Having just got off the phone with one of the main providers to the retail channel, it became apparent that he would want me to brint at least 3,000 copies of my game and bring my per-copy printing cost down to under $1.25 before he'd even consider carrying my product.

Since I'm already committed to printing about 500 copies at about $4.30 apiece, I don't think that's really an option. But I want to be in the game business, make a profit, and keep a contuing line of games on the market. Is that possible without going through the big distributors are retail chains?

We originally did a small run of 300 copies (for a lot more than 4 bucks!) and were able to convince several retailers to carry it anyway (although at a loss to us). We did very well on the internet (sold out in 2 months), but there was also a large buzz around our game.

I think it really depends on what you're trying to do with the game, how far you want it to go, how much time and sweat you're willing to sacrifice for it, and how catchy the product is. Oh, and on the "how far you're willing to go" bit, don't forget that this industry will force you to go about 6 feet farther.

Jake
Driftwood Publishing
www.theriddleofsteel.com

Michael,

I assume you want to do this and still have another job on the side. If so, the answer's yes. Build a website, and sell things. Support your games well. Answer every e-mail you get within 2 days. You'll do fine, and I'm guessing you'll make $200/month. It could be more - it really depends on how well you market.

I'd also recommend seeing if your local game stores will carry it.

Clinton

Build a website, and sell things. Support your games well. Answer every e-mail you get within 2 days. You'll do fine, and I'm guessing you'll make $200/month. It could be more - it really depends on how well you market.

I'd also recommend seeing if your local game stores will carry it.

Michael,

It sounds to me like someone fed you a line of shit. It is neither the distributor's concern nor business to know your print run or your production cost. Unless they're going to order those 3000 copies, why would they care?

I know that none of the distributors that carry Little Fears have ever asked (and all the major distributors worldwide carry it) and Eric Rowe (our wholesaler) doesn't know those numbers so they couldn't have gotten them from him.

Is the retail market necessary? Not if you're going to take a loss.

It sounds to me like someone fed you a line of shit. It is neither the distributor's concern nor business to know your print run or your production cost. Unless they're going to order those 3000 copies, why would they care?

Hi Michael,

Jason is right. There is no reason on this earth to accept, uncritically, to what a distributor tells you that you ought or have to do - and several reasons to be very skeptical, with a whole bushel of salt.

There are a couple of threads concerning MSRP and some issues of conflict within the three-tier system that you should read with care, because it seems to me that you're missing a couple of the key factors in how all of this works (or "works").

Price setting in the gaming world
Channel conflict with distributors-retailers-manufacturers

Now for the following comment:
"I'm the sort of person who would shoot himself on the spot if ordered to do so by a random person on the street."

Bluntly, these comments show up pretty consistently throughout your posts. Even if this comment is made in fun, it's kind of a gruesome, low-self-esteem fun that is incompatible with success at this business (arguably, in any business).

You're presenting yourself in two way, and in practice, you can't have it both ways, Michael - either you're a balls-to-the-wall gonna-publish guy, or you're a near-catatonic give-up guy. You've encountered some adversity already, and apparently you're still going, so I suspect that you are really the former.

Don't mistake this post for therapy. Nothing is wrong with feeling discouraged, and frankly what you feel at any given moment is no concern of mine. What matters is how you act upon the situation. And if you're acting positively (ie continuing with the project), then I don't see why your posts should be punctuated with these loser comments. They can only be sympathy ploys.

You don't need our sympathy (and won't get any from me). You will get support, information, alliance, and connections.

Best,
Ron

P.S. (a bit later) I mis-wrote one paragraph in my first version of this post; changed "latter" to "former" 'cause that was my intent. Thanks, Fang and Ralph, for pointing that out.

And I certainly won't get any from people in the business world.

Anyway, on the distribution channel, I have currently one retailer who has expressed a concrete plan to carry my book. It's a local store, and they;re going to take a consignement and a 25% cut on every copy they sell. It's their normal retail cut anyway, and they;ve basically decided to do me a favor seeing as I have known and purchased from them for so long.

Favors I can get. When my first KODT ad was pushed up from July to June to my utter astonishment, that was a favor I was NOt expecting from a total stranger. I guess he must have had space to fill and felt my ad filled it most aestetically pleasingly. (Never overlook the value of aethetics in advertising).

Meanwhile, things proceed apace. I don;t know if I can completely avoid the retail channel and get any respect, but I know for darn sure that I can't afford it's narrow margins.

Wizard's Attic described the "300 or 3,000" plan for starting a game company, Either print 300 copies and sell at conventions and trade shows, or print 3,000 and try to crack the retail channel. It DOES cost about $10,000 to print 3,000 copies of a 128-page gamebook.

I'm thinking in temrs of how to make my break-even point ($2,500 -- the prommisory note I took out to print the books), which is at about 140 copies retail if I sell them all at MSRP. Hopefully I can make it all in one really good GenCon. But it would have to be a REALLY good GenCon -- I'd have to get HOT in a hurry.

Hello Michael.

There are a few things in your latest post that I would like you to consider carefully.

You wrote,
"I don;t know if I can completely avoid the retail channel and get any respect, but I know for darn sure that I can't afford it's narrow margins."

I'm not sure what the concern with "respect" is - and in fact, I think it's not even worth trying to parse out. What matters is moving product in a sustainable way. If you avoid the retail channel, its members will not "respect" you, in the sense that they won't perceive you in the first place. If you do go that route, then they will "respect" you in the sense that your game sells (and sometimes, even then they need a little reminding), and in the sense that you demonstrate your reliability.

Lose the whole "respect" thing. If you sell the books yourself (etail, whatever), then promote and sell. If you go through retail, play that game fairly. Your continued insistence on making this whole process some kind of "respect game" is hampering you.

"Wizard's Attic described the "300 or 3,000" plan for starting a game company, Either print 300 copies and sell at conventions and trade shows, or print 3,000 and try to crack the retail channel. It DOES cost about $10,000 to print 3,000 copies of a 128-page gamebook. ""

WA is correct, regarding the basic concept expressed. I think the numbers are easily tweaked depending on the size and quality of the book (e.g. 50 or 1500 is a perfectly good model for some non-standard sizes/formats). They are also a bit lavish in their price estimate; my experience and info-gathering suggests lower numbers.

My general point, though, is that you might do well to consider that no one has "the one true set of information" about this process. WA is working with a lot of data, so am I, so are a lot of people. You need to talk to as many as possible, including printers themselves, and develop your own immediate assessment of costs.

Best,
Ron