This is my Power 19 for a new idea I’ve been working on the last days. I really need feedback on the effects of lack of advancement (12 and 13), and better defined things for characters to do (2). Of course, feedback on other points of the Power 19 is very appreciated, beforehand.

And do I need a title that fits better? Untold Tales, perhaps?

Forgotten Tales is heavily influenced by the Fables comic and strongly influenced by Vincent Baker’s Otherkind.

1.) What is your game about?**

Forgotten Tales is about Tales that live among humans, in our ordinary world. Tales are the embodiment of a fairy tale that we have stopped telling, which forced them to leave their realm to come to the Mundane, expecting both to fulfill their Stories and escape dreadful Oblivion. On the Mundane, things work a bit different from what Tales know, who must rely on Notoriety now to Succeed. It’s a game of how much power a Tale can wield and the price to pay for it – on the Mundane, everything is more serious, seriousness that comes as a Shadow; it’s a game when controlling Narration equals to control the World.

Who tells whose Story?

2.) What do the characters do?**

Characters try to live their Stories, which Aspects lead them to certain conflicts. Also, since characters have Vows to some Harbinger (name for those Tales who crossed first the Portals to the Mundane), they might pay service to stay on the Mundane. Besides, Tales cause Notoriety to go up and down, which can lead both to Weird and Oblivion manifesting and Tales know those phenomena must be kept in check, specially if there are Chimera involved.

3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?**

Players take the role of one Tale, each. Since the system makes all players gamble to control Narration, among other things, they’ll have to narrate the result of some actions.
GM manages NPCs, proposes a story, challenges PCs and tries to take control of Narration off the other players by spending Weird. From another viewpoint, GM’s job is to provide situations that make players care enough about to affect Notoriety, even though this leads to Weird and Oblivion.

4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?

Since setting is intentionally mundane while immensely affected by Tales, it reinforces the fact that they are something else, a Narrative Power. Oblivion and Weird coming are both reactions to their presence and their very existence, as well as enforcing the fact that the Mundane is not part of PC’s Story, so they’ll have to make it so.

5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?

There is a clear distinction between Mundane and Story traits (Essences, Vow, Flaw, Shadow and Themes), giving special attention to the latter. Flaw and Vow are chosen by the player, while Shadow is chosen by another, non-GM player (unless it’s a solo game), bringing home the point that being on the Mundane changed Tales.

6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?

It rewards players controlling Narration, in spite of Success, not only because of the immediate benefit of narrating things player’s way but allowing them to control weather Notoriety will go up in case they Succeeded or choosing whether Oblivion or Weird go up when Notoriety is high enough.
Besides, it’s a great way to bring Story Aspects on play, which is also rewarded.

7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?

Essences are both Effectiveness and “Hitpoints”; bringing Themes on play allows to regain uses for those Aspects.
Flaws and Shadow lessen Notoriety, avoiding the risk of Weird or Oblivion. Shadow also resets Oblivion when brought on play.
Controlling Narration allows players to get a Mundane Success, which doesn’t add to Notoriety, without resorting to limited-use Mundane traits.

8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?

If no player opposes, GM is responsible of narration and credibility. When Tales act, resolution might hand Narration and credibility over to players.

9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)

Players, on an average roll, choose whether their characters Succeed, lose something because of their actions and affect the gameworld and narration itself, even taking control of the latter. Only players can make things easier for them, investing on raising Notoriety.

10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?

Player declares intent, picks Essence or Mundane Trait if applicable and rolls 3d6, player chooses (after the roll) one for Narration, one for Success and one for Integrity; players can get an additional die by spending an Essence dot. Rolling under or equal to Integrity is good – the effect depends on the die:
Narration – player has narration rights and can narrate a Success as Mundane, which doesn’t add to Notoriety. In case of fail, GM gets to narrate.
Success – player intent is successful. If player picked an Essence, the Success is Bright and adds 1 to Notoriety, unless is Narrated as Mundane; GM always narrates a success as Bright if possible.
Integrity – PC doesn’t lose Essence, spend Mundane Trait nor gains Oblivion. In case of fail apply Essence or Mundane loss or add to Oblivion.

11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?

They’re about narrative power and what is gambled to get it.

12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?

I think characters should only advance on the Mundane traits, but I’m still unsure of this – it will be a setting-based decision (currently, Harbingers should have more dots on Mundane than the rest of Tales, not only PCs)

13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?

Tales aren’t people. They don’t evolve like humans do, they try to fulfill.

14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?

The feeling that they are Tales, that controlling Narration/Success is not a metafiction  or metagame process but the fiction, game and characters themselves. This game doesn’t try to solve the paradox that is that GMs and players determine what happens – it embraces it.

15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?

Mechanics, because it is the core of the game and story.

16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?

See 15)

17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can’t, don’t, or won’t?

It provides a very gamist (managing Notoriety and bringing Themes into scene), simulationist (setting) and narrativist (thematic) reason to try and control Narration (and Success, to a lesser degree).

18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?

