1.) What is your game about?
Kaneon is a steampunkish (Spelljaming vessels, firearms, jelly showers) world, where for thousands of years was a magicalogical (failed magic experiments) dumping ground for a very magic/tech race called the Bloodrots who lived on the twin world of Pittorg. One of the Bloodrots slew a Eldar god, thier punishment was their race was wiped from the face of the universe save 7 who where faced to live on Kaneon. 6 accepted their fate and planned on living peacefully the rest of thier days, one choose not to and became a god and slew the others.. Nations rose and fell, gods have came and when. It has almost a dozen new races, all new gods, tons of new rules, new weapons, new armor, new classes

2.) What do the characters do?
With almost 25,000 years of history, its wide open

3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
Since Kaneon uses heavily modifed d20 rules, pretty much if you know D&D and d20

4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
The setting is for those that wish to adventure in a steampunkish D&D world/universe

5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
Its not for the weak, so adventurers are usually powerfully, however the enemy is just as powerful.

6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
Role Playing, using the enivorment and your abilities to the best

7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
The gods take a more active role in the lifes of mortals since their power (aleast for the lesser and greater gods) are directly in tune with thier worshippers

8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?
Not sure how to answer that

9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
See answer #1 and #2

10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
Mostly stock D&D but with rules for the new items (ie guns are powerful but pricey, semi-rare and some nations have laws against them), magic and cleric spells are mana based

11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
You tend to find out very quick if your not good your dead

12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
Level based advancment based on a set scale for how many Character Points you use during creation (ie a powerful character advances more slowly than a weaker one)

13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
See answer #12

14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
To get back to the more basic D&D where it was all about the adventure, that your character is a full favored extension of yourself and not a cardboard cutout

15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
The history and the land, because I want Kaneon to have the detail and favor of Tolkien and CS Lewis

16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
Characters can rise to godhood, they can make a different, they can have a long epic adventure

17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can’t, don’t, or won’t?
Players can go to other worlds, they can become gods, or become lengends

18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
Not sure ATM, still debating the question do I want a hobby to become my job

19.) Who is your target audience?
All RPGer's

Hi Orion,

Re: your hobby becoming your job, I would love to make a living doing RPG design myself, but most of the info I've been given has led me to believe that the best case scenario in indie publishing is in the vicnity of "make 10k a year after 5+ years of having really successful product out there", and there are only a few guys writing game text for Wizards of the Coast etc. who make much more (someone at Mongoose gave me a guess that Monte Cook makes 30k).  Anyway, feel free to inquire further in the Publishing forum.  I'm no expert.

For this thread, let us know what kind of feedback you want on Kaneon!  Any one of your 19 answers could spawn a long discussion, so tell us where you want to start!

Hi there!

Welcome to the Forge.  I hope that you find this place really helpful for your game design.  I have a few points and questions about your game.  It's a good start, but as with any design, it could use some polishing and a tightening of the focus.

2.) What do the characters do?
With almost 25,000 years of history, its wide open

Re: your hobby becoming your job, I would love to make a living doing RPG design myself, but most of the info I've been given has led me to believe that the best case scenario in indie publishing is in the vicnity of "make 10k a year after 5+ years of having really successful product out there"

David wrote:
Hi Orion,

Re: your hobby becoming your job, I would love to make a living doing RPG design myself, but most of the info I've been given has led me to believe that the best case scenario in indie publishing is in the vicnity of "make 10k a year after 5+ years of having really successful product out there", and there are only a few guys writing game text for Wizards of the Coast etc. who make much more (someone at Mongoose gave me a guess that Monte Cook makes 30k).  Anyway, feel free to inquire further in the Publishing forum.  I'm no expert.

For this thread, let us know what kind of feedback you want on Kaneon!  Any one of your 19 answers could spawn a long discussion, so tell us where you want to start!

Troy_Costisick wrote:
Hi there!

Welcome to the Forge.  I hope that you find this place really helpful for your game design.  I have a few points and questions about your game.  It's a good start, but as with any design, it could use some polishing and a tightening of the focus.

2.) What do the characters do?
With almost 25,000 years of history, its wide open

Sometimes "wide open" can prove to be a barrier to play.  When anything is possible, the players can feel at a loss as to what their goals and aspirations for their characters should be.  It's kind of like telling a classroom full of high school kids to "write a paper" without giving them any guidelines or structure.  They'll be lost and the quality of the work will vary a great deal.  So let me ask, of all the things characters *could* do in your game, what are the five most interesting things to you as the designer/player?

Re: your hobby becoming your job, I would love to make a living doing RPG design myself, but most of the info I've been given has led me to believe that the best case scenario in indie publishing is in the vicnity of "make 10k a year after 5+ years of having really successful product out there"

I want to echo David's sentiment here.  It's easy to make a profit selling games.  It's darn near impossible to make a living doing that.  If you have a chance to talk to Fred Hicks (iago here on the boards) about it, perhaps he can give you some pointers.  Based on the experience I've had prublishing games, I would suggest having modest goals for your first publication.  Treat it as a learning experience that you can apply later.  If you exceed your modest goals, then great!  That's awesome.  But if you fail miserably to meet an extreemly high target for success, it could discourage you from ever taking up the design process again.  And that's really all I have to say about that.  It's not something that's really pertinent to your design.  The publishing forum is really a better place to discuss the business end of RPG publication. 

