I am considering writing a game on newsies, my idea is to use an hypothetical city inspired on 1890s  NYC, London and Paris (and maybe Venice). Character should be young people from (10 to 15) maybe living more or less on their own (need not to be orphans).

And, this is the big idea...

The game is about becoming a saint... ehem, while you are surviving the streets and stuff. A tall order, I know.

Any suggestions?

If you need a system to go with your (very interesting) story and setting idea, you can use mine, Orp.  It's intended to be general-purpose and highly adaptable to the needs of setting authors and GMs.  It's pretty rules-light by default.

I'm in the curious position of having a pretty complete game system, but no setting and campaign info, which is necessary for playtesting.  You'd be doing me a favor by being my first source material author.

Even if you don't go with Orp I'm looking forward to hearing more.  Good luck!  : ]

http://zuggers.org/orp.pdf

-Tom

This is a neat project!

What do you think is cool about being a newsie? When you picture people playing the game, what the people doing? What are the characters doing?

Hello, Lighthouse.

What types of things do you see the characters getting involved in that might lead to sainthood?  Will they actually perform miracles as is required for the title in some religions?  If so, how do you see them building up to the performance of miracles - I.E., through mundane acts that lead to miraculous results?

Otherwise, even if you don't intend to use miracles, saints have to do something pretty cool, right?  I admittedly don't know much about saints, in any religion.

-Jason Timmerman

Not a native English speaker wonders what are "newsies" and has a friend named Google. The first hundred hits are all dedicated to a cult Disney musical from the early nineties.

Is that really what you had in mind?

I like your idea a lot.  Can you expand on what you mean when you say the goal is to become a saint?  I'm assuming you mean the struggle to stay good when surrounded by evil and temptation will be central.  How will you have this manifest in play?

Bossy wrote:
Not a native English speaker wonders what are "newsies" and has a friend named Google. The first hundred hits are all dedicated to a cult Disney musical from the early nineties.

Is that really what you had in mind?

tex wrote:

I think this is the inspiration for the film: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsboys_Strike_of_1899

It's probably as good a place to start as any for background reading.

VoidDragon wrote:
Hello, Lighthouse.

What types of things do you see the characters getting involved in that might lead to sainthood?  Will they actually perform miracles as is required for the title in some religions?  If so, how do you see them building up to the performance of miracles - I.E., through mundane acts that lead to miraculous results?

Otherwise, even if you don't intend to use miracles, saints have to do something pretty cool, right?  I admittedly don't know much about saints, in any religion.

-Jason Timmerman

tex wrote:
If you need a system to go with your (very interesting) story and setting idea, you can use mine, Orp.  It's intended to be general-purpose and highly adaptable to the needs of setting authors and GMs.  It's pretty rules-light by default.

I'm in the curious position of having a pretty complete game system, but no setting and campaign info, which is necessary for playtesting.  You'd be doing me a favor by being my first source material author.

Even if you don't go with Orp I'm looking forward to hearing more.  Good luck!  : ]

http://zuggers.org/orp.pdf

-Tom

More ideas and stuff.

While I have never watched Newsies, its background story is one of the sources of inspiration; but also Dickens and Victor Hugo.

Sainthood as powers: No... but.. Sainthood is, I believe, a common vocation for the whole of humankind and it is something you should love for itself.

Can sainthood be secular? No, unless the Game Master wants it so... While the game will center on Christian sainthood as this little catholic of yours understands it, I plan to include some ideas so the concept can be adapted to a more secular game probably building on the ideas of Kant, yet I probably say nothing about non-Christian religions except for leaving it up to the GM, for the simple reason that I am sticking to what I know.

Sainthood would be more like the ultimate objective, so you can have any sort of adventure -within the scope of the game, mind you-. Sainthood would provide a constant motivator for the characters and, as in real life, it would not always be easy to know what to do.

Newsies, a roleplaying game.

Foreword: a different kind of game.

I tend to think that one of the best reasons to write a new roleplaying game is fun or, in more refined terms: ars gratia artis; the art for the art alone. However I have to confess that such a motivation has never led me quite far away for I can always find a good excuse: it has already been done. I could, of course, replied to myself that I could try to write a better fantasy or sci/fi or whatever game, better than any of the existing games; as it is the more common and fruitful trend.
Yet such an approach does not satisfy my poor soul, which needed to express his love for God. Yes, I have said the G word. And so, after some nights of poor sleep, the idea of this game came out and as much as I tried to repress as ridicolous, it kept coming once and again till I have no choice but writing a roleplaying game about holiness.
Yes, I said holiness.
There was also my childhood fondness for Dickens, Verne, Victor Hugo and Tolstoy, my volunteer work in holiday camps for children in care, my paid work as a houseparent, my life as a former seminarian and my brief volunteer experiences with homeless children in Romania.
Last, but not least, prayer. This is a game that has been born between prayers. Does it mean I am claiming divine inspiration? Don't be silly :-) Does it mean is a secret tool to convert you? Neither (though if it works, tell me! :-) )
And out of that earth this game has been born.

