I have finally decided to begin working on editing my game on wich I work since 15 years. The site is not finished(and it will never be...as all roleplaying games) but I think it will give you an overall view of the game. It is very fantasy-like so don't go there if you expect a realistic game. If you like the Neverending Story or the anime, maybe you'll like it. It's a post-apocalyptic world in a strange frozen universe.

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/p0829664/MonDepotPublic/Kissanil/

If you want more information on the history, the species or the rules, please ask. I'm working on it but I don't really what is the most important area to work on.
Thank you!:)

Hi!
Nice RPG!
But your Site doesn't work so well. Especially the Picture in the Geography Page is missing and I get random 404 messages (Using Firefox Browser).
But the RPG itself looks interesting.

Hmm, I don't know why. I tested it extensively and it worked fine. The map in the Geography take a little time to load but it appear normally once it's done. An error 404 is when the page is unavailable I think so maybe it's only because I'm on an University secure server...

Conteur wrote: If you want more information on the history, the species or the rules, please ask. I'm working on it but I don't really what is the most important area to work on.

My real name, strange question? When I'm roleplaying, I'm the Conteur(it means Storyteller in French). Just a habit of a geek...
As for my questions, It's really about "what should I put first on my site". I could work on appearances, history, species, geography, rules...Where to begin and what is the interrests of the roleplaying community? I also want to know if you think this game would lose you in too much details or if that's ok this way.
I had a habit of losing some players in this complex universe because if I don't say that people must drink, they don't need to drink...(In fact, some people like Marilth drink about 7 liter of water per day and Vinkelak drink about 1 liter, it's not about the mass of the body, it's just about an elemental need).
I also put the map in JPG instead of BMP, that should take less time to load...

Hi Conteur!

It's not a strange question at all, at least not here - you'll find most people on the Forge like to call one another by their real names. But hi anyway, and welcome to the Forge!

As for what to put up first. Me, I like to see history and world background, but you'll probably find folks around here most useful in giving advice about mechanics and rules.

But I think that you should put up (and talk about) whatever interests and excites you the most! Which aspects do you get excited about? Which bits do you love the most?

As for too much detail, I'd always err on the side of giving just enough, but never too much. You want to give players the opportunity to use their imagination and be creative with your world, and if you give them too much you might stifle that and they might treat it as a novel instead of a game. Also, you don't want to make people feel they have to read an encyclopedia to be able to "get" your world.

As you said, you seemed to lose players because the universe was too complex. You might want to dial down the detail so that doesn't happen.

The player who worked to make my Site more beautiful on March 19 put my name on my Site so it's it: Patrick Pelletier.
If you answer to my post and want something, I'll write about it. I prefer the history to rules but on a French Forum, they wanted more rules so I made much work to put it on my Site. History should take less time because it's almost Copy/Paste. The rules needed more tables...
What I really love is the true history of my world but my players look at my Site so I can't put it here and anyway, when I release the book, I don't want players to already know the truth that only the storyteller should know. It's as if in Vampire The Masquerade, they already put all the information on Cain on the Web(but I really think a Storyteller must know everything he want about a game, it's not very good to work so much on an idea about the game that the real creator destroy in the next book release. It's easy to change things in a game but you must know what it was before altering it...)

No more replies. I'm sad :(
I've been working at my game much ever since I posted there.
I have updated everything a made a new PDF format.
I'm currently making a PDF for my D20 version.
I greatly hope some feedback please...

People around here will usually answer specific questions, with a preference for narrow questions about game mechanics. What's giving you the more trouble in designing your game? But if your game is complete already and working as is, maybe you shouldn't post in "first thoughts": you should visit those other sections of the Forge forums, looking for playtesters, posting your actual plays, etc.

No, in fact my game is not finished at all. I need to make sure my Kissan (powers) are unflawed and correct. My spell mechanic is also under work. Most of all, my site is not the best one I could create.
I have many specific questions related to my site:
-is the colors good
-can I use more pictures (is there pictures without copyright)
-is my descriptions clear
-is there too much information, too much pages
-should I finish my D20 version sooner and try to playtest it
-should I clearly define at least one of my city
-does my stories and legends bore you to death

I know one of my problem is to give too much detailed information about small things (like the name of my trees). I sometimes lose people in a mass of strange information and I succeeded in my last playtest to make it good. I must begin like a classic dungeon story then slowly expand to show the real picture that is more like a medieval star wars (without humans...)
Thanks for your help

Hi Patrick !!!

Don't get me wrong here, I'm really trying to help !!! Here we go :

-is the colors good

-can I use more pictures (is there pictures without copyright)

-is my descriptions clear
-is there too much information, too much pages

Ghnd'r: Fighter Dh'Flnds of the ThrynHaathok (Empire of Suffering). He is the right hand of Saadis. He is a psychopath tyrannical tactician.

