Topic: Beneath the Veil - A Game of Negative Utopia (I NEED QUIRKS!!!)
Started by: Klaus Graziade
Started on: 9/19/2008
Board: First Thoughts
On 9/19/2008 at 5:32am, Klaus Graziade wrote:
Beneath the Veil - A Game of Negative Utopia (I NEED QUIRKS!!!)
Dear Forge,
So I've been working long and hard on several game avenues and am near ready to test the game that has eventually become Beneath the Veil. Anywho, long story short, it's a dieselpunk dystopian game set amidst a group of cloudy isles that make aerial navigation hazardous and makes it easy for the renegades of the dystopian technocracies to hide in the shadows.
After reading reviews of games like Cold City, Sorcerer, Nemesis, etc., I've come to the conclusion that I am definitively going to be using a d10 based pool system. The basic rules are similar to the aforementioned games (rolls are always opposed, etc.). However, I'm having trouble adding quirks to the game that make it them special to my setting. Plus, I'd feel godawful just ripping off someone's system, even if it is a game for my friends and me. Needless to say, here's what I've come up with:
Spheres: Your basic attribute/skill scores. Each is used contextually. If you want to fight with a knife, you use your body based sphere. If you want to threaten with it, you use your passion/rage based sphere. Etc. etc. These are the core attributes that determine the basic pool size.
Checks: Checks are always based on opposed pools. Like numbers after the dice are cast cancel each other out on a 1:1 basis. (e.g. 3, 4, 7 vs. 3, 6, 7 = 4 vs. 6 and so forth). This is done regardless of how high the numbers are. Like always cancels like (reminds me of Risk a bit, especially because I always grant the defender as having advantage here).
Whoever comes out on top of the checks deals the number of successes in "hits" to their opponent (be in animate or inanimate, etc.). Basically, you get the high number after cancellations, you win.
Aspects: Basically your specializations that add or subtract dice from the pool. +1, -1, -3, etc.
===============================================
Okay, here's where I'm lost:
What can I do with the other elements I want to incorporate? Here's what they are so far....
Artifacts: Super Special items...not sure how to use that mechanically.
Fates: Things intimately tied into the character's being/past/story. Also not sure how to use them mechanically.
Ideas I had include clunky stuff like allowing fates to add d6s to the pool on the off chance that will aid in cancellations, etc.
Basically, to sum it all up, here is my major question:
How can I mechanically incorporate additional skill-like elements into a simple d10 based pool system? I guess that's the best way to put it. I'm just terribly confused and frustrated and calling out for help!!!
On 9/20/2008 at 12:13am, Vulpinoid wrote:
Re: Beneath the Veil - A Game of Negative Utopia (I NEED QUIRKS!!!)
It's a bit clunky, but you could add skill bonuses to the face values after they've been cancelled out. The problem with this is that it then slows actions down by a further degree.
1. Roll dice
2. Eliminate opposing pairs
3. Modify remaining dice
4. Compare final results
In a game of elegant and courtly intrigue it might be nice to have the die mechanic convolute and twist a bit more than necessary, but the setting that your describing has hazards, shadows and an attitude of rebellion (diesel-punk), so I don't think this would be the right avenue to pursue.
Simpler option might be to include specific die colours. For the sake of this example, I'll say white dice are "standard", red dice are "special" and black dice are "awesome".
When you roll dice and eliminate them, you might need an equal or higher degree of die to eliminate the opponent. One side of the conflict can only use their white dice to counter opposing white dice. Red dice can be used to counter an opponents white dice or red dice (as long as they match). Black dice can be used to counter anything (as long as the match happens).
This adds an extra element of skill to a character...using your example...
Klaus wrote:
Like numbers after the dice are cast cancel each other out on a 1:1 basis. (e.g. 3, 4, 7 vs. 3, 6, 7 = 4 vs. 6 and so forth). This is done regardless of how high the numbers are. Like always cancels like (reminds me of Risk a bit, especially because I always grant the defender as having advantage here).
Lets say the die results were 3, 4, 7 vs. 3, 6, 7...now the 3's cancel cleanly, the 7's partially cancel out. The regular die is eliminated because it's a standard die, but the red 7 doesn't get cancelled out because the opposing die wasn't powerful enough. The first player wins instead of the second due to their better skill (or due to any other effects that might be improving the die type).
Players would be able to upgrade their die type based on the fates you've determined, and maybe with the artifacts as well.
Example: I've got three dice to play with, a level 2 fate that incorporates my background as a sniper and a level 1 artifact in the form of a sniper rifle. I can now choose to upgrade two of my dice from "standards" to "specials" through my fate. But what do I do with my bonus from the sniper rifle, do I use it to turn one of my "specials" into an "awesome"?? Or do I upgrade my third "standard" to a "special"?? Players who innately understand probability and mathematics will adjust accordingly depending on the situation. (Case 1...He's only got standard dice, so there's no benefit pushing from special to awesome...Case 2...She's got half a hand of special dice, so it'd be really nice to have an awesome one available now).
This is just the first system to come to mind, I'm sure there are plenty of others.
V
On 9/20/2008 at 4:45am, imago wrote:
RE: Re: Beneath the Veil - A Game of Negative Utopia (I NEED QUIRKS!!!)
Klaus wrote:
Okay, here's where I'm lost:
What can I do with the other elements I want to incorporate? Here's what they are so far....
Artifacts: Super Special items...not sure how to use that mechanically.
Fates: Things intimately tied into the character's being/past/story. Also not sure how to use them mechanically.
Ideas I had include clunky stuff like allowing fates to add d6s to the pool on the off chance that will aid in cancellations, etc.
Basically, to sum it all up, here is my major question:
How can I mechanically incorporate additional skill-like elements into a simple d10 based pool system? I guess that's the best way to put it. I'm just terribly confused and frustrated and calling out for help!!!
Emphasis mine.
It all comes to simulate the effects those traits should have on game. For instance (examples included on brackets):
• Artifacts: Do they just enhance Effectiveness (grant more dice) or do they also get nice added effects (rerolls on certain Spheres?)
• Fates: Do they affect character only, triggering under certain circumstances (roll a die. change up X dice to that number) or is it the other way around (effect opposition checks; tap them to create the circumstances those Fates dictate)?
If you can explain more clearly what those traits should do, then we will be more able to help you.
(oh, and your game demands a Veil mechanic of any sort)
On 9/20/2008 at 6:25am, Klaus Graziade wrote:
RE: Re: Beneath the Veil - A Game of Negative Utopia (I NEED QUIRKS!!!)
Vulpinoid: Thanks for the advice. I like your ideas about using the levels of dice, however, I think it might not work best for my target audience (i.e. my gaming group). However, I very much agree with the idea that modifying the remaining dice is definitely adding to the clunkiness of the system.
Imago: After some initial playtesting, I found that Fates, Artifacts, and Aspects could all be grouped into one larger Aspect category. It proved to be pretty successful.