Chapter 1. Story creation.

The first step is for the players to meet (either face to face or through other means)    and determine the basics of the story they are going to play and who should be the master. To that means they should answer themselves questions like:
How many game sessions should this game take? You can answer either a number, like 4 game sessions in a month, go for an approximate number (more realistic) or decide to play till you get bored.My advice, however, is that you go for the approximate number.
What is the theme and tone of the game? Humor? Adventure? Horror? Mistery? Epic? Detective? Drama? Fantasy? Realistic? Yes, they are all possible within a Newsies game as long as you adapt the story to the characters. Let's imagine an Epic story with some Horror for a good mix: you could say that some vampire is working for the evil goverment and in the midst of a revolution he terrorizes the rebel at night. So what can a bunch of kids do about it? Nothing ...but maybe going through secret corridors too narrow for an adult to pass to get some antique artifact... or...
A "standard" game, and by standard I mean the one I had in mind when I first created the game mixes Drama with an Epic tone, much alike Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables" or the beloved "Oliver Twist". In no way should this limit your imagination, though.
What is the main challenge of the story? You can be as specific as you like, the more you are the easier for the master to create the story
What do you want (or not) to see in the story? If some of your players are children you must be specially careful. Realistically newsies did harmful things to themselves and others, from some form of petty crime (like cheating with the change) to anything it could be included in a newspaper. Similarly there is no need to include whatever you think it would be boring.

Characters

A typical character in Newsies is a newsie, a boy or less common a girl who buys newspapers by the hundreds and then sell them on the streets for a profit. They could have a family or orphans but, for most of the time they are on their own from a variety of reasons. Family in prison or hospital or into the hiding or...

Your character star:
a) Hidden Prince: Always a favorite. You are the heir of some crown somewhere in the world. (Maybe even in the game world), maybe your character knows it or not.
b)

=========================================================================

OK, I know it is very contradictory and confusing right now, I just wanted to share a bit of what's going on in my mind.

Btw, so that everybody knows where I am coming from

I'm Miguel (Hi world :) ), a former seminarian and former Salesian postullant (that's a year when you are considering joining the Salesian branch of the Catholic priests (if there's another Catholic in the house don't kill me, I'm trying to put it plainly to everybody). I have taught  Religion and Ethics at a Catholic school, worked as a houseparent, been a volunteer a thousand times (it's fun :) ), even in Romania for a short while.

Thanks for the additional information.  Now I'm really interested! 

Tell us more.  Describe your vision of play, perhaps - what will a session look and feel like?  What will happen?  How will the characters interact, grow, and change?

Jason wrote:
Thanks for the additional information.  Now I'm really interested! 

Tell us more.  Describe your vision of play, perhaps - what will a session look and feel like?  What will happen?  How will the characters interact, grow, and change?

lighthouse wrote:
Thanks Tom!

I have just given a look to ORP and it looks like it can serves my purposes well enough.

(do I sound like an evil mastermind? :) )

However I plan to use the game as a minute fundraiser, publishing it with lulu or whatever (I'm pretty new to all this). So if that's OK you have probably saved me quite a load of time and trouble.

OK I have been thinking about a couple of things...

First, I think I have found a way towards 'sainthood' which is both consistent with Catholic teachings but can be adopted even in a secular game. Because while I still want my game :), I want that people can play it in good conscience, so you can play it even if you are an atheist, agnostic, or whatever.

St John Bosco, used to say to the kids and boys he helped (many of them apprentices of various trades) that to be a saint you needed to do nothing extraordinary just to:
a) do your duty to the best of your ability
b) help everybody as much as you can.
c) be happy

of course, there are details :) (For Catholics a duty is to go to Mass :) , etc... yet I think it could be applied to anybody... what do you think?

Second, relations: Still very in the making, but it is a firm belief of mine that you don't become a saint on your own. (If you are a Christian that's obvious as you need God's Grace to begin with)... so I thinking I should work on that line...

Third, the shadow. There are issues we all have to deal with, and that's the shadow, it is something that both helps and hinders, like having a strong personality... it can come handy or lead to violence... So I thinking that each PC should have a shadow and then dealing with that shadow can drive a great deal of the adventures...