-should I finish my D20 version sooner and try to playtest it

-should I clearly define at least one of my city

-does my stories and legends bore you to death
I know one of my problem is to give too much detailed information about small things (like the name of my trees). I sometimes lose people in a mass of strange information and I succeeded in my last playtest to make it good. I must begin like a classic dungeon story then slowly expand to show the real picture that is more like a medieval star wars (without humans...)

Thank you very much, I think this is the best answer I had in a long time.
My site was created to provide a window into my world but I did'nt know with what to start. My world was created 15 years ago so it lived and was much defined since that time. So I should start smaller and begin with just a smaller areas and character inside. I will do that.
As for the pictures, some are being made for my world but time and money are'nt falling (I ask everyne for pictures but I know only one drawer who wants money)...
For the map, I saw two freeware for that but they are ugly.
As for the rules, I have my own but some people prefer to play with the D20 system. So I worked on that too...
Now, I will work more on the important information...
Thanks again...

Hey Patrick ... I'll harass you a little. You didn't really answer my questions.

My site was created to provide a window into my world but I didn't know with what to start. My world was created 15 years ago so it lived and was much defined since that time.

As for the pictures, some are being made for my world but time and money aren't falling (I ask everyone for pictures but I know only one drawer who wants money)...

For the map, I saw two freeware for that but they are ugly.

As for the rules, I have my own but some people prefer to play with the D20 system. So I worked on that too...

Now, I will work more on the important information...

And for that, I thank you very much. You're the most useful reply-guy I ever met.
For what is written, I have on my computer more than 1000 pages written on Kissanil. Most cities and important characters are fully written. I could say that even with my 6 Dragonlance books, I don't have all the information that I want. With Kissanil, I have it. The real problem is what must I show in my website.
I'm working on one of the most important city in Kissanil, Meldrant. It is all written down but now I make it readable for my site (without characters stats and all the name in Minshä)
As for my rules, they are already done but I'm also making some adjustement everywhere. I had a new Initiative system worked on my Forum and it's now working pretty cool.
Finally, I want to write one complete roleplaying game book. I want my site to be a window to that book (so I don't want to give everything for free, the site only have the crucial information. The history of the world is many pages long!). I know that the table top RPG is dying but my dream since I'm a kid continue to lives on. I don't want to sell millions of copies or make money...I want my game to reach people who love evasive worlds without all those realities like humans. (even then, my species are more human-ooking than many aliens of Star Wars)

PS: What is a r-map?
Thanks again

Hi Patrick, I'm Christian.

I can't comment much on the content of your site, because my French is really rusty. But I do have a few more questions as well as comments.

Questions first; they are the very basic ones. We call them the Big Three Questions.

1. What is your game about?
Is there a theme to your game?

2. What do the characters do in your game?
Are they all standard adventurers? Are they movers and shakers? Is there a lot of fighting? Do your rules focus on what the characters will do most of the time?

3. What do the players do in your game?
Do you have a GM? Do the players handle resources? How do they handle the setting? What are the meaningful decisions that the players can do, and how are they evaluated?

These are just examples of sub-questions. I would suggest taking some time and really thinking about the three main questions, and even play through a little simulation in your mind. What do you want it to look like when people play your game?

One thing about a setting as big as yours is is that you need to figure out how much of it is needed to play, and how it is introduced into the game. If you want me to play your game, but you require that I memorize all 1000 pages of your setting info first, I'm going to politely decline. If you've got a way for me to take a chunk that I can read through in half an hour and then run my players through for a six-hour session, it looks much differently.

Now, R-Map is short for Relationship Map. Take the most important characters and/or groups of a situation within your game. Write out their names on a sheet of paper and connect them with lines. Write along the lines how they are connected. This is a way of displaying information, but it's also a tool: when your player characters interact with one of the characters on the map, there will be repercussions along the lines.

As to your dream: We're in a golden age of RPG publishing, thanks to the wonders of modern technology. My wife and I wrote a game together. We hired an artist and a layout person. Now we've produced the game and not only are people buying it, they are playing it. Print on Demand and PDF publishing are key here. There are a lot of resources, many on this forum and many all over the internet, that will help you achieve this goal. Many of us have done it, and we're glad to help if you need it. The publishing and connections forums here are excellent for that.

