, or her chances to get the job will suffer.

"All right" says Ben "I 'll get her ready. How long do I need?"

"What are you doing?" asks John.

"The works, mate! I 'm going for an interview, right? I 'll put on the big red wig, the golden dress and the white vinyl knee-boots. And tons of foundation. I got those new false eylashes, they got little sparkly bits on them and..."

Everybody in the table is laughing politely, more or less.

"Ben, scuse me mate, but you 're trying to get her ass off the escort circuit, not find her a job in the bloody circus!"

There's more laughs.

"Oh, shut up" Ben purses his lips. "She's trying to show that she's not a stranger to avant-guarde fashion, that's all."

He smiles sheepishly. "Only, 'm afraid she is, really".

John nods graciously. "All right then. Make your Feats rolls and mark the results" he hands Ben a bit of paper out of a post-it bundle. It's shaped like a strawberry. Ben eyes it suspiciously. "It will take you half an hour to get everything ready."

"Half an hour?" Tim protests. "That's awfully fast, even for a professional, isn't it?"

John waves him away. "You 're just being jealous you can't go out looking that dashing yet, now shut up." Tim guffaws.

John turns to Andrew. "After Evelyn's email, your day has gone from success to success. You 've managed to pour your coffee all over Eva's couch- the white linen one-"

Andrew goes silently "ouch"

"Eva has stomped off and barricaded herself in her room. You can hear her swearing in Spanish, at the top of her voice. You can make out a few words she has taught you: Mother, Milk, Defile and others"

"'Defile'?"

"Well, more like 'fuck'. I was playing the profanity down. It's her tone of voice that tells you she's really pissed off at you."

Andrew scratches his head. "OK, I 'll go and knock on her door".

"You do and you hear a screech like from a rabid banshee. She tells you to fuck off."

"Right, OK, I get the message. Uh. I 'll go for a walk at Churchill Square, wait for her to cool off." says Andrew.

"Yes, you'd better. There's still the matter of the unpaid power bill. You're having a hunch that it's better if you discuss that when she's a bit calmer" says John.

"Shit, I 've messed up, haven't I?"

Ben and Tim nod gravely, in unison. "Yes" says Tim "No way you 're getting back with her. Sorry. You were irresponsible and immature."

"Hey it's his fault" Andrew points a thumb at John "He's the one who insisted I should take an Emotional Strength Check to see if I would fall for that Greek boy."

"Yes, but that's not how your character sees it- or Eva!" says Tim.

Andrew nods. "Fair enough. So I go out. Do I need to make a Passing Test?"

John goes "Yep. It's 9:30. The shops are full of people and so are the streets. What are you wearing btw?"

"Hmm, let's see. From top to bottom, the trademark green-and-fuschia spiky mohawk, piercings and more piercings, a black denim jacket, a torn Burzum T-Shirt patched up with pieces of a Madonna back banner, a pair of stretchy black jeans... er, they 've faded to grey a bit... they 're cut short, just under the knee. You can see my unmatched striped stockings, one black-and-red, the other yellow-and-blue. And my goth spaceman boots. Oh and suspenders. And my lilac tutu."

Ben sniggers "Oh that's so passable. Maybe you should go looking for a job yourself, looking like this."

Andrew winks at him.

"A tutu?" asks John, a bit more seriously. "Are you even trying to pass as a boy?"

"I was hoping the fact that I 'm wearing a tutu would make people think I 'm an effeminate boy trying to pass off as a butch girl." Andrew explains.

The group stares at him.

"Hey, I'm a 'genderpunk', remember?"

John raises an inquisitive eybrow towards Tim and Ben. They shrug and make gestures to show it's OK, let him have it if he insists.

"Allright, you have to make a lot of Passing Tests. Let's start with the crowd on the streets. Give me a roll for the people from your house to Churchill Square."

"Why, what changes after Churchill Square?"

"Nothing, it's arbitrary. There's not enough info on it in the damn rulebook. Now roll!"

Andrew makes his check and fails.

"They know you 're a girl." John declares. "How do you feel about it?"

"Does it really matter?" shrugs Andrew "I 'm a genderpunk!"

John shakes his head "No, you were trying to pass. You even had a cunning plan, Baldric-like. Mark off a point of Anguish."

Andrew grumbles but complies.

"Now give me a Passing Test for Churchill Square. +2 to your Taget Number."

"Huh? Why?"

"There's a primary school visiting the Lego store there." John says. "Some of the kids think you 're Ronald MacDonald. Their teacher is very embarassed and tries to usher them in, but there's too many of them to just herd away quickly enough. One little boy stares at you and goes 'she's aguurll; The other little monsters are gonna take up the chant if you don't pass your Test."

"Failed."

" All the kids start chanting 'she-es -ay - gu-rul'  You get two Anguish."

"Man, that's stupid. I 'm a bloody Genderpunk dammit. I 'm not supposed to care about societal perceptions of gender!"

Hi YeGoblinQueen,

So the part I found most interesting as an idea is the Fairy Tale part. Evelyn as the princess who has been turned into an Ogre speaks so much stronger to me personally. It's a beautiful description that points to the heart of the matter, without requiring me to be very familiar with Transgendered culture. It allows me to explore the idea without having to worry about getting it "right" in my portrayal. Especially if the Ogre's form makes it hard for her to be who she really is....

