The Forge Reference Project

 

Topic: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types
Started by: MKAdams
Started on: 1/21/2008
Board: First Thoughts


On 1/21/2008 at 9:23pm, MKAdams wrote:
[Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

This is the first third of the character creation section for the game I'm working on, tentatively titled "Wonderland."  Characters are created by combing a Type with a Style.  The types are Adventurous, Clever and Idealistic, and define how the hero in question approaches challenges.  Type determines the character's attributes, and grants special abilities unique to each type that affect their interaction with allies.  The type is modified by a Style, with Styles being closer to what you'd recognize as "classes."  Some of the Styles still on the drawing table are "Flashing Blade," "Princess," "Wizard," "Knight," etc.  The final section of character creation will deal with fine tuning and customizing characters.  So a completed character might be described as a "Adventurous Flashing Blade," "Clever  Wizard," or "Idealistic Princess." 

The game uses special six-sided dice marked with stars, hearts and triangles, two facings of each.  there are three types of conflict (social, mental and physical) refered to as test or trials of the heart, mind or body.  Test are simple rolls against a set difficulty, trials are extended tests.

I'm just looking for feedback on comprehendability (is that even a word?) and "fun."  Does reading this make you excited to learn more about the game?  Oh, and a final note:  this game is being written for a female teen demographic, sort of a "D&D for girls."  Hence the exclusive use of "heroine" over "hero," and the feminine pronoun.  And the pink.

[hr]
HEROIC TYPES
Character creation begins with deciding what type of hero your character is.  Determining this is as simple as answering this question:

You are on a path through a forest, and you must reach the village at the end of the road to deliver medicine.  Desperate people are counting on you. A swiftly moving creek crosses the path, and the slick, wet stones are too dangerous to walk on.  A bridge crosses the creek, but a bandit won't allow you to cross unless you give him everything you've got.  What does your character do?

A) She challenges the bandit to fight for right of way.
B) She tricks the bandit into letting her pass with clever words or a spell.
C) She convinces the bandit to help her deliver the medicine by appealing to his heart.
D) She gives the bandit all of her belongings.


If you chose A, your character is an action oriented Adventurous Heroine who faces challenges head-on in a direct, forceful manner.  If you answered B, your character is a Clever Heroine who applies her mind in innovative ways to overcome challenges.  If you answered C, your character is an Idealistic Heroine who believes that her cause is righteous enough to inspire even the hardest hearts, and is rewarded for her faith by the allies she inspires.  If you answered D, then your character is not a hero at all.  The village was counting on you, and you let them down!

Understanding Types
Heroines begin the game at level 0, with 6 attribute dice divided between the three attributes, 3 tokens, and one special ability.  Each Type of Heroine has one Good attribute, one Average attribute, and one Poor attribute. 

New Terms
Level is an abstract number that represents how experienced the heroine is, and how well developed her abilities are.  See the section Building A Legend for information on how to increase your level.

Attribute dice were introduced in the Introduction To Play.  Good attributes increase rapidly, Poor attributes increase slowly,  and Average attributes increase at a rate somewhere in between Good and Poor.

Tokens are special counters that the player gives to the Narrator in order to activate special abilities, both those provided by her Type and her Style.  Each Type of Hero gains a different sort of Token, and Special Abilities that come from a character's Heroic Type may only be activated by the Tokens provided by that heroic type.

Special Abilities allow the player to change the nature of the game by altering how dice are counted and other tricks.  These abilities allow Adventurous Heroines to be sure of overcoming physical challenges, give Clever Heroines access to tricks to foil their opponent, and grant Idealistic Heroines the ability to boost their allies efforts.

THE ADVENTUROUS HEROINE

Sarah sprinted down the hall after the villainous Count Dargu.  The Count moved surprisingly quick for an old man, but Sarah knew this hall would lead him only to a dead end.  The Count reached the end of the hall, and Sarah was certain she had him -- until he leapt through the window, sending glass raining down on the courtyard below!  The Count didn't fall with the glass, and instead rose up into the air on leathery bat wings that sprouted from underneath his heavy coat.

"You're not getting away that easy!" growled Sarah as she reached the window and leapt.  She sailed through the air flailing her arms and snatched the fleeing Count's ankle. "Got you!" she cried as the count suddenly lost altitude.  A book slipped from his jacket and fell to the ground below.

