I just got back from Dreamation, and I had an interesting conversation with Joshua A. C. Newman about the decision to go make an independent booth vs. staying with the Forge.  Josh suggested that Evil Hat would make a good "tentpole" for grouping several publishers together and plant another Forge-diaspora booth, given our strong showing with Don't Rest Your Head and Spirit of the Century this past year.  He also mentioned that he was a little startled that there were as few folks inclined to leave the Forge booth this year.  We went back and forth; I had a few reasons for wanting to "stay"(1) with the Forge booth this year, but I don't know that I articulated it as clearly as I wanted to.  This might be a good basis for a discussion, for confirming or disabusing my notions, so I bring it here, where I hope I can articulate this more clearly than I did at the time.

(Ron or Luke, if this post turns out to be non-topical for the Conventions board, feel free to boot it over to the Evil Hat board!)

Anyway, these are the reasons I haven't been casting about for a spin-off booth for 2007:

Feeling like I don't understand booth dynamics well enough.  I've been to GenCon once, where I sat in at the Lulu booth most of the time, and occasionally dipped my toe into the Forge booth's waters.  I haven't seen it from the "inside", even if I was close at hand, so I don't even feel like we're well-grounded in the dirt basics of making a booth "go".  So this component of wanting to stay with the Forge booth is solidly rooted in "I have not yet learned enough; hell, I haven't even gone to class."

The messy financial stuff. Evil Hat never sells its stuff directly to a customer.  It sells it through IPR or Lulu.  This is in part a peace-of-mind decision from my perspective. I don't need to figure out how much sales tax I should be charging at these things, nor reporting tax stuff in multiple different states, since Evil Hat's not actually doing the selling; it's just royalty checks that come in every three months from those two sources.  Further I don't have to figure out how to support multiple methods of sale -- cash, sure, but credit cards?  Not my idea of what I want to take on.  So honestly having to support my own booth, if I want that booth to be a place where sales happen, means destroying my carefully chosen position of making sure my business is "i send books into black box, black box spits out money every three months" and nothing more complicated than that.

What's wrong with being a "tentpole" or whatever for the Forge booth? Spirit of the Century's done well by IPR this past year, and I suspect it could probably do well by the Forge booth in 2007.  The few times I was able to hover near the sales area of the booth in 2006, I watched the buying patterns, and they seemed to be done in stacks of games rather than single book purchases.  I suspect one or two "must buys" tend to roll into several additional "well, if I'm already buying some stuff, I could also get..." items.  It's the halo effect of being around other indie products -- the same sort of thing that makes IPR a strong center for selling Evil Hat's books online.  And I kinda want Evil Hat's stuff to contribute to that halo effect this year -- especially after having benefitted as a recipient so much in 2006.  I sort of feel like if Evil Hat left now, we wouldn't be "giving back", dig?

No organizational skills.  It's important to know what our weaknesses are, and having the organization enough to run a split-off booth is a skill I really doubt we'll ever have.  In short, we're better as participants in a collective effort than as the leaders of one.  So honestly I'm looking at 2007 as the year in which I can look around to see who's willing to or is already organizing a solid spin-off booth and ask if we can be a part of that. 

Beta testing. The spin-off booths in 2007 are the beta-testing program.  I like to adopt proven products when I have the choice.  And right now, by the guidelines of booth participation, Evil Hat has the options of a) being part of a spin-off, or b) being part of the proven product of the Forge booth.  Risk Management Brain says "B!" after about a half second of hesitation.

...

That said, I think there are some clear points for why I am wishing I felt more confident about taking Evil Hat out of the Forge booth ... I just don't feel like they out-weigh my reasons for staying put.

Getting a leg up on 2008. Building a booth means getting started at building momentum.  If we don't do it in 2007, we don't get that race started until 2008.  Pretty self-evident.

The "no posters" thing. Honestly, I'd been looking into being one of the primary sponsors of the Forge booth this year, but after a bit word came down that Ron didn't want primary sponsors to be folks who hadn't fully participated before (see the above note).  Which leaves Evil Hat explicitly disallowed from hanging up a poster conveying messages such as "here's where you get Evil Hat stuff" or "Hey, you've heard about Spirit of the Century?  Buy it exclusively here!" or (if we happen to get really, really lucky with our scheduling) "Come on by for a look at the Dresden Files RPG".  I'd have plenty of real-estate for such things in a spin-off booth, but my risk factors brain (see above) is insisting I choose the option where I'm not allowed to buy in at a level that lets me wave my flag.

