Topic: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Started by: Yokiboy
Started on: 9/20/2007
Board: Publishing
On 9/20/2007 at 9:45am, Yokiboy wrote:
How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Hello,
In the [Shock:] The Collections Agent, the President of Earth and the Revolutionary Judd makes a comment about how he learns to play new roleplaying games.
Paka wrote: The way I tend to learn games is to play them the first time as best I can, go back and re-read 'em (often with another player or players having read them too) and then play again with the full rules behind us. That second re-reading, having played the game once and felt something missing tends to be really helpful and is the reading where everything really sticks.
This forced me to post something that's been percolating in my mind for a while now. I wish more roleplaying games followed the example of good boardgame rules in allowing you to start playing while working through the rules. I think Dogs in the Vineyard comes closest to following the boardgame rules model, but they still don't have a step-by-step approach that lets you play as you read the rules.
Have a look at Gun$ & Ca$h for instance. It includes quick start rules that has you playing straight out of the box (please disregard the fact that they're horribly translated into English, as that's not the point of my example.)
I also wish more game designers took advantage of the digital medium. How come no one has included a video, or even audio, of gameplay in their PDF products? Or at the very least post a video of a game demo on the product's Web site.
Just look at how podcasts are impacting game hype at this point, why not provide that hype as a designer from the start. Record some of your final play test sessions and make them available from launch.
I think this is part of what's holding roleplaying games back from the masses. People don't want to read a book, attempt playing the game, having to read the book again, and then play again correcting your mistakes. Boardgames are much more accessible IMO (with some glaring exceptions of course), plus the good ones usually include ALL the play aids and references required to play the game, while roleplaying game designers seem less keen on including all-inclusive reference sheets. Perhaps afraid it will impact game sales, given that there's no other game components - such as boards, tokens, dice, etc.
What are your thoughts on this matter? Can roleplaying designers learn something from the boardgame publishers, and could they better utilize multimedia to introduce new players to the hobby?
TTFN,
Yoki
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Topic 24820
On 9/20/2007 at 12:18pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Hi Yoki,
Agreed on all counts! The real solution, however, is to forge ahead into the unknown territory. I think RPG texts have improved by a thousand percent in the last four years, but it's only a start. We are collectively in a state of immediate experimentation.
I've already been using on-line video to teach the rules for Spione. I don't think I've implemented it very well yet, as the only films available are from an early version of the rules, but I'd like to improve it.
Best, Ron
On 9/20/2007 at 2:15pm, GreatWolf wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Or at the very least post a video of a game demo on the product's Web site.
It's on my agenda. My plan has been to record a full game of Dirty Secrets so that folks can see how it's done. Recording a demo is a good idea, too, which I hadn't actually considered. (Silly me.)
To answer your question, though, the reason that no one does it is time constraints, particularly for indie games. You're so busy trying to get your game to press that you don't even think about additional features like video support. That's not really an excuse, but there it is.
I don't think that you'd want to record a late-stage playtest, though. You really want to make sure that your rules are stable before you start filming. Otherwise you're in the awkward position of having a demo that's actually wrong.
On 9/20/2007 at 3:43pm, lighthouse wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Thanks, good ideas! :)
On 9/20/2007 at 4:16pm, chris_moore wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
I wrote Psi Run with that exact "play as you read" intention. I think I achieved that goal (maybe others who have read it could concur or refute that). It's how I've always wanted RPGs to be written.
On 9/20/2007 at 4:19pm, baragh wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
How about including a demo tutorial module within the rules set? It wouldn't have to be very long, but I guess that depends on how long the rules book is in the first place. I think the shortest adventure module I've ever played was about 10 pages long.
But instead of just a regular adventure that your normally experienced GM would be able to use in a campaign, let it stand alone with all sorts of interfering guides on character creation, where to direct the action so the players can see skill checks, combat, etc, or whatever pertains to your game rules.
On 9/21/2007 at 3:51pm, Paka wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
baragh wrote:
How about including a demo tutorial module within the rules set? It wouldn't have to be very long, but I guess that depends on how long the rules book is in the first place. I think the shortest adventure module I've ever played was about 10 pages long.
I am working on something very much like this, inspired by playing Memoir '44 and Battlelore for 1st Quest.
On 9/21/2007 at 8:20pm, killacozzy wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
Hey, I haven't posted on here for about 2 years, figured I'd drop an idea.
for some games, i could see a demo working as not only an example of play, but almost an advertisement. in other words, here's how you play, this is how cool playing is.
it'd be theatrical; sure, a group of friends sitting around playing the game demonstrates play, but when they're getting into character, maybe throw in a cut scene....of the barbarian warrior monk marching across the wasteland saying grizzled phrases and acting all tough and whatnot....of the alien menace threatening the heroic astronautical space gangster....of the weird primordial swamps filled with dinosaurs for the time-traveling rogue bandit genius....
and mood music!
okay, so maybe there's no budget for cut scenes of any realism. so intersperse some art.... sketches.... posed photos.... if you're doing an instructional video, use it to get people excited about the game. show them not only how to play, but why to play.... then that way, perhaps the "demo" can be viewed by the wouldbe customer to see how kick-ass the game is.
comes in handy when you know indie filmmakers....
perhaps this is the start of another thread, but hey, thought i'd throw it out there.
-anthony-
On 9/22/2007 at 1:17am, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
I'm with you, Anthony! That's exactly what I'm working on these days.
Best, Ron
On 9/22/2007 at 11:17am, Yokiboy wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
anthony wrote: perhaps this is the start of another thread, but hey, thought i'd throw it out there.
No that's perfect for this thread Anthony. I completely agree. I'm surprised we haven't seen something like this from the larger RPG publishers already. However, with how cheap and easy multimedia design is nowadays anyone can do what you suggest.
On 9/22/2007 at 6:28pm, lighthouse wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
The problem would be the actors. I mean most of us could write a reasonably well script, and buy or somehow get a videocamera, and yes you have youtube et. al. to distribute it... but who is going to act before the camera.
I remember back at the seminary we had to do some video 'witnessing' about our vocations. It was nothing but a simple declaration of why we were there; something you get used to when you are a seminarian but it almost took us half a day to finish it.
On 9/23/2007 at 1:28am, Vulpinoid wrote:
RE: Re: How to Present Rules in a More Intuitive Manner
anthony wrote:
...okay, so maybe there's no budget for cut scenes of any realism. so intersperse some art.... sketches.... posed photos.... if you're doing an instructional video, use it to get people excited about the game. show them not only how to play, but why to play.... then that way, perhaps the "demo" can be viewed by the wouldbe customer to see how kick-ass the game is.
comes in handy when you know indie filmmakers....
I'd never thought of using my friends among the indie flm and music scenes in that manner.
Especially if a few members of the role-playing group are "live-action roleplayers", this could be a great means of advertising.
Damn..too many great ideas...too little time.
V