Peace,

-Troy

oriondarkwood wrote:
As far as feedback on Kaneon I am not looking specfic feedback pre say more just to see what interest it would generate.

After providing that caution, I feel I should try to be more encouraging, so here, I'll say what interests me most about your write-up:

The combination of

oriondarkwood wrote:
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
The gods take a more active role in the lifes of mortals since their power (aleast for the lesser and greater gods) are directly in tune with thier worshippers

oriondarkwood wrote:
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
Characters can rise to godhood

David wrote:

oriondarkwood wrote:
As far as feedback on Kaneon I am not looking specfic feedback pre say more just to see what interest it would generate.

Just FYI, ideas posted here on the Forge tend to get more interested responses when they include some sort of "here's what I want help with".

David wrote:
After providing that caution, I feel I should try to be more encouraging, so here, I'll say what interests me most about your write-up:

The combination of

oriondarkwood wrote:
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
The gods take a more active role in the lifes of mortals since their power (aleast for the lesser and greater gods) are directly in tune with thier worshippers

with

oriondarkwood wrote:
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
Characters can rise to godhood

I like games that include both
a) some interesting, colorful, multi-faceted pantheons and metaphysics, and
b) some ways for players to enmesh themselves in those.

Re: your character point and XP scheme, I'm still not sure what you want help with.  If you tell me what you hope it'll accomplish, and you want to know whether people here think it will accomplish that, then I could weigh in on that... although I don't know how much that'd really be useful to you.

oriondarkwood wrote: Bob would replace (thur combat or other means) the current Relvar which happens to be the god of war and adventure in Kaneon

David wrote:
Re: your character point and XP scheme, I'm still not sure what you want help with.  If you tell me what you hope it'll accomplish, and you want to know whether people here think it will accomplish that, then I could weigh in on that... although I don't know how much that'd really be useful to you.

oriondarkwood wrote: Bob would replace (thur combat or other means) the current Relvar which happens to be the god of war and adventure in Kaneon

As a player thinking of playing Kaneon, one of my first questions might be:

Am I guaranteed to become a god?  Or am I at least guaranteed the opportunity to become a god?  Like, I can win godhood by playing well?  If I do get to become a god, how long will I ahve to play the game to get there?

Was Curin a player character?  If so, how long did this saga take in play sessions?  (I am trying to figure out what Kaneon offers beyond any D&D game, and this is the first thing that occurs to me.  In D&D3, you'd have to tweak the XP awards like crazy to pull this off in less than multiple years.  I think.)

David wrote:
Was Curin a player character?  If so, how long did this saga take in play sessions?  (I am trying to figure out what Kaneon offers beyond any D&D game, and this is the first thing that occurs to me.  In D&D3, you'd have to tweak the XP awards like crazy to pull this off in less than multiple years.  I think.)

I didn't say that quite right.  Rather than "how was Kaneon as you have already played it different from other games", what I'm trying to get at is "what can you offer to players with Kaneon?"

Like, let's say I want to play D&D, and I want to use steampunk flavor, and I want to travel galaxies, and I want to play races and classes that I haven't played in my previous D&D games.  Well, I can do all that myself.  So I'll only bother with Kaneon products if they help me do that in some significant way.  What ways do you intend to provide such help?

Or, let's say I want to play D&D, but I want inspiration to try something new.  What inspires me?  Cool ideas, good stories, distinct visual style, great art, quality writing.  Kaneon would have to do very well on some of those fronts to hook my interest.  What ways do you intend to provide inspiration?

Hope this is helpful.  If you'd prefer to steer this thread in a different direction, just say so.

Ps,
-David

P.S. I wouldn't include something that takes 2 years of 11 hrs/wk to achieve as a hook for prospective players.  I'd either keep "players as demi-gods" as a clearly secondary feature, or I'd make it a big hook and start everyone at 19th level.

David wrote:
I didn't say that quite right.  Rather than "how was Kaneon as you have already played it different from other games", what I'm trying to get at is "what can you offer to players with Kaneon?"

Like, let's say I want to play D&D, and I want to use steampunk flavor, and I want to travel galaxies, and I want to play races and classes that I haven't played in my previous D&D games.  Well, I can do all that myself.  So I'll only bother with Kaneon products if they help me do that in some significant way.  What ways do you intend to provide such help?

Or, let's say I want to play D&D, but I want inspiration to try something new.  What inspires me?  Cool ideas, good stories, distinct visual style, great art, quality writing.  Kaneon would have to do very well on some of those fronts to hook my interest.  What ways do you intend to provide inspiration?