"Fool girl, I can't carry you too!" screeched the Count as he thrashed his legs and kicked at Sarah's wrist. "Let go of me or we both die!"

Sarah struggled to hold on to the Count, but whatever he'd done to himself had made him strong, and his boots felt like hammers on Sarah's wrist.  Try as she might she could not hold on.

"I really should have thought this all the way through." thought Sarah as she twisted and turned mid-fall to see the ground rushing up towards her...


The Adventurous Heroine excels at facing physical challenges.  She climbs cliffs, swims through raging rivers, and can fight like a wildcat.  She's tough, fast and agile.  Her greatest gift is her unflagging enthusiasm and belief in herself, which gives her the ability to push herself beyond her normal limits.  Her skills are oriented towards physical exertion and athleticism.  She is a loner, and while she benefits greatly from allies she offers little in return.  She is challenged most by frustrating social interactions and intellectual challenges.  Adventurous Heroines gain Action Tokens.

[table][tr][td]Level[/td][td]*[/td][td]♥[/td][td]▼[/td][td]Tokens[/td][td]Special Abilities[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]Amazing Effort[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]6[/td][td]Dauntless Charge[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]5[/td][td]9[/td][td]Fantastic Luck[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]6[/td][td]12[/td][td]Incredible Effort[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]7[/td][td]15[/td][td]Heroic Assist[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]8[/td][td]18[/td][td]Heroine's Heart[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td]9[/td][td]21[/td][td]Favored Destiny[/td][/tr][/table]

Special Abilities
Each time the Adventurous Heroine gains a level, she gains a new special ability.  Unless otherwise noted, the Adventurous Heroine must spend an Action Token to activate an ability.

Amazing Effort
When challenged by a body test the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to give her absolute best effort.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She does not roll the conflict dice. Instead, she immediately gains a number of body (▼) successes equal to three plus her level. 

Dauntless Charge
When challenged by a body test the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to call on a sudden wild rush of enthusiasm.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all heart (♥) pips as body (▼) pips.  She counts all body (▼) pips as normal.

Fantastic Luck
When challenged by a test of the heart, mind or body, the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to rely on her luck to pull her out of trouble. The use of this ability may be declared after the dice are rolled.  The Player immediately rerolls her conflict dice and counts successes as normal.

Incredible Effort
When challenged by a body test the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to give her absolute best effort.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She does not roll the conflict dice. Instead, she immediately gains a number of body (▼) successes equal to the number of number of conflict dice she would have rolled.

Heroic Assist
When an ally is challenged by a body test the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to make a reckless rescue attempt.  The use of this ability must be declared after an ally rolls conflict dice and loses.  That ally immediately rerolls their conflict dice using the Adventurous Heroine's body attribute in place of their own body attribute.  If the ally loses and is damaged, they do not move down their condition track.  Instead the Adventurous Heroine moves down her own condition track.

Heroine's Heart
When challenged by a heart test the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to temporary bolster her confidence in herself.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all body (▼) pips as heart (♥) pips.  She counts all heart (♥) pips as normal.

Favored Destiny
Use of this ability requires a Story Token, not an Action Token.
When challenged by a test of the heart, mind or body the Adventurous Heroine may use this ability to call on her incredible self-confidence and enthusiasm.  The use of this ability may be declared after the dice are rolled. The Player rolls the conflict dice as normal. After seeing the result, she may use a Story Token to immediately discard the results of the roll and gain a number of successes equal to the number of number of conflict dice she rolled.

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On 1/21/2008 at 9:24pm, MKAdams wrote:
Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

THE CLEVER HEROINE
Anne studied the book that had fallen into the courtyard along with Sarah.  It was Count Dargu's encrypted laboratory journal, and Anne knew it contained the secret of the serum that had turned him into a monster.  Anne was determined to uncover that secret.

She began reading the book as Lily and Sarah watched on.  Lily offered occasional encouragement while Sarah decided to raid the kitchen.  As night came, and Lily retired she chided Anne. "Don't strain yourself," she said.

Anne snorted and worked on, her mind racing and the hope of sleep long abandoned.  She was both amazed and horrified by Dargu's genius.  The book was encrypted with a magic key code, and the formulas were written backwards on top of that. Even now that she had decoded it, Anne struggled to accept the staggering weight of what Dargu had discovered.