Josh is right. Evil Hat could be a strong axis to build a booth around, at least if Spirit's present performance is any indication.  And there are plenty of folks I'd be happy to bring along for that particular ride -- at the very least, I'd have a ball seeing some sort of Evil Hat / Atomic Sock Monkey Press / Incarnadine Press / etc booth happening(2).  In theory at least, the "halo effect" happens when you group several publishers together, regardless of whether or not they're huddling under the Forge umbrella. 

...

So that's a snapshot of my decision-making process, and why I'm left inclined to be a part of the Forge booth this year.  Yes, there are reasons to split off as well, but they're not necessarily reasons *enough*, not yet.

Anyone care to take a swing at my thoughts?

(1) As it turns out, Evil Hat wasn't officially part of the Forge booth in 2006.  We were there only because IPR was representing us.  So this happens to be our first real year as part of it.

(2) ASMP and Incarnadine are just off-the-cuff examples; I haven't talked with them about anything.

Speaking as someone who's been at the booth several years...all of your bolded points are excellent and spot on considerations.

The one that to me stands out as the overwhelming deciding factor, however, is the first one.

What the Forge booth does so well is generate excitement and synergies through the demos, through the mutualism between the designers, through the repeat customers who you recognize year after year. 

Its one thing to see that from the outside.  Its another thing entirely to be in the middle of the maelstrom.

So my advice...experience it first hand at the Forge Booth...even if only for a year...and then next year reanalyse.

I absolutely agree that there is no better place than the Forge booth to learn what is known about the dynamic art of making the most of convention floor.  It's the greatest teaching laboratory on the subject I could imagine, and I'm right with Fred and Ralph in saying that if you haven't been there you should get the experience.

At least one (counter?) point...

You'll be at the Forge booth one way or the other, becaues you're with IPR. And, you'll likely sell like mad either way. The actual difference is a) no actual poster displays or whatever and b) no actual demos. So, is demo'ing important to your strategy for SotC or not? Just having product present there is a pretty significant sales vehicle.

Yeah, I'll chime in with an opposing viewpoint. I have to disagree with Tony and Valamir. The best way to get experience is to do it yourself, i.e., jump into the deep end of the pool. As a point of reference, I had my own booth two years ago and did the Forge thing last year. You cannot learn even half of the dynamics by being involved in the Forge booth. The IPR guys will be doing their thing and (rightfully) telling you to stay out of the way. The booth monkeys will be roping in demo victims. Etc. Moreover, the Forge booth is pretty atypical as far as booth goes. In short, I do not think that participating in the Forge booth is a particularly good way of learning about booth dynamics and doesn't make a particularly good "class" on how to run a booth. I am not bad-mouthing the Forge booth. It has a lot of great qualities, but I don't think preparing you for running your own booth is one of them.

Also, just an FYI, if you decide to do your own booth, you will be able to get it at a very deep discount under Gen Con's entrepeneurial discount program. I think it's like 30% off.

Depends on what experience you want to get.

Participating in the Forge booth doesn't teach you how to get a booth or navigate the GenCon exhibitor steps...that's just mechanics. 

What the Forge experience teaches is what to do at the booth once you have one.  It drills home in spades demo demo demo demo -- excitement, sales pitches, synergy with other publishers sharing the booth, cross sales.  Until one experiences it first hand one might academically know "yeah, demos sell" but its not the same as having been there.

Its one thing to read a forum post where people are talking about the importance of running 15 minute demos.  Its another thing to actually have a team of designers help hone that demo to a razor edge and spend 4 days running it for dozens of people to really illustrate what a 15 minute demo means and can do for you.  Running high intensity 15 minute show case demos (and CREATING them) takes a really different skill set then running a 4 hour convention slot scenario...or even a 45 minute demo.  I think its best to practice the techniques of demoing, and how to hand off warm leads to your booth partners, and how to effectively participate in other designer's demos, and how to painlessly rope in the curious to take a seat at the table with the low cost option and support network of the Forge Booth than to try and learn on the job in your own booth.