I've written back for 30 minutes and it said that I was late so it discarded everything...):
I must begin again and will make it short now.
My site is in three language (but Deutsch isn't finished, I need help to make it)
The theme is about the ambitions and dilemas of people. Like in Battlestar Galactica. As an example, would you sacrifice and drain the sun's energy to save your lover?
My player's characters are adventurers or political activists. They hate to fight and my rules are enabling you to understand the feeling of another. Like Sense Motive in D20. It's the most useful roll for my intrigue and political games. Some players prefer Dungeon crawling and its also possible.
Generally, I'm the Conteur (Storyteller) but I played it sometimes. My players have the rulebook and we sometimes dicuss rules to change them. They can also choose what they want their characters to do in the future and I make the story fit. They like to seek world-shattering answers about the creation of the world, he creation of the Dh'Flnds or the destruction of the sun...
I'm working about a little chunk to remake my site. I must stop seeing like Cthulhu and more like a Kissanil's citizen...
As for the r-map, it's really simple to create one. It could be interresting but as every r-map, it's difficult to create one with more than 10 characters... I will work on it.
As for my dream, I know that MMO is killing tabletop RPG but I keep dreaming. I don't want a complete PDF though. I really want a book. Anyway, everyone with uTorrent will take it for free but I will have the satisfaction of showing it to my child.
Thanks again, I hope I answered to all your questions. My post was way longer before I got throwed out ):

I've got more to say about your game later, but just for now: once you've got a PDF, thanks to Print on Demand like Lulu.com, you've got a printed book, if you want it. With no up-front print costs; you just upload your file, and every time someone orders the game, they print a book just for them. Your profit margin is less than with traditional printing, but if you mostly care about getting the book out, that shouldn't be an issue.

And I wouldn't be so pessimistic about PDF sales. Our game is available both in print and PDF, and both selling decently. You can see the sales data in this thread. We just signed up on Monday on rpgnow.com, as an added venue, and sold a PDF per day there so far.

Patrick, a couple of advices ... if you allow me.

I believe you need to think of your project in term of product. So, I would recommend you to sit back and think about it.

The theme is about the ambitions and dilemas of people. Like in Battlestar Galactica. As an example, would you sacrifice and drain the sun's energy to save your lover?

My player's characters are adventurers or political activists. They hate to fight and my rules are enabling you to understand the feeling of another. Like Sense Motive in D20. It's the most useful roll for my intrigue and political games. Some players prefer Dungeon crawling and its also possible.

As for my dream, I know that MMO is killing tabletop RPG but I keep dreaming. I don't want a complete PDF though. I really want a book. Anyway, everyone with uTorrent will take it for free but I will have the satisfaction of showing it to my child.

Thanks again, I hope I answered to all your questions.

The Kissan (power) can be used by everyone. So it means that you can use a Kissan named Dominate to force someone to act the way you want. Some Species, like the Lëfan, have it at birth. The dilemas become evident when you are opposed to a friend doing something you consider stupid (like many do when they are in love...). Powerful characters can also try to make someone, like the sun, die. The drawback is horrible...
If the Storyteller don't want to use dilemas inhis style of play, he could try but I really think in a world of so powerful magic, it will happen one day...
My project is about a game anyone can play. My players just made a mess of my world (and continue to do so) and I greatly hope other people to contribute to that dynamic. My world is ever evolving (due in great part to that powerful magic I spoke of...). So no, I wont relate my games if it doesn't affect the world at large but when my game is released, I hope people share their adventures...

What about any kind of plot ? Is there any ? If so, how is it structured ? Why would I use your material over what is already published ? Or even what I can create ?

If the Storyteller don't want to use dilemas inhis style of play, he could try but I really think in a world of so powerful magic, it will happen one day...

My project is about a game anyone can play.

My players just made a mess of my world (and continue to do so) and I greatly hope other people to contribute to that dynamic. My world is ever evolving (due in great part to that powerful magic I spoke of...). So no, I wont relate my games if it doesn't affect the world at large but when my game is released, I hope people share their adventures...

That is the hard part. Why do I play Dragonlance and Planescape, because I like it and I don't have the time to always create new materials for my player.

My D20 system of Kissanil is more powerful than standard D&D. Like all D20 product, I must adapt many things...The characters are much more powerful than standard D&D characters.

I can't provide a good reason to play my game to someone who don't like post-apocalyptic world without common things like humans and cats. I want to offer a product that could spark the imagination of some people. I also hope to have good pictures to show my vision of a different world. Anyone can play to an evolving world. Just look at Vampire. The only constant is that if you want your stories to affect the overall world, I will just have to know of what happened.
Anyway, every Storytellers change some of what they see in a product to adjust to their particular view. I want to give the basis for people who don't have 200 hours of free time to work on the next game.
I doesn't mean my world to be a mess. I mean that my player affected the very landscape of Kissanil, created and destroyed cities. As I said, I took inspiration from Escaflowne and Final Fantasy and every manga around here. I some cities or mountains never blew up, it would not be a manga world.
The tools I will offer will be a Forum (already here), to manage his mess if he want future products to adjust to his point of view. Some things are mostly constant, like the ThrynHaathok Empire, the cities, the maps (they don't blow up more than one time per 2 years, it's a momentous event with much repercussion!)
The general plot is not about to change...The Dh'Flnds just decided recently to be more aggressive and the mortals are better defended every day...
I also hope to create a product like Dragonlance and Planescape but much more defined. Some people just don't have time to create a city and put stats on everyone (I already did that in Kissanil). I also want the Storyteller to know EVERYTHING so that he could change what he don't like instead of staying in the dark like Changeling did...
Thanks again! With these thoughts, I must put myself in your shoes...