The next morning Lily and Sarah met in the kitchen nook over eggs and toast.  Anne staggered into the kitchen, eyes red and bloodshot.  "I need tea." she said wearily.

Sarah and Lily looked at her expectantly.  "So," Sarah casually inquired. "Did you figure out what he's done to himself?"

Anne smiled as she poured her tea.  Turning to face her friends, her eyes lit up mischievously.  "Better than that." she said triumphantly.  "I know how to cure him."


The Clever Heroine excels at facing intellectual challenges.  Her mind is her greatest asset, and she always has a trick up her sleeve.  She outwits, perplexes and rattles enemies with clever tricks and taunts.  Her greatest gift is her ability to undermine and trip up others, giving herself an edge.  Her skills are oriented towards intellectual understanding and practical applications.  She is a team-player, and benefits her allies when she befuddles their enemies.  Clever Heroines gain Smart Tokens.

[table][tr][td]Level[/td][td]*[/td][td]♥[/td][td]▼[/td][td]Tokens[/td][td]Special Abilities[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]Practical Thinking[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]6[/td][td]Prediction[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]9[/td][td]Perplexing Ruse[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]12[/td][td]Exploit Flaw[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]7[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]15[/td][td]Font of Knowledge[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]8[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]18[/td][td]Brutal Truth[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]9[/td][td]3[/td][td]5[/td][td]21[/td][td]Ace Up Her Sleeve[/td][/tr][/table]

Special Abilities
Each time the Clever Heroine gains a level, she gains a new special ability.  Unless otherwise noted, the Clever Heroine must spend an Smart Token to activate an ability.

Practical Thinking
When challenged by a test of the body the Clever Heroine may use this ability to use her mind to find a clever solution to increase her effectiveness. The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all mind (*) pips as body (▼) pips.  She counts all body (▼) pips as normal.

Prediction
When challenged by a test or trial of the heart or body the Clever Heroine may use this ability to attempt to predict her opponents next move and get an edge. The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled.  Before the conflict dice are rolled the Clever Heroine picks a number between zero and a number equal to the number of dice the opponent is rolling.  If her opponent rolls the same number of successes, the Clever Hero wins the exchange regardless of how many successes she has.  If her opponent rolls a different number of successes, resolve the exchange as you normally would.

Perplexing Ruse
When challenged by a trial of the heart or body the Clever Heroine may use this ability to confuse and disorient her opponent with tricks and clever surprises.  The use of this ability  must be declared before the dice are rolled.  Before the conflict dice are rolled the Clever Heroine makes a test of the mind.  Her opponent takes a -1 penalty to their conflict dice for every success the Clever Hero achieves beyond two. 

Exploit Flaw
When challenged by a test or trial of the heart or body the Clever Heroine may use this ability to recognize and take advantage of mistakes made by her opponent.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. The Player rolls the conflict dice as normal, but adds all mind (*) pips rolled by her opponent to her own successes.

Font of Knowledge
When an ally is challenged by a trial of the mind the Clever Heroine may use this ability to assist her ally with a quick correction, which is only embarrassing when she's wrong.  The use of this ability must be declared after an ally rolls conflict dice and loses.  That ally immediately rerolls their conflict dice using the Clever Heroine's mind attribute in place of their own mind attribute.  If the ally loses and is forced to move down their condition track, they do not move down their condition track.  Instead the Clever Heroine moves down her own condition track.

Brutal Truth
When challenged by a trial of the heart the Clever Heroine may use philosophical rhetoric to stir up angst in her opponent, but playing with nihilism leaves her doubting her self as well.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but substitutes her mind attribute for her heart attribute.  The Clever Hero immediately moves one step down her own heart condition track and then the exchange is resolved as normal.

Brutal Truth
When challenged by a trial of the heart the Clever Heroine may use philosophical rhetoric to stir up angst in her opponent, but playing with nihilism leaves her doubting her self as well.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but substitutes her mind attribute for her heart attribute.  The Clever Hero immediately moves one step down her own heart condition track and then the exchange is resolved as normal.

Ace Up Her Sleeve
Use of this ability requires a Story Token, not an Action Token.
When involved in a test of the heart, mind or body the Clever Heroine may use this ability to reveal a clever and quite likely incredibly complex plan she set in motion some time ago, which coincidentally has culminated at this very moment to completely and utterly foil her opponent.  The use of this ability may be declared after an opponent's dice are rolled. The Narrator rolls the conflict dice as normal. After seeing the result, the Clever Heroine's player may use a Story Token to immediately discard the results of the roll.  The opponent gains no success.

