Hi everybody,
my name's Andrea and I am an Italian screenwriter, artist, game designer and illustrator. Those who are curious about my activities can use http://ganeshagames.blogspot.com as a starting point, or google "andrea sfiligoi" and see what comes up (I've been writing various stuff, from mag articles to full RPGs to miniature rules, and contributing illustrations to many small press operations, magazines, etc..)

OK so I have this idea for a small, self-produced RPG, and I wanted to know if similar mechanics or concept has been used before.

The name is OBLIVION. It's a weird fantasy thing.
Players sit down and you inform them they are about to try a new game.
And then play starts.
No character creation, no rules explanation, nothing.

PCs wake up in a strange tower. Their bodies covered by heavy clothes. Their faces hidden by white, featureless masks.
They know nothing. Their mind is blank-- tabula rasa. Not even their names, or what they are supposed to do there. They can know their gender, if they check :-)

Anything they want to know, they must discover by moving out of the tower and into an hostile world.

The game uses a traditional percentile 9-attributes set (think Alexander Scott's Maelstrom) but the players don't know it. The GM has a cheat sheet where she writes down the characters' attributes as they are revealed during play. When a PC makes a roll (say vs Will attribute to resist the sweet smell of a dangerous looking fruit), the player rolls percentile, and the GM tells he must roll low. Say he rolls a 3 and a 8. The player may accept a 38 or a 83, and declare if his action was successful or not.

If it was successful, say, on a 38, the GM writes down that the character has AT LEAST a Will value of 38. Characters are defined by actions and results, not by player design.

Now comes the weird part. The GM takes the "inverted" number, 83, and looks up on this nifty WILL -Memory Table. There is a memory table for every attribute. The action of resisting the fruit put something in motion -- the character has a flashback, a "memory snippet". The memory can also give him some goodies (he remembers that he is a botanicist and so now he has Plant Lore skill). The player can accept or refuse the result.

Basically the pcs are rewarded for acting. They can also be rewarded for failing, as taking the higher number on an attribute roll (say 83 in the example above) would trigger memory 38 (lower memories reveal more about the world's backstory, the characters' poast, and have better goodies associated).

So characters are created during play, the world is revealed during play and ideally the campaign comes to an end when all PCs have enough pieces of the jigsaw.

Why did they lose their memory? Who are they?

And above all, is this a good idea and how do you think I could make it work best?
Thanks
Andrea

PS: I often need English language editing in exchange of art services. Drop me a line at andreasfiligoi AT gmail DOT com

That could be a really nice system.

You probably don't want characters that are too complex in their skill and ability descriptions, because otherwise it would start getting too complicated for the GM to keep track of.

I'll see what ideas I can think of that might help it along.

V

I say develop this further. However, make sure there's a system beyond the tables--tables can be easily exhausted. Also, make sure it's a large enough step away from already existing definition-by-play concepts like that alien abduction one in No Press Anthology (I know the pre-anthology version is still available on the web somewhere, but I can't remember).

Oh I remember, it's called discernment and the pre-anthology version is a 10-page pdf, funnily clocking in at 666kb. It doesn't involve adventure so much as just multiple people probing away at a PC, but it's not a hard premise to flip inside-out.

Thanks. I'll look for it.

The basic idea is that the characters are powerful beings, and were given the Oblivion treatment because killing them would make a mess on the balance of the continuum. At the same time, there are some who were justly punished for heinous crimes-- when one of these backstories comes up, if the player accepts it, it means that he's one of the bad guys. I'm looking to build up a fantasy version of the Prisoner, with a little paranoia thrown in and some plain weirdness.

And yes, the character profile must be kept very simple. I wonder if, once the stats are "known" or partially known, should the GM keeep track of them or leave this burden to the player? Most players hate to write down things during the session, so maybe I could print the Memory Snippets (the official name for the moment) on numbered cards and hand them out during play.

Also-- when a player refuses a certain background-- how can I keep track of it? I mean, what if the background is refused and then it comes up again. Memory snippets should be non contradictory.