Patrick,

You asked earlier for visual suggestions re: your site.  I am a web designer, and I can tell you that your options for the site's appearance are virtually limitless, but simple is less work and easier to maintain/update yourself.  So, some simple suggestions to help your site look better:

White on black hurts to read.  This is a major deterrent to casual readers spending significant time looking at this page.  You can create a page that looks very dark without actually having your text be on a black background -- for example, if you keep the top and sidebar black and have black text on some drab-colored background (e.g. gray tinged with green or brown).

As for the other text colors, I'd make the purple a little whiter (lighter and less saturated), and that green on Current Events should be ditched in favor of something relatively similar to the purple (a redder or bluer purple, maybe).

Organization is vital.  One thing at a time, man.  Think about what people are looking for.  Your Introduction page should start with the actual introduction.  Current Events, as currently constructed, is a minor footnote for people with personal interest in your project, and should be hidden away somewhere unobtrusive.  Your list of inspirations and thanks (which needs its own header) should likewise be marginalized -- a smaller font would be a start. 

Most importantly, though, there should be breaks between any sections that appear on the same page as each other.  Lines and boxes are your friends.

Connect the pictures to the text.  On the Species page, you have 21 Conscious Species listed.  And then you have 4 pictures jammed in with labels that make no obvious connection any of those 21 names.  Put the image next to the text that is relevant to it, and give the picture some room.  It's better to have a big break in the text for a picture than to have the text flush against the edge of a picture. 

Another option for your site, which current looks like very old-school text-based web design, is to forget about pictures entirely.  Some of the mediocre doodles up there right now probably do more harm than good.

Without knowing exactly what level of prettiness you aspire to eventually achieve, these starter comments are the best I can give.  If you just want to convey the information, I think you have a good start and my suggestions (particularly re: visual organization) might help.  If, on the other hand, you want to have a particularly professional look with a distinct identity, I think you'd need a total re-design.

-David

Wow, I really love this Forum. You help me exaclt in the way I asked. I'm not a professional designer so it's very difficult to create a Site without any help. I do love pictures though, and I would never read a text without some pictures. That's also one of my point, I need good illustrator for all my species. Don't worry, I will pay. I just need to have all my Species drawn soon...
I will try to oraganize all this and show a better view but I already determined some things about my game that is not clearly evident and I was about to fall into a Fantasy Heartbreaker.
On the GNS scale, It's a Gamist game with task resolution. Much politics is involved but in a crescendo of difficulty. Characters become physically, socially and mentally stronger.
It may seems like a common game that doesn't create any thing new but I know some parts of it are original. It's also a methodical game, well defined, minutious to the extreme. People without time who want a clear, precise, strange world will probably like it.
(Maybe, my lack of organization show you that i'm not meticulous, but I mean to have all the stats and effect of every little bit of my world)
So, do you think a game so heavy could fascinate someone?

Note : Patrick and I live in the city (Montréal) and are both native french speaker. We met for about two hours to discuss his project.

Well, Patick, I'm going to give you some real work. You've been working on your project for more than 10 years, almost alone, or always surrounded by the same persons. Now, you're getting out of your basement. Your site, because this is what is in question here, must reflect what your product (yes, your product) really is. What it can do, better than others. This is not easy to understand, even more to formulate.

I will try to oraganize all this and show a better view but I already determined some things about my game that is not clearly evident and I was about to fall into a Fantasy Heartbreaker.

On the GNS scale, It's a Gamist game with task resolution. Much politics is involved but in a crescendo of difficulty. Characters become physically, socially and mentally stronger.

It may seems like a common game that doesn't create any thing new but I know some parts of it are original. It's also a methodical game, well defined, minutious to the extreme. People without time who want a clear, precise, strange world will probably like it.

So, do you think a game so heavy could fascinate someone?

I've answered to the Power 19 and it focused my product very much. I've also made a game example of a little part from a game we loved. It will show you exactly what I mean by Manga style, dilemmas, powers usable at will and task resolution mixed with roleplaying (we consider social rolls the most important aspect of our game).

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/p0829664/MonDepotPublic/Kissanil/GameExample.html

About my charts presenting my system, I thought that I could begin with showing the Attributes and the basic rolls and then explain how to create a character. Right now, my site is a mess and I'm working on it (I remade the introduction page's text but the colors will need someone with a greater artistic sense than me!)

About methodical, oops! I want it to be methodical, that is my goal. I just dream of success...
Thank you again Sebastien, you're a great help!