Some of my players are messing with summoning/imprisoning demons/spirits. I have not read the Revised Book 6 (though I am currently downloading it), so don't bother answering any of my questions that this revision will answer.

I have one PC who WANTS a demon to be summoned, and WANTS it to be imprisoned somewhere. He isn't gifted, but is willing to give up the SA points involved.

I also have a Gifted Man-Elf character who isn't so keen on the whole idea, since he would be the one casting magic. He has a good SP (13), and is most certainly unwilling to give up the SA points.

My first question is, then, can character B sacrifice character A's SA points to the demon? Or is it that summoning a demon simply exhausts the caster, incurring a SA cost?

Also, suppose we have a spirit, trapped inside an amulet (not doing much of anything). Would Summoning be needed to bring the spirit out, or would it be Banishing (to banish the spirit out of the amulet)? Might either one work?

Finally, what would be the effect of putting a spirit into an object, such as a weapon? Would it become animate? What if that person were bloodthirsty? So many possibilities, I want to spark a discussion (I DO have my own thoughts, but so many good ideas always come from these discussions...)

I've always thought that someone could voluntarily offer to ante up the SP for something like this, or even possibly ante up the months, if it were voluntary. However, I do think that this would involve ritual sorcery, even if the spell is only a spell of one.

For the spirit, I think either would work, really. It would depend, I suppose, on how and why it was trapped into the amulet. You might also want to make it so they have to beat the strength of whatever spell has bound the spirit into the amulet.. ie, more successes on the Summon/Banish attempt than the Imprisonment roll.

Unless the object were ensorcelled to be animate, I'd say no, it would not become animate. If it were trapped in a sword for example, perhaps the spirit could communicate with the wielder, but that would be about the extent of what I would allow without further spells cast upon the object. On the other hand, if it were ensorcelled to be animate, I would allow the spirit to control the animation of the item, and if the spirit were bloodthirsty, this could be a frightening thing.

This reminds me of a question I had, so if you don't mind, I'll toss it back at you, and into the forum in general.. Is it possible to cast spells into objects that work only under certain conditions? Say, a sword of flame which only burns when unsheathed, for example. (I know, not a viable spell in TRoS, just an example, s'all)

On the flip-side of that, is it possible to cast spells into objects which will have a certain effect on the wielder/wearer, rather than on the object itself? ie, a Ring of Invisibility, or a Ring of Flight?

And if you deem it possible, how would you go about it?

(I also have my own ideas, but I like discussions on the boards, as they give such wonderful ideas...)

On Summoning:
I would say that the other character could volenteer his SAs by way of meagre participation (by letting of his own blood or simply calling upon the demon while the casting takes place). However, if there is aging involved, that would rest solely on the cacaster as it is his body the magic is being channeled through. On the otherhand, he could cast the summoning spell dorment into his 'friend' so that his friend would be the one casting therefore taking the age and the SA cost. The revised sorcery chapter has a bit of expansion in regards to dorment spell casting which should be useful for this but I think the original text handles it ok.

On the Trapped Spirit(in the amulet)
It wouldn't be summoning as it brings things from the spiritual to the physical where the spirit already is(trapped in the amulet). It would be banishing. Of course, you could just try breaking the thing.

On the placeing of sprits in objects and other magical items
No, just placeing a spirit in an object won't animate it unless it's a greater spirit which has the right kind of magic for such doings or the blade has been previouly animated. However, I see no reason that a spirit placed in an enspelled item could not take control of the enchantments (whatever they be) and use them at its whim. Thus in the case of the burning sword, the spirit could ignite it when drawn and extinguish when sheathed. The blade or spirit would need to be given or have the Vision vagary to know when it's out and when it's in. Also, Conqeur may need to be used on a more ornery spirit. Though, I only see two ways of making a sword "flameing" is to use a little glamour,movement and sculpture(to see the fire, make the heat, keep the blade together) or use a lot of movement (enough to burn the air around the sword and keep the weilder from gettin crispy) and a lot of sculpture (to keep the blade from dripping all over your shoes). But if it's that hot, you might as well put in a stick as every advasary would be well done before they got close enough to strick.
As for making "items of whatever", it'll only take some creative use of imprisonment and the expenditure of some SAs and SPs.

Thanks, guys, and I have seen now the Revised Sorcery Chapter... it is better.

Of course, I still would like to know what you think about imprisoning demons into a person or an object (i.e. would it be useful to anyone? Obviously, it could be quite detrimental, but in what ways?), how one would go about making a talisman (some sort of incredibly difficult ritual, I'd imagine), and about imprisoning Spirits into things.

Thanks again.

Just a thought -- would the person who loses the SA points gain insight points?

On the one hand, he is recklessly wasting them upon a demon, but, on the other hand, this might give him, well, greater insight.

I think I'll have the spirit in an item influence its bearer. This will give all items with spirits a sort of "One Ring"-like quality, except that the One Ring had part of Sauron's Spirit in it (more than a Greater Spirit, I'm guessing), and it had a profound effect on those who found it. All this changes, of course, once the sword/bow/ring/amulet is imbued with magical abilities (Vision and Movement come to mind...)