As the game stands now, I'm unsure if I'd play it. Even if I decided to try playing it I'm unsure I'd be able to sell it to anyone else. I totally would consider buying it for it's social commentary, but that one degree of separation for me, would move the game to playable. The trouble I think I'd have now is my total ignorance of the culture you are writing about. Your game right now seems like the understanding of that culture is very important to playing the game. Also your game as it is now makes me sad, a whole area of suffering I just was unaware of. I think that one step back might allow me to examine the idea in a safer place. The fantasy angle removes part of the requirement of playing something I'm unfamiliar with and makes the game more understandable. This may not be your goal, as it may weaken the commentary portion.

I find it interesting that I'm mirroring some of the comments I received from my initial ideas for my game, and it makes me glad I decided to step back from what I was trying to address some.

The fantasy angle removes part of the requirement of playing something I'm unfamiliar with and makes the game more understandable. This may not be your goal, as it may weaken the commentary portion.

I find it interesting that I'm mirroring some of the comments I received from my initial ideas for my game, and it makes me glad I decided to step back from what I was trying to address some.

Ah oops. Double past there. Sorry about that. There's three paragraphs repeating themselves in the end of the post. Sorry...

Hi YGQ/Clarabelle,

Serious topic you're tackling here. Great goal to get it out there.

You're interested in using d20 classes to show the restrictions on the characters that gender classifications enforce, how do you see that functioning? The games that I thought of in reading your example of play were Sorcerer and My Life with Master. The reaching out of Minions in MLwM, and the hard choices the character makes in Sorcerer and their impacts on their humanity.  Those might be useful mechanics for you to look at.

My thanks to you and HCM for sharing on this thread.

all the best,
Emily

By no means am I prepared to comment as fully as I'd like, but I do have a couple things...

Clyde's reaction mirrors my own...the most interesting aspect, to me, of the sample play is the introduction of the fantasy allegory.  Partly because I just like that stuff, and partly because I think it's less on the nose.  Not surprisingly, my first failed attempt at designing an rpg that addressed my own TG feelings was couched as a super-hero game with an emphasis on secret identities and whatnot.

Emily suggests Sorcerer, and I think that's a good idea.  In private e-mail, I specifically recommended Sex & Sorcery, for its discussion of gender in play.  For a game about gender identity, I think it's a serious oversight to not give any thought to the gender of the participants at the table (which is the primary consideration of my second, somewhat more successful attempt at designing a game to address some of my thoughts...forthcoming here at The Forge perhaps, but not the subject of this thread).  But for sure, Sorcerer might provide inspiration in any number of different ways.

This is dangerous ground you're treading. If you're not very sensitive about how you portray your subject you could end up upsetting a lot of people. The main problem I am having though is envisaging a large number of exciting and engaging adventures wherein a character's gender is vital to the plot. Traditionally the differences between the sexes have always been played down in RPG's, with female characters being (on the whole) capable of taking on any role that the male characters could.

That you're trying something different is definately applaudable, but the concept isn't grabbing me. As a dramatic hook, I'm just not feeling it, and I worry that it might provoke an unhealthy 'Us and Them' mentality between transgenderism and monogenderism instead of promoting understanding and acceptance if not handled with the utmost of care.

Ash

Emily: Well, not d20 classes really, but Classes anyway. I may even rename them as "Castes" or something similar, to show they 're social classes and rigid ones at that. Or maybe not.

I think I 'll have a look at My Life With Master and Sorcerer, Moosie recommends the latter too. Sounds interesting anyway and I owe it to the author. I have unwittingly cannibalised his dice mechanic, I 'm afraid. It's called cryptomnesia I believe. At least I hadn't read PowerSystem yet...

Kinda cryptic all that I know. But not for long. Now that I know that the core of my little mechanic is old news, I 'll post it here and on my Lj for the game, no reason to keep being deliberately (I stress that) paranoid about it. Later today perhaps.

Moosie: The truth is I just couldn't make a game that was entirely about the real world, no matter how I tried...  I thought about making the fantasy portion into an entire game actually, where players visit an imaginary world where they are the opposite gender- kinda like that character from the Books of Magic, who was a man in the real world, a woman in the magic world.

Then there was also that horror idea about characters playing Succubi, my version of them being men who had their manhood sucked away by demons and now have to feed on the manhood of others, to remain alive, thus having become Succubi themselves. If I get a certain artist to make some illustrations for it, I 'm making that no matter what and screw the interactive sociology (just click on Amber Vile's Art or Sickness and Filth on my Lj links and you 'll see what I mean- she's supposed to do this game to, but she'll never get off her arse.)

Sane: The sad truth is that the "Us and Them" mentality is there and it's there on both sides of the so-called gender divide. Or four sides, as it were. You know how kids grow up with this boys against girls thing? Then they learn about sex and it becomes straights vs queers. And then the queers fight back and it all goes to hell.