Yeah the Forge booth is atypical...its also the single best model for how to run an RPG booth properly (i.e. to generate sales) at the con.  If you're not running your booth by building on and customizing the Forge Actual Play model...IMO you're just throwing money away.

As far as the Entreprenurial Discount Booths...does anyone know where those are going to be located?  If they're relegated to the deepest, darkest, low traffic areas in the hall you'd be better off paying full price.

Valamir wrote: Yeah the Forge booth is atypical...its also the single best model for how to run an RPG booth properly (i.e. to generate sales) at the con.  If you're not running your booth by building on and customizing the Forge Actual Play model...IMO you're just throwing money away.

Valamir wrote:
As far as the Entreprenurial Discount Booths...does anyone know where those are going to be located?  If they're relegated to the deepest, darkest, low traffic areas in the hall you'd be better off paying full price.

As the aforementioned recommender, here are my thoughts:

Fred's got some major cred. That is a resource to be shared. If people are looking for SotC and find, I dunno, Universalis, then both Fred and Ralph win because they'll buy both.

The Mothership is a great place to learn how to make a frothing, churning monster of demos, sales, and friends. Justin's comment notwithstanding, you get to start stronger if you're starting with knowledge of some things that work. That's pretty axiomatic. Hoping that you'll strike on good ideas yourself before you run out of money isn't that good a gamble, if you ask me.

Our booth will be doing some things differently than the Mothership and that's because we've seen the way things work. They're not being done differently because we think that the Forge model is somehow deficient; it's that we have slightly different goals. But man, have we all learned how to make stuff fly from being there.

When Fred and I started that discussion, I didn't remember that he wasn't a full participant last year; that he was only there because of IPR and friendliness. That's significant. Remembering that floor padding is important is the kind of thing you figure out for yourself.

That said, Fred's an enterprising guy, and if he gets a team whose members provide organization and energy, who can come up with $100 when it's needed, then I have a hard time seeing how things won't work out.

Fred (and Rob),

If you haven't been a part of the Forge Booth, you should absolutely give it a go. It is an awesome experience and a great environment to learn the ropes of REALLY pitching your game at Gencon. There's no better forge than the Forge Booth!

It's community, comraderie and a sales force rolled into one. It's utterly unique and a whole lot of fun. And what's more, you guys have a lot to offer other publishers just getting started. Your products are rad and you've got your shit together. You are needed to help set useful and constructive examples.

-Luke

It's Luke's last sentence that changed my mind. Fred, for what it's worth, I think Luke's right. You'll do a lot of good at the Mothership. Plus, fun!

Also to throw out the dirty money angle, you have a cheap place to sell your games and have two revenue streams when you do strike out to set up your own booth. Add the new games you're likely to have by then and that looks like a lot more steady footing.

This is one of those threads where I find myself nodding and agreeing with nearly everything that's been said.  Suffice it to say that beyond Evil Hat's own interests, we do have a "community interest" in making our products (and selves) deliver maximum value to the group as a whole.  I agree with Luke in particular that we may be able to offer something to the other booth participants this year, and that's definitely a component of the staying-put urge ("why can't we be a tentpole for the forge?").

So: awesome.  Thanks for exploring both sides of this with me; it's one of those decisions that I wanted to feel well-grounded in, and now I do.  (Though if folks have more to add to either side of the discussion, please don't take this as a signal that the thread's wholly done!)

I just want to say that, while I don't really have a strong reason to leave the Forge booth, one of my big reasons to stay is that I want to be there for first-time attendants. It was really helpful to have the "old-timers" on hand for my first time, and while I know I still have a lot to learn, I want to be a resource for the new participants as much as I can. If the booth becomes all Primary Sponsors and first-time publishers, that would be a sad thing, I think.

Well, I don't think that's likely. My expectation was some sort of wildflower sprouting of booths, but it seems like we may have more of a window box with a small variety of beans growing. Come next year, we'll have more beans to plant from this year's crop and may require the annexation of a new windowsill, but The Mothership is still the Burpee of game designers.

(I can't believe I held that metaphor together all the way through that paragraph!)