I can't comment more without seeing some preliminary docs, but it sounds really interesting!

-Andy

Andrea,

I have a game which doesn't involve explaining the rules or creating characters either. I will tell you in brief what mine is like, and then explain some things I think *might* be universal about no-explanation, no-chargen games.

Cheap is a game about trying to find and kill your narrator. It's about navigating a world of bigotry, abuse and megolomania in hopes that you can get yourself out alive. Maybe you can get others out to. Or maybe by the time you escape the rat race you won't care about others any more. The game is very freeform-ish, and puzzle solving is at its core. I'm not allowed to tell you anything more without you playing it.

Here are some conclusions I've drawn about the 'medium':
1.) The flow of information/explanation is critical and central. Communication habits (good and bad) play a frontlines role in this sort of game. I've intentionally made my game about abusive communication habits, but you could just as easily and effectively make yours about secrecy.

2.) People will be feeding off of your responses and information, or they'll be fucking around with it. They will either go along with or rebel against what you say. They *won't* be introducing their own, totally new elements very often.

3.) Finding out the rules is less important than finding out how to exploit them.

If you're looking for parallels in other mediums to investigate, try finding someone to run: Max and Nora, [The Chairman's Game], or a "word puzzle game" which involves trying to deduce the rules through play. These are more puzzle and less roleplaying, but it's an interesting parallel in my mind.

Don't google the solutions, instead try to find someone to run them for you. The important thing is experiencing the experience of trying to find out the rules through play.

Thinking back on this, it actually reminds me of a convention game I was roped into during the early 1990's.

I was helping the organisers of a role-playing convention, and one of the game designers didn't show up. We just had the entry text, which described the game as very free-flowing, with minimal rules.and the fact that it was about a group of travellers who awaken on a space-ship after an undefined time in cryosleep. They didn't know who they were, they didn't know how long they'd been in stasis. We had been given no character sheets by the game designer, nor a system they had intended to use for the game. But the entry text had enticed around six teams of 5-6 players ready to play it.

We generated it on the night before the convention.

We played with the conventions of cheesy sci-fi for the game (eg. The un-named guy in the red uniform will always die before the end of the show, there will be some kind of menace that can only be overcome by co-operation of two team members who initially hate one another, etc.).

Game mechanics were kept secret from the players but basically worked off the concept that whatever amused the group most and provided the best chance of expanding the storyline. Roll a d20, and modify the result by 5 points either side depending on how good we thought the idea was and how well the character had rolled in similar tasks before.

As the game drew to it's conclusion, we instead rewarded actions that would wind the game toward a dramatic confrontation.

We threw in a couple of standard encounters that would have to be faced along the way, to ensure standardisation and continuity between the groups who played the game (this also allowed us to score teams for convention purposes).

It did well enough to draw extra teams over the course of the convention due to it's unusual premise and radically different play style compared to the other games that were running at the time (it was the early 90's and White Wolf was in the middle of releasing it's early World of Darkness stuff, so everything was angst, catharsis and being "stylishly hip").

So I know from experience that such a game will work. I think that your biggest obstacle will be working out how to draw the suspense into a campaign length adventure of more than a few sessions.

V

There are some things about this idea that i dont like.

number one. The idea of not knowing your charictor the fist time adds alot replay value (what are you going to get next time?). However it seems you expect somone to not know the rules to get the "full experiance". This takes away replay value. These goals seem to be at odds.

Have you played alot of naratavist rpgs? i have not. Im not sure how often a player would willing have an action they take fail.
How often in your experinace do players choose to fail?

Is there any game rule insentive to choose to fail an action?

Heya Andrea,

This sounds like a great game concept. I'm hooked on it. But like Andy, I'd really need to see more in the way of "the actual game" before I could give anymore feedback than "Seems like a solid concept."

As to your specific questions about any game like this being created before:

I know that 1st Edition Immortal: the Invisible War utilized an (unfortunately optional) method of character generation that worked on-the-fly during game play. As I recall, characters began as blank slates mechanically and as situations arose in the game, the players could spend a limited number of points to add ranks to skills or attributes and thereby define their characters via play or via response to play.