Well, it's not my fault, really. Or anybody's. It's just the way things are- but I 'm not leaving it out of my game because it is unpleasant. I mean, I 'm trying to speak about the real world, right? And the real world is a real mess, if you want my opinion.

Traditionally the differences between the sexes have always been played down in RPG's, with female characters being (on the whole) capable of taking on any role that the male characters could.

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: Sane: The sad truth is that the "Us and Them" mentality is there and it's there on both sides of the so-called gender divide. Or four sides, as it were. You know how kids grow up with this boys against girls thing? Then they learn about sex and it becomes straights vs queers. And then the queers fight back and it all goes to hell.

And how does it promote sexism or racism to speak about it? Or, of course, any kind of prejudice? I think it does exactly the opposite. It exposes it, it reminds us it is real and gives us that little bit more of a motive to stand up against it.

But of course, the game is not about prejudice. It's about gender identities. Sometimes people get into trouble because of theirs, but that is not the central theme of the game. It's just not one that can be left out.

It 'd be a bit like speaking about space travel and not mentioning that you need to bring your oxygen bottle along, see?

Btw I disagree that RPGs promote gender equality because they allow female characters the same career choices as the males. For one thing, that's absolutely realistic; women can, do and have historically fullfilled all the same roles as men, including those of professional soldier, heavy industry worker, national and/or religious leader and career criminal. So RPGs wouldn't be failing to promote equality if female characters couldn't be warriors (or whatever) like males- they would be actively opposing it. Do you see what I mean?

There are no gender inequalities. We invent them and they hurt us, but that doesn't mean I 'm not going to talk about them because they're artificial. I 'll talk about them exactly because they are artificial- and point out the fact.

Now, who is that going to upset except bigots? And they 're always upset about everything anyway. 

Besides, I think the equal options for RPG characters of either gender has a practical side to it too- restricting character creation by gender, would equally restrict character creation options for players who did not feel comfortable to play cross-gender characters. That would hurt a game. So I wouldn't be too quick to put it all down to the collective open-mindedness of game designers- or even their wish to remain politically correct.

Btw, I hope you didn't mean that this game is "comedic" or that it's about laughing with/at trannies. Please read my first post very carefully if you did. It's not meant as a philosophical treaty- but it's definitely not satirical either.

YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
And how does it promote sexism or racism to speak about it? Or, of course, any kind of prejudice? I think it does exactly the opposite. It exposes it, it reminds us it is real and gives us that little bit more of a motive to stand up against it.

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: Btw I disagree that RPGs promote gender equality because they allow female characters the same career choices as the males. For one thing, that's absolutely realistic; women can, do and have historically fullfilled all the same roles as men, including those of professional soldier, heavy industry worker, national and/or religious leader and career criminal. So RPGs wouldn't be failing to promote equality if female characters couldn't be warriors (or whatever) like males- they would be actively opposing it. Do you see what I mean?

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: There are no gender inequalities. We invent them and they hurt us, but that doesn't mean I 'm not going to talk about them because they're artificial. I 'll talk about them exactly because they are artificial- and point out the fact.

Now, who is that going to upset except bigots? And they 're always upset about everything anyway.

YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
Btw, I hope you didn't mean that this game is "comedic" or that it's about laughing with/at trannies. Please read my first post very carefully if you did. It's not meant as a philosophical treaty- but it's definitely not satirical either.

OK, we 're getting kinda pedantic here. So let's go back to the basics, eh?

You 're afraid the game might upset some. Who exactly? This is not a rhetorical question, I 'm sincerely asking. Please tell me who or what kind of people you think would be offended. Then I will ask you what, but first tell me who.

And thanks for the feedback. :)

YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
OK, we 're getting kinda pedantic here. So let's go back to the basics, eh?

You 're afraid the game might upset some. Who exactly? This is not a rhetorical question, I 'm sincerely asking. Please tell me who or what kind of people you think would be offended. Then I will ask you what, but first tell me who.

And thanks for the feedback. :)

I should explain that the "tongue in cheek" part in that first post referred to the (working) title for the game. Not to the game itself.

I expect some of the people you mention will get offended if they ever get to hear about the game. For one thing, "trangsendered, gay, lesbian and straight" describes quite a broad segment of the population!

But gender is a battlefield these days and it's practically impossible to speak about it without getting a strong negative response from someone. It's Farhenehit 451 out there!

However, as I said before, that is not my fault. I must be able to express myself and I 'm just one person. I won't make any money out of it, neither do I represent any "interests". My purpose is not to offend of course, nor to make fun of anyone. I would hardly be making a whole game just to ridicule of myself, would I?

About avoiding stereoytpes, well, that's the idea of the game. To present gender roles as exaggerated stereotypes. I really can't avoid that then.

Anyway, I don't really think anyone will really ever get upset about my little game. Just how many people are going to read it, do you expect? And no sticker will be needed; like I said, it's going to be a free PDF.

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: I expect some of the people you mention will get offended if they ever get to hear about the game. For one thing, "trangsendered, gay, lesbian and straight" describes quite a broad segment of the population!

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: About avoiding stereoytpes, well, that's the idea of the game. To present gender roles as exaggerated stereotypes. I really can't avoid that then.