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On 1/21/2008 at 9:26pm, MKAdams wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

THE IDEALISTIC HEROINE
"Surely you can understand my position Miss Lily," wheezed the decrepit Count Dargu as he backed away.  "It's the serum that's too blame, not I. Not I!"

Lilly held the anti-serum in her hand as she measured the Count's words.

"I do understand my dear Count." A faint smile played across her lips as she met the Count's gaze. "I understand that Anne has discovered a cure for your condition, a cure you have chosen to refuse.  I understand that you a poor, feeble old man desperate for the thrill of power."

"No, no." pleaded the Count. "I need it.  Don't you understand? Without the serum I am too weak to rule.  My enemies will destroy me!  You can't ask it of me.  Please don't ask it of me."

"No Dargu," Lily's voice was firm and Dargu shrank under her gaze. "No more serum, no more powers, no more strength.  You'll drink the anti-serum, and you'll face justice for the crimes you've committed.  It's over."

Dargu look at her with pleading eyes, but he knew she spoke the truth.  With a  trembling hand he took the anti-serum.  He let out a long sigh as he uncorked the vial, and quickly drank it down.  Lily sighed in relief, glad that the ordeal was finally over.


The Idealistic Heroine excels at facing social challenges.  Every Idealistic Heroine has a cause, and she wins the world over by reaching out to others and inspiring them with her sincerity and the power of her faith in her cause.  Her greatest gift is her complete devotion to and faith in the righteousness of her cause.  Her skills are oriented towards social interaction and the humanities.  She is a leader, and benefits her allies greatly, though in turn she relies on them heavily to overcome most challenges.  She is challenged most by difficult physical and intellectual challenges.  Idealistic Heroines gain Boon Tokens.

[table][tr][td]Level[/td][td]*[/td][td]♥[/td][td]▼[/td][td]Tokens[/td][td]Special Abilities[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]Bolster Effort[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]6[/td][td]Enlightened Heart[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]5[/td][td]1[/td][td]9[/td][td]Embolden Ally[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td]2[/td][td]12[/td][td]Inspiring Cheer[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]7[/td][td]2[/td][td]15[/td][td]Great Intuition[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]4[/td][td]8[/td][td]2[/td][td]18[/td][td]Hold The Heart's Hand[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]5[/td][td]9[/td][td]3[/td][td]21[/td][td]Divine Inspiration[/td][/tr][/table]

Special Abilities
Each time the Idealistic Heroine gains a level, she gains a new special ability.  Unless otherwise noted, the Idealistic Heroine must spend an Belief Token to activate an ability.

Bolster Effort
When an ally is challenged by a test of the heart, mind or body the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to inspire her ally with heartening words and praise.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. If the challenge is a mind or body test, her ally rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all heart (♥) pips as body (▼) pips or mind (*) pips depending on the form of conflict.  She counts all body (▼) pips and mind (*) pips as normal.  If the challenge is a heart test,  The Idealistic Heroine's ally must be able to hear and understand her ally rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all heart (♥) pips as two successes.

Enlightened Heart
When challenged by a trial of the heart the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to bring her heart and mind into harmony and gain powerful insights.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all mind (*) pips as heart (♥) pips.  She counts all heart (♥) pips as normal.

Embolden Ally
When an ally of the Idealistic Heroine is challenged by a trial of the heart, mind or body the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to rally her ally with positive encouragement and infectious confidence. The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled.  The Player rolls her conflict dice as normal. Regardless of the result, at the end of the exchange the ally immediately moves one step up the appropriate condition track. The Idealistic Heroine's ally must be able to hear and understand her.

Inspiring Cheer
When an ally is challenged by a trial of the heart, mind, or body the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to bolster her ally with heartening words and praise.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. If the conflict is a trial of the mind or body, her ally rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all heart (♥) pips as body (▼) pips or mind (*) pips depending on the form of conflict.  She counts all body (▼) pips and mind (*) pips as normal.  If the conflict is a  trial of the heart,  her ally rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts each heart (♥) pip as two successes. The Idealistic Heroine's ally must be able to hear and understand her.