Hope this is helpful.  If you'd prefer to steer this thread in a different direction, just say so.

Ps,
-David

P.S. I wouldn't include something that takes 2 years of 11 hrs/wk to achieve as a hook for prospective players.  I'd either keep "players as demi-gods" as a clearly secondary feature, or I'd make it a big hook and start everyone at 19th level.

Cool!  To me, that sounds like a quality d20 sourcebook.  Lots of info about the world and inspirational fiction, with a lot of specific applications of d20 rules (e.g. character classes) tailored to the setting, plus maybe a few new mechanics to integrate with d20 rules. 

I recommend browsing through your game store's d20 worldbooks and seeing which are the most appealing to you in terms of content.  This would probably help you decide what any published (or, y'know, "offered to others" in some form) version of Kaneon ought to include.

If you want to see a distinctive d20 game that takes general D&D play into a very specific new place, I recommend Slaine.  (I should admit that I haven't played it.  I just read it and was impressed.)

How large an area of the universe are you going to write up?  Is the scope of your project a nation, or a continent, or a planet, or many planets that the PCs might travel to and fro from on a regular basis?

Do you have a list of your races?  Are they all from the same planet?

Oh, also, how do the steam punk elements make an adventurer's life different than what it might normally be in a fantasy game?  Does anyone still use swords and heavy armor, or are they all armed with rifles?  Can you cross a continent in a couple of days by hopping on a train?

David wrote:
Cool!  To me, that sounds like a quality d20 sourcebook.  Lots of info about the world and inspirational fiction, with a lot of specific applications of d20 rules (e.g. character classes) tailored to the setting, plus maybe a few new mechanics to integrate with d20 rules. 

I recommend browsing through your game store's d20 worldbooks and seeing which are the most appealing to you in terms of content.  This would probably help you decide what any published (or, y'know, "offered to others" in some form) version of Kaneon ought to include.

If you want to see a distinctive d20 game that takes general D&D play into a very specific new place, I recommend Slaine.  (I should admit that I haven't played it.  I just read it and was impressed.)

Greg wrote:

How large an area of the universe are you going to write up?  Is the scope of your project a nation, or a continent, or a planet, or many planets that the PCs might travel to and fro from on a regular basis?

Do you have a list of your races?  Are they all from the same planet?

Greg wrote:

Oh, also, how do the steam punk elements make an adventurer's life different than what it might normally be in a fantasy game?  Does anyone still use swords and heavy armor, or are they all armed with rifles?  Can you cross a continent in a couple of days by hopping on a train?

oriondarkwood wrote:

Hmm well everything from the mundane ie a typical day in Derg (the highest tech nation in Kaneon and also the only nation to have a spaceport) a average day could see a character waking up taking a jelly shower (tech/magic device that forces dirty water thur a gelatinous cube and then it rains down on the character, the water is headed by powered kstyals), checking the local citybrain (a tech magic hyper sentient organic computer that is in some of the larger more technological advanced cities) for the time of the tenzor races (air races by steam powered craft that go in excess of 300MPH thanks to a magical coat of oil that reduces friction) and to see if thier spell jamming craft is repaired. Then check thier postbag for mail (custom bag of holding for mail, imagine a portable post office).

Greg wrote:

oriondarkwood wrote:

Hmm well everything from the mundane ie a typical day in Derg (the highest tech nation in Kaneon and also the only nation to have a spaceport) a average day could see a character waking up taking a jelly shower (tech/magic device that forces dirty water thur a gelatinous cube and then it rains down on the character, the water is headed by powered kstyals), checking the local citybrain (a tech magic hyper sentient organic computer that is in some of the larger more technological advanced cities) for the time of the tenzor races (air races by steam powered craft that go in excess of 300MPH thanks to a magical coat of oil that reduces friction) and to see if thier spell jamming craft is repaired. Then check thier postbag for mail (custom bag of holding for mail, imagine a portable post office).

Interesting!  I am no expert on D20, but I don't recall seeing something like this for it.  If I were you, I would focus on presenting Derg and the other high-tech cities.  For areas that are more "stock" D&D, you are competing for attention with every other "stock" D&D setting.  Even if your "stock" stuff is better, people won't know that unless they read it in the first place.  Derg, on the other hand, has a "hook" that might get people reading.

What about starting with a writeup focussing on Derg (and Talon, if the technological kingdoms are neighbors) with just basic information about the other nations.  Then, as followups, you could write up the other nations.  Derg has an immediate hook in the steampunk element.  That hook sets is aside immediately from other settings (that I know of).  If people like it, then the hooks for later writeups would be that they occur in the familiar world-of-Derg.

Greg wrote:

What about starting with a writeup focussing on Derg (and Talon, if the technological kingdoms are neighbors) with just basic information about the other nations.  Then, as followups, you could write up the other nations.  Derg has an immediate hook in the steampunk element.  That hook sets is aside immediately from other settings (that I know of).  If people like it, then the hooks for later writeups would be that they occur in the familiar world-of-Derg.