Topic: Second Thoughts
Started by: TwoCrows
Started on: 6/2/2007
Board: First Thoughts
On 6/2/2007 at 6:14pm, TwoCrows wrote:
Second Thoughts
For my second First Thoughts I’ve chosen to take Mike Holme’s advice, reinforced by Ron’s admonitions in More Fantasy Heartbreakers.
“Everyone should write a Heartbreaker.” Everyone seems a broad enough net to include me.
I’m not looking for any real upfront advice, but if anyone wants to toss in a couple of cents I’d surely look them over.
What I’m most interested in some advice regarding free webspace, preferably ad free too, to plop a little log of the progress, and some docs so that people can look in if they’re interested in that project.
Regards, Brad
On 6/2/2007 at 10:50pm, C.W.Richeson wrote:
Re: Second Thoughts
One option is designing in public on a LiveJournal. For an example, check out Chad's work on S7S here: http://chadu.livejournal.com/tag/s7s
On 6/4/2007 at 12:05am, Eero Tuovinen wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
Not that you asked for design advice per se, but I'm curious: what's your relationship to D&D? Seems to me that that's where the Fantasy Heartbreaker is, if it's anywhere at all.
On 6/4/2007 at 5:21am, TwoCrows wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
Eero wrote:
Not that you asked for design advice per se, but I'm curious: what's your relationship to D&D? Seems to me that that's where the Fantasy Heartbreaker is, if it's anywhere at all.
Hi Eero,
I’m really glad someone asked, because I just love an opportunity to talk about myself, and my gaming history. ;P Hope I don’t make you sorry that you asked…
My relationship to DnD is covered pretty well in my only Actual Play post to date here. To summarize, I’ve been a DM of every version of the game published after the White Box, and on average run weekly games since then with many of the same kids that started with me. I’ve even fooled with the White Box & Chainmail too, but only in retro.
For the record, DnD is my game of choice. I literally have reams of material from my campaign setting history, also described in that same post.
The curious thing about my introduction to Indie is that it happened quite by accident. While in the midst of filling out Standard Disclosure Forms for Piazo, so that I could legally submit 5 unsolicited Campaign Cookbook articles, I read the news that WotC had pulled the plug on Dungeon AND Dragon!
For all those many years I dreampt of getting into the gaming industry I was lead to believe that the ONLY publication route to game design looked something like this –
Dungeon > Dragon > Minor contributions to WotC Games > Writer for WotC
I couldn’t have written a more ironic twist of fate myself! Is this what Ron calls a Bang, or what?
As therapy for that coffee-smelling wake up call I made my way through information on OGL, d20, and other options. Eventually I landed here on The Forge, where I feel very comfortable imagining my future in the gaming industry under not only a whole new light, but one for which most of my gaming career I could not have even imagined.
Sincerly, my thanx to every Forgite, especially Ron & Clinton for leaving a trail behind for which others might aspire to tread!
I would agree with you whole heartedly that DnD is the vary gravitas around which the Fantasy Heartbreaker orbits, and I think that the Indie corpus on the topic agrees 110% with that sense. In fact Ron’s articles, and stuff I’ve dredged up from the archives has already been tossed into the blender, and have a serious impact on my design goals.
Thanx to some kindly advice from Clyde I’ll likely have a Site5 website up in a couple of weeks, where folks will be able to ogle my own FH through the whole design process of the exercise, and all my own creative processes in the mix.
Reading the archives on the topic of game design has shown me that I have a comparatively different approach than most, and I look forward to exposing its naked bum for all to see, and comment, or pick pimples upon!
Regards, Brad
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 24055
On 6/4/2007 at 4:27pm, brainwipe wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
Brad, if you need a nice way to track who is visiting your progress, try Google Analytics. Really easy to get running!
http://www.google.com/analytics/
On 6/4/2007 at 7:52pm, TwoCrows wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
Hi Rob,
Thanx for the 411! It illustrates a weak point in my geek arsenal. I’m a jack of trades, definitely more a skill-based character, and a prince of trivia…but I’ve never worn the Web Geek hat!
BBCode has been my most recent challenge…not much of that on the sorts of forums I’ve been used to frequenting, or owning & moderating.