Great Intuition
When challenged by a test or trial of the mind the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to place faith in her intuition to lead her to the correct path.  The use of this ability must be declared before the dice are rolled. She rolls the conflict dice as normal, but counts all heart (♥) pips as mind (*) pips.  She counts all mind (*) pips as normal.

Hold The Heart's Hand
When an ally is challenged by a trial of the heart the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to call upon her intimate understanding of her friends and remind them of their greatest strengths at the risk of shattering their confidence.  The use of this ability must be declared after an ally rolls conflict dice and loses.  That ally immediately rerolls their conflict dice using the Idealistic Heroine's heart attribute in place of their own heart attribute.  If the ally loses this second roll, they immediately move one step down their heart condition track in addition to the normal consequences of losing the exchange. The Idealistic Heroine's ally must be able to hear and understand her.

Divine Inspiration
Use of this ability requires a Story Token, not an Belief Token.
When an ally of the Idealistic Heroine is challenged by a test or trial of the heart, mind or body the Idealistic Heroine may use this ability to call on her great faith and confidence in her friends destiny.  The use of this ability may be declared after an ally loses an exchange and moves down one of their own condition tracks.  That ally is immediately restored to the Healthy, Confident or Certain condition, depending on the form of conflict.

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On 1/22/2008 at 11:22pm, dindenver wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

Hi!
  My group just gained 3 new girl gamers (one of them 16). One thing I can tell you is that rules complexity was not an issue. What was an issue was 2 things, setting "coolness" and the ability to make the char they wanted.
  It looks like you have 4 character classes (originally it sounded like you had 4 x 4 to 6, but that seemed to devolve the further you went into char gen). And I didn't see any way to customize (even though this was promised).
If you really want to keep it simple (and I see no reason why you wouldn't), then maybe each level let the player decide between 2 or 3 Special abilities (Like at lvl 0 Idealistic gets to decide between Bolster Effort or See the Brighter Side - she gives the bonus to herself so she can lead by example).
  Also, if you really want to soften the edges, Try setting the mechanic up so its a win/win. As an example, check out ...In Spaaace!
http://www.gregstolze.com/inSpaaace.zip
  In this game, players (including the GM) bid tokens for control over the resolution of conflict. The winner gets to decide the outcome, the loser gets the tokens. The way this plays is, you can't win every conflict, you run out of tokens.
  Some women thrive on competition, but others prefer not to have to seperate themselves from their group. So a mechanic like this plays against both instincts, no?
  Also, as a mild aside. Maybe its worth explaining the "Hero's Journey" story model. So that people don't balk at starting at lvl 0 (kinda humiliating if you don't understand the goal)...

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On 1/23/2008 at 8:08am, MKAdams wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

dindenver wrote: My group just gained 3 new girl gamers (one of them 16). One thing I can tell you is that rules complexity was not an issue. What was an issue was 2 things, setting "coolness" and the ability to make the char they wanted.
  It looks like you have 4 character classes (originally it sounded like you had 4 x 4 to 6, but that seemed to devolve the further you went into char gen). And I didn't see any way to customize (even though this was promised).

Like i said, this is the first of three sections, not the entire thing.  There are three Types (adventurous, clever and idealistic), and a theoretically infinite number of styles.  A character will consist of a Type and a Style.  Note that I haven't finished the Styles section!  The main book will include (as of this moment) 15 Styles, for a total of 45 possible combinations!  One way to think of it as "Races and Classes".  Types are "Races," and Styles are "Classes."  Of course, that metaphor breaks down when you see the Styles, which include "classes" like "Fairy," "Talking Animal," and "Strange Beast."

Once the Type and Style are selected, there will be a system for adding special talents and flaws to fully customize a character.
If you really want to keep it simple (and I see no reason why you wouldn't), then maybe each level let the player decide between 2 or 3 Special abilities (Like at lvl 0 Idealistic gets to decide between Bolster Effort or See the Brighter Side - she gives the bonus to herself so she can lead by example).

That would remove the Idealists inherent flaw: she needs allies.
Also, if you really want to soften the edges, Try setting the mechanic up so its a win/win. As an example, check out ...In Spaaace!
http://www.gregstolze.com/inSpaaace.zip
  In this game, players (including the GM) bid tokens for control over the resolution of conflict. The winner gets to decide the outcome, the loser gets the tokens. The way this plays is, you can't win every conflict, you run out of tokens.