Probably, making it a pdf. I still must learn about paying online (PayPal, for instance) and I’m thinking on releasing the core for free. If people get to like it, I might expand setting, add Chimeras, GM advice, things like that – but I have to finish the core first.

19.) Who is your target audience?

People who like rules-lite games, focused on narrativist (as opposed to capitol-N Narrativist Creative Agenda) mechanics, who also enjoy the idea of playing a Tale.

I don't think that lack of advancement really hurts a game like this. For one thing, a game focusing on narration doesn't need new abilities as much as more action oriented games to keep things fresh, because presumably) the narration does this for you. Second of all, if the characters are embodiments of classic tales (which by their definition, are always the same) then it wouldn't make much sense in game for them to advance either.

Also, I agree that you need to better define what characters are supposed to do, seeing as they have to do something and the players aren't always going to have something creative on hand, especially in a setting that's nonstandard like yours. Unfortunately, i have no idea on how exactly you should go about defining that better. Maybe by making some innate drives to each character? I suppose you'd know best, being the games creator and all.

Also, good luck on the game. I really did like the fables comics, and an RPG based on them sounds interesting.

whi wrote: Also, I agree that you need to better define what characters are supposed to do, seeing as they have to do something and the players aren't always going to have something creative on hand, especially in a setting that's nonstandard like yours (...) Maybe by making some innate drives to each character?

wrote: Tales are the embodiment of a fairy tale that we have stopped telling, which forced them to leave their realm to come to the Mundane, expecting both to fulfill their Stories and escape dreadful Oblivion.

How do the PCs cooperate?

What is the world like?

What happens if you kill your antagonist?

Thanks for those questions, Greg. Let me see...

Greg wrote:

How do the PCs cooperate?

What is the world like?

What happens if you kill your antagonist?

Hi Ian,

I'm looking at this from a different angle - can Tales consummate or fulfill their story in the Mundane?  Can I-Smell-Blood ever find the Black Tiger?  If so, can advancement tie into this (that is, the Tale is coming ever closer to finishing their story via advancement)?  Also, what happens if Tales do end their story? Does I-Smell-Blood and Black Tiger fade away? Or instead are they always kind of doomed to be hunter and hunted while they figure their way in the Mundane? 

I haven't read the comics, so forgive me if these questions are pretty far off-base from what you are going for, but I like the idea very much of Fairy Tales coming alive in the real (mundane) world, and the tragic sort of relief of finally achieving their end struck me hard as a very interesting possibility.

Also - I just want to question this - DO the Players need to cooperate in a group sense? Perhaps a Sorcerer-esque weaving of paths may be more inline - they each have their own story going on, occasionally crossing. If the gm plays the backstory well, they can very naturally work together (or not), as the Players see fit.

Dustin

Wow, Dustin, that last post is full of awesome stuff! Thank you so much.

Dustin wrote:
I'm looking at this from a different angle - can Tales consummate or fulfill their story in the Mundane?  Can I-Smell-Blood ever find the Black Tiger?  If so, can advancement tie into this (that is, the Tale is coming ever closer to finishing their story via advancement)?  Also, what happens if Tales do end their story? Does I-Smell-Blood and Black Tiger fade away? Or instead are they always kind of doomed to be hunter and hunted while they figure their way in the Mundane?

I haven't read the comics, so forgive me if these questions are pretty far off-base from what you are going for, but I like the idea very much of Fairy Tales coming alive in the real (mundane) world, and the tragic sort of relief of finally achieving their end struck me hard as a very interesting possibility.

Also - I just want to question this - DO the Players need to cooperate in a group sense? Perhaps a Sorcerer-esque weaving of paths may be more inline - they each have their own story going on, occasionally crossing. If the gm plays the backstory well, they can very naturally work together (or not), as the Players see fit.

Hi Ian,

Sweet! That sounds really interesting to me.  I agree that you want to stick Tales fulfilling their Story right at the heart of play, then.

In Polaris, there is a nifty mechanic that might give you some inspiration with how to do that.  There is a stat thing called "Zeal/Weariness" that, more or less, is a marker for how close that character is from their endgame.  Zeal falls to 0, and then Weariness accumulates.  When Weariness reaches 4 (I think, I don't have the book with me at the moment), the endgame occurs for that character.  There are two other stats, Ice and Light, which are the characters effectiveness in conflict.  Now, if the character advances - they get to choose one (Ice or Light), and advance that effectiveness.  But they also have to drop Zeal or raise Weariness.  So advancement is both character advancement and the endgame condition all in one.  This sort of thing might help with your Tale design.

As far as spotlight hogging goes, I've found that a simple card-like turn system works really well.  Each player gets a scene (or scenes, or what-have-you) in clockwise order.  Players get it immediately - in traditional RPGs, combat usually works in turns, and most everyone has played boardgames or cardgames, and they work the same way. Its only RPGs that kind-of have this crazy free-for-all, everyone trying to grab the gm's time, effect.  A good gm is able to keep it in hand, but an average gm (like me) tends to let the player with the strongest social skills get the most screen time.  So moving to something more formal aids me, personally. Maybe enforcing something like this through the rules might help?