[strokes beard contemplatively while talking to himself] I wonder if a Technical-Related Forum is one that the membership would be interested in, or an idea worth floating by Ron & Clinton…
Regards, Brad
On 6/4/2007 at 9:13pm, Eero Tuovinen wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
The Publishing forum is the one where we do most of our tech talk. Some rare instances concern the design itself, in which case we discuss it here. If you have particular problems with web tech related to your design and publishing, we have plenty of people around who can help with that.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you have a deep relationship with D&D, that always makes for a more solid kind of Fantasy Heartbreaker. Now go make your game; it's no use tarrying too long if you want to create a genuine Heartbreaker. If you're not careful, you might learn too much and it won't be a Hearbreaker after all ;)
On 6/4/2007 at 9:58pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
With your indicated history of D&D play, I'd be surprised if you haven't already written your fantasy heartbreaker.
If you're at all like me you've got binders and binders full of house rules, dragon articles, rewrites, and alternative ways of doing things that if you took them all out, dusted them off, filed off the seriel numbers and compiled them into a "new game" you'd pretty much have your Fantasy Heartbreaker.
Near as I can tell that's how Forge: Out of Chaos got written, anyway...and they actually paid to print the thing.
I mean, when D&D3.0 came out I picked it up, read it, and said "Holy Shit...they stole all of my house rules"...seems I'd written about 80% of 3.0 a good 20 years ago. So that would have been my Fantasy Heartbreaker.
On 6/5/2007 at 12:56am, TwoCrows wrote:
RE: Re: Second Thoughts
wrote:
With your indicated history of D&D play, I'd be surprised if you haven't already written your fantasy heartbreaker.
If you're at all like me you've got binders and binders full of house rules, dragon articles, rewrites, and alternative ways of doing things that if you took them all out, dusted them off, filed off the seriel numbers and compiled them into a "new game" you'd pretty much have your Fantasy Heartbreaker.
I do have in fact have an earthmover sized truckload of stuff already written, illustrated, and in some cases already bound, but how I’m thinking of this that’s not the rules of the exercise. My experience will certainly be drawn upon, but for the record I’m doing it just like Ron suggests in More Fantasy Heartbreakers.
wrote:
Near as I can tell that's how Forge: Out of Chaos got written, anyway...and they actually paid to print the thing.
I was going to say something about reviews from some known names, and that as I see it even bad press is still press…naw.
Some suggest that a cloud of doom hangs over published FHs. That may well be true, especially when considering Ron’s assessment of the inspiration/comparison ratio. I would counter that in the grand scheme of things all games are headed for OOP status, and all businesses based on any game will eventually fail. It’s just the nature of the beast.
Doing what you want, and chuckling under your breath at everyone who ever said, “you should stop playing that stooopid game” when it makes it to print must be a priceless experience, no matter how fleeting.
From what I gather the term Fantasy Heartbreak itself sometimes finds usage as a cudgel in some quarters to put games not to their taste into demonic, and dismisive caricature. To that I say in adult fashion…”oh yeah, well yer favorite game ain’t even good enough to suck!”
On a more serious note I find it at least ironic that some choose to snark at a game that not only started the whole thing, or was at least so close to the source as be the genetic sire of the hordes that followed, but also still commands nearly 60% of the market share.
Somewhere I saw a guy commenting dismissively about how in his teens he had the same reams of house rules, and dreams of publishing them many of us have shared at some point. He went on to snark D&D something aweful, calling everything but a game. In the same breath he went on about his game design aspirations. I thought to myself, what a sad case…he could already have published something worthwhile to a great many gamers, but because of his game dysfunction, and social contract scars he’s given up.
I call that Dreamdeath…and actual death holds not a candle to its torments.
wrote:
I mean, when D&D3.0 came out I picked it up, read it, and said "Holy Shit...they stole all of my house rules"...seems I'd written about 80% of 3.0 a good 20 years ago. So that would have been my Fantasy Heartbreaker.
Tell me about it. I still got a few left though [looks over shoulder nervously, and clutches tightly at a key on a chain around his neck] that they haven’t snatched up yet that I think are keepers.
Regards, Brad