Interesting, I've never heard of this game, but I'm working on a similar system where players get "plot control points" (called Story Tokens) for playing along with the Narrator's story, which they can then use to "buy" scenes.
Some women thrive on competition, but others prefer not to have to seperate themselves from their group. So a mechanic like this plays against both instincts, no?

Umm...did you mean it plays to both instincts?  A game that plays against everyone's instincts is pretty much doomed to a reeking pit of fail.
Also, as a mild aside. Maybe its worth explaining the "Hero's Journey" story model. So that people don't balk at starting at lvl 0 (kinda humiliating if you don't understand the goal)...

Well, characters start at level 0 for one simple reason:  To rise in level players have to collect Story Tokens, which they use to buy Destiny Tokens (5 ST = 1 DT).  They then use Destiny Tokens to buy new levels, at a cost equal to the level they are moving up to.  So it costs 1 DT to get to 1st level, 2 for 2nd, 3 for 3rd,..., 6 for 6th.  If everyone starts at 1st level, then you start having to do math to figure out how many destiny tokens you need to level.  Starting at zero keeps it clean and intuitive, which is one of my design aims.  And yes, there will be a lengthy section explaining the "Hero's Journey" model of storytelling, and how it applies to the game.

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On 1/23/2008 at 5:04pm, VoidDragon wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

MKAdams wrote:
I'm just looking for feedback on comprehendability (is that even a word?) and "fun." 

I've not had the time to look through all the abilities, but I would rate comprehensibility high.  Fun is a little harder to tell, but I think it has potential.  In particular, I find the mechanic and types you've chosen give a certain desirable color to your game. 

A question: must characters start out with a type, or is it possible to play a character who discovers her attitudes and type of inner strength as the game progresses?

Note that I carry baggage from d20 Modern, which colors my opinions on your structure of character creation.  For instance, was it your intention that the Adventurous heroine have slightly more potential for higher stats?  As soon as she hits level 3, the sum of her traits is one higher than like-level heroines of other types.

MKAdams wrote:
Does reading this make you excited to learn more about the game?

I do await hearing further about how the remainder of the game works. ^^

-JT

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On 1/23/2008 at 6:16pm, dindenver wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

Hi!
  I think the idea that they start at lvl 0 because they have to start low to move up is broken logic for most women.
  I think if you take the time to pimp out the Hero's Journey aspect of starting at a low level, you can get through to gamers that aren't so ambitious.
  I say this because for women, the need to "prove themselves" is not such a strong drive. Most of the milestones in a woman's life are very real and tangible. They are girls until their first period, they are women until their first baby, they are mothers until their first grandchild, etc. There is no doubt where they stand or who they are.
  Also, you are the designer, you can call it whatever you want. If you want you could just edit your little table and call lvl 6, lvl 0 and lvl 0, lvl 6 and have them start at lvl 6 and count down. There is no math, just a table lookup. for that matter you could call the level pony and horsey. After all, its your game.
  I do think you have a good frame work and a solid design goal. Good luck man!

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On 1/23/2008 at 10:55pm, MKAdams wrote:
RE: Re: [Wonderland Project] Heroic Types

Jason wrote: I've not had the time to look through all the abilities, but I would rate comprehensibility high.  Fun is a little harder to tell, but I think it has potential.  In particular, I find the mechanic and types you've chosen give a certain desirable color to your game.
 

Excellent!

A question: must characters start out with a type, or is it possible to play a character who discovers her attitudes and type of inner strength as the game progresses?


As written, players will be required to select a type, but it's my intention to leave the game open for expansion, and it would certainly be possible to create a rulesset for a level 00 that was untyped, and could become typed in play.  That said, I'd rather keep to the "create character then play" paradigm in the core rules than try to introduce a "create, play, finish creation" paradigm, which in my experience is more complex and never quite as popular as the straight-to-concept design scheme.

Note that I carry baggage from d20 Modern, which colors my opinions on your structure of character creation.  For instance, was it your intention that the Adventurous heroine have slightly more potential for higher stats?  As soon as she hits level 3, the sum of her traits is one higher than like-level heroines of other types.

No, that's a typo.  Argh.  Got so caught up in formatting it for the forum I didn't realize I'd copied the wrong tables.  All of the average stats should advance like so:

0:2
1:2
2:3
3:4
4:4
5:5
6:6

So at 6th level, each type has a 3, a 6, and a 9.

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