It was an interesting kind of tailor-the-game-to-what-play-is-about method, in that it sort-of tailored the characters to what play was about (since the skills you would choose would be the needed skills that came up in play, with some variation on exactly what skill was needed for any situation). I never had a chance to see it in action, but I don't think it ever lived up to its full potential because it was an optional rule rather than a core game concept.

I would think there are a few other games similar in nature (you awaken with amnesia) or mechanics (create in play) to this, but either I just don't recall them or I never played them. Regardless, I would love to see you develop the idea you've detailed above. Keep us updated!

This sounds quite similar to Mike Holmes's Cell Gamma, so perhaps you should check that out for inspiration.

I don't know if it will help, but I would like to share with you my game called THE HIDDEN CITY. The concept of the game was a city trapped in a weird zone of space/time. Filled with various factions, families and societies at eachother's throats. Magic, advanced cybernetics, androids, mysterious grey knights and savage feral cat humans all added to the unreality of the mix.

The player character's awake. They have a set of memories that feel wrong. They are clueless about the city ... none of the memories are about it. They have ID cards, credit chips and a social code. It doesn't mean anything to them.

The players have No character sheets, No stats, No clue about what their characters can do or not do.
They freak out a little. I assure them I have everything planned (a lie ... I was seat of the pants gaming!)

They began to explore, try things out. Had run ins with street gangs and patrols after curfew. They were also contacted by a mysterious female who telephoned them and left cryptic messages. These messages would sometimes lead them to certain parts of the city to discover things (usually if they were feeling frustrated about the game and wanted a clue) or just take them unusual gatherings of characters.

After a couple of weeks the players began meeting outside the session to plan things to try out. They would pass notes between themselves in the session.
To add to their "entertainment" I got a female friend of mine phone and leave messages (in the style of the mysterious woman in the game) at their place of work.

The players began trying very off tangent things. They took their characters into a pub. I mentioned (for background colour only) that an old beat up piano was in the main salon bar area. One of the players decided his character would try and play it. This came out of left field for me, but I decided to go with it. I told him his character picked out a simple tune on the keyboard. He told me his character sits down and tries again. I rolled some dice behind the screen and told him his playing had improved.
"Maybe we create our skills by practice!?" the player declared. I must have grinned slightly (with a thought "What a good idea!") and from that moment on the players were pushing their characters into all sorts of situations.

My rationale behind the game was this. The mysterious female was a character who had decided to test the reality of the world she found herself in. She had tried several different methods and nothing worked. Finally she decided to split her consciousness up into several fragments and implant them into four "bodies" who would be without knowledge of their origin. These parts of herself would test the world and push it. She retained one fragment for herself (to make the phonecalls and occasionally guide the other fragments) until I decided to kill her off in a dramatic "You just find the mysterious woman ... and then she is dead!" episode. Being designed as "Learning Machines" with a fusion of consciousness and magic ... our players performed their roles perfectly. Had a storming time and built up a fantastic collection of skills and abilities.
At the end of the first major section of the game I offered the players the sheets I had been creating for them behind the GM screen and they all refused. From hating it at first they had come to enjoy the mystery.
I am not sure that it worked because of the nature of my players (everyone was quite experienced ... with at least 10 years of gaming behind them!) or because the concept was quite good. I hope it was a combination of the two.

Good luck with your game.

Just as a sidenote .. It is always interesting to note some idea you think is original always seems to have cropped up in lots of other places.
I realised much much later my game was actually inspired by reading NINE PRINCES IN AMBER by Roger Zelazny. I had read it in my teens ... filed it away in some dusty corner of my brain. After the game I discovered it by accident again. Reread it and discovered a main character who wakes up in a hospital bed with no memory. Discovers himself to be a prince in mysterious city that is central to all reality. Tests his new powers (or remembered powers) ... and saves the day. Oh good grief!!! Nothing new under the sun! Just new spins on classic themes.