Fourth: (A more concrete idea).

I think weapons of any sort should be scary in the game, so at any time (less say a robbers gang) get something larger that a penknife the newsies will have to deal with fear.

lighthouse wrote:
I think weapons of any sort should be scary in the game, so at any time (less say a robbers gang) get something larger that a penknife the newsies will have to deal with fear.

Hi-

I'm back for more:

I really like your game concept and not your decision to not make rules for performing miracles. I'm guessing that miracles will be more of a plot device and less of rules mechanic for players to invoke.

Also, do you intend to rank or score the good things characters do as they ascend to sainthood? Will they get more (good will?) points for making harder decisions that benefit others to their own detriment? Will you require a character to do so much good stuff for a miracle to happen, or do you see the manifestation of a miracle as the beginning of a long hard road for the character to walk (test of faith)? Does doing bad stuff invite bad things to happen to them? Does a character attaining sainthood end the game for that character?

I'm looking forward to hearing more; this is good stuff.

Take care,

Ken

Ken wrote:
Hi-

I'm back for more:

I really like your game concept and not your decision to not make rules for performing miracles. I'm guessing that miracles will be more of a plot device and less of rules mechanic for players to invoke.

Also, do you intend to rank or score the good things characters do as they ascend to sainthood? Will they get more (good will?) points for making harder decisions that benefit others to their own detriment? Will you require a character to do so much good stuff for a miracle to happen, or do you see the manifestation of a miracle as the beginning of a long hard road for the character to walk (test of faith)? Does doing bad stuff invite bad things to happen to them? Does a character attaining sainthood end the game for that character?

I'm looking forward to hearing more; this is good stuff.

Take care,

Ken

Thanks for the help!

Now I understand why many good games have came out for the forge :)

lighthouse wrote:
As for recording sainthood... mechanics are a big problem... It is impossible to measure sainthood and yet we have to? haven't we? Even if we are to reduce it to a stage in morality and leave God out of the question (a secular 'saint') still how can you say "David is 100 points more ethical than Peter"? Yet something must be done...

I have made progress in the game, having written around 12 pages. Everything is pretty sloppy right now but I can announce a couple of things:

a) There would be no skills in this game; instead we play with the basic Orp values and, as the game proceeds, the player can choose what they are good or bad at. If you are "good at" something you get a +1 bonus or a malus if you are "bad at" something else. For every two things you are "good at" you must choose one in which you are "bad at". Plus you can only improve something you are good once per act.

b) The game is divided into acts, each being roughly equal to one game session.

c) The player group should decide how "bleak" their world is by choosing things like their starting equipment, the attitude of police officers, etc...

d) The nation is to be a fantasy country somewhere in North America, ruled by a benign and progressive (except if the players choose otherwise see c) above) monarchy.

e) As the game progresses I am giving it an increansingly Catholic tone; I feel I can't do otherwise, because it is the only theology and spirituality in which I know something about... So I plan to include a "secular version" as an appendix. I think I can do that alright, as I have taught ethics at high school (even though some elements would be missing in a "secular saint" of course.

However what about other denominations? Can anybody help me out here?

If you want to check the unfinished and very sloppy draft send me a message

It almost hurts me to ask this but...

may I assume that there is no interest in the game after three days of no replies? I mean writing a game is tough work and if there is few interest in it, I'd rather do something else, maybe a novel for nanowrimo or something :)

Hi-

Don't let waning responses upset your desire to write this game. These threads will only go so far with you while working on your project. You've gotten a good amount of feedback, but people are problem running out of useful things to add. In my case, I no longer feel that I have anything else to contribute with this topic right now. As you run into more specific challenges, initiate new threads to deal with them. Eventually, you'll get to a point where you'll want to playtest and maybe even publish.

Keep it up, and take care,

Ken

I'm going to write this as a novel, not a rpg, and this is why

From an Article About Luciano Pavarotti


The great Italian opera tenor, Luciano Pavarotti, who died one week ago, on September 6th, said that when he was a boy, his father, a baker, introduced him to the wonders of song, and urged him to work hard to develop his voice. Pavarotti took his father's advice, but he also enrolled in a teacher's college. Upon graduation he asked his father, "Shall I be a teacher or a singer?"

"Luciano," his father replied, "if you try to sit on two chairs, you will fall between them. For life, you must choose one chair."

Pavarotti said, "I chose one. It took seven years of study and frustration before I made my first professional appearance. It took another seven to reach the Metropolitan Opera. And now I think whether it's laying bricks, writing a book--whatever we choose--we should give ourselves to it."

Source: http://rorysrambles.blogspot.com

So this is a goodbye :)