So I am getting ready to layout my first book in INdesign. Done several dry runs without art. Our illustrations and cover art will be ready soon. People tell me I must use photoshop to put art in my layout. Is this true? Why? Can I just use the images that my artist sends me (which he sets up in photoshop anyways), without using photoshop myself? What are the cheaper alternatives if I really need to use a program like photoshop. Are there any problems I should be aware of when putting art into my INdesign layout?

It's not true. Use GIMP. There's probably a fair 0.1% of instances where you'll need to do something that turns out to be easier in photoshop, but you'll never save enough time to make it worth paying for.

http://www.gimp.org

You should be able to place (File->Place) into InDesign with no difficulty whatsoever.

yrs--
--Ben

Regardless of what anyone else might tell you, Photoshop is the best choice for image editing software, and will likely be for the foreseeable future.

But...

You almost certainly do not need to use it.  The GIMP is free and it's basically equivalent to the second-to-last version of Photoshop.  There may be some brand spanking new features the latest version of Photoshop has that aren't in the GIMP, but it's unlikely your project will absolutely require them.  The only real gotcha with the GIMP is that it's interface isn't as slick or as intuitive as Photoshop's, but this is less true of the latest version of the GIMP.

Not to mention, most of the brand-spanking new features found in Photoshop are things only super photo-editing geeks and digital artists will ever really need to use or care about, and even they will never use all the tricks available. You can easily get by on a version of Photoshop from a number of years ago, so not having the latest and newest will really not cause you any harm, as the basic, core features are likely all you'll ever find yourself utilizing (meaning: just because the GIMP is behind the curve, it doesn't matter one bit for your, or most people's, purposes).

What you specifically need an image editing software for is this: you need to be able to change the color spec of the document, you need to be able to resize it, you might need to be able to cut it and you might need to save it in a different format. Last I checked, GIMP can't handle CMYK color files; a stupid limitation, but if it's still in place, the program simply isn't suitable for print-ready layout work in color.

It is theoretically possible that your artist will bring you image files that never necessitate any of these simple procedures: if he knows the file format, image size, color spec and other qualities you need, then in theory nothing would prevent him from sending the files to you ready to use. In that case you would not need an image editor, as you could just put whatever you get directly into your layout.

Photoshop is great.  I hear good things about Gimp.  Keep in mind that if your system software is fine with it, you should be able to find an older copy of PS on ebay with valid serial codes much below retail pricing.  Until Apple mandates i migrate to the newest version of Adobe software, i plan on sticking with the CS3 era products.

Eero wrote: Last I checked, GIMP can't handle CMYK color files; a stupid limitation, but if it's still in place, the program simply isn't suitable for print-ready layout work in color.

I decided to go with GIMP, since I am already familiar with it from my old job.

Greyorm: I just downloaded the most recent version, do I need to do anything else in order to get the plug in for the color issue?

You'll need to download and install it. Link provided for the former, check the directions in GIMP for the latter. (Honestly, though, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use CMYK, so I don't know if you'll ever actually need to use it unless your printer specifically requests it or an artist sends you a CMYK file.)

greyorm wrote:
You'll need to download and install it. Link provided for the former, check the directions in GIMP for the latter. (Honestly, though, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use CMYK, so I don't know if you'll ever actually need to use it unless your printer specifically requests it or an artist sends you a CMYK file.)

>>If you plan on making best quality printed stuff you have to be able to work in CMYK.<<

It should also be noted that TVs and most printed only show you RGB. And yes, there are usually subtle differences between the RGB and converted CMYK outputs for the sale file. That said, unless you have an art monitor that is showing you the CMYK, then its still probably best if you work in RGB anyways and simply let the printer convert as is necessary for them. All modern digital printers will do that conversion automatically without the operator needing to do a thing.

If exact color tone is highly important to you however, its best you start by getting a graphical monitor that can display in CMYK.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Retail Group - http://www.gobretail.com
Guild of Blades Publishing Group - http://www.guildofblades.com
1483 Online - http://www.1483online.com

Carnifex wrote: I bet you don't know the difference between RGB and CMYK.

If you plan on making best quality printed stuff you have to be able to work in CMYK. Haven't used GIMP but I doubt I'd be satisfied with it with the high demands for speed and quality that I have.

Carnifex, you have stepped over the bounds of courtesy here at the Forge. When someone says something you disagree with, it is all right to say so. However, it is not all right to turn disagreements into a status game about superior knowledge.

There is no need to respond to this post or to react to Raven's response (which was courteous). Continue the converation with my moderation in mind, is all.

Best, Ron

Ron wrote:
Carnifex, you have stepped over the bounds of courtesy here at the Forge. When someone says something you disagree with, it is all right to say so. However, it is not all right to turn disagreements into a status game about superior knowledge.

There is no need to respond to this post or to react to Raven's response (which was courteous). Continue the converation with my moderation in mind, is all.

Best, Ron

Ok. Now I have tried out GIMP trying to find out the differences between Photoshop and GIMP. This post is a mix of my opinions and what I think is fact :)

GIMP
GIMP is a nice program. It's free and has alot of nice tools for working with images. Most of those tools work as in Photoshop. I recommend it if you don't have the money to spend on Photoshop. GIMP is easy to use - easier than Photoshop. Some major drawbacks include good support for CMYK and the advanced user will miss many many tools from Photoshop.
PRO: Free and easy to use
CON: Not made for printing

Photoshop
Photoshop is the choice of the professional graphic designer. With it you can prepare images for printing. There are loads of very powerful tools to quickly work with all kinds of images. It's much quicker adjusting images than GIMP - so if you plan to work alot with high resolution images you'll save alot of time. For the professional user there are loads of nice functions not present in GIMP. If you need photoshop but don´t have the money you could try to buy an older version of the program (on Ebay etc).
PRO: Made for printing. Lots of nice tools. Fast and powerful.
CON: The high price. A bit complicated.

SUMMARY
Buy Photoshop if you have the money and need to work professionally with images. Use GIMP if you don't have the money or don't work alot with images. The programs are quite similar when it comes to general colour adjustments and simple photo manipulation. The main advantage of Photoshop is the many advanced and powerful tools and when you work with preparing images for printing.

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RGB vs CMYK
First I will say that i will not try to explain the quite complicated matters of RGB vs CMYK.
1. You cannot print in RGB directly - this is an absolute fact. Most print shops (99%?) work in CMYK to print colour images - CMYK. (If you have a printer at home they might use more than 4 colours to create better, richer colours.)
2. While you certainly could work in RGB the result on paper will be different. As RGB can represent more colours than CMYK (but not all) most CMYK colours can be watched on a computer screen.
A Quite Nice Summary From Wikipedia:
"While processing a digital image, the most convenient color model used is the RGB model. Printing the image requires transforming the image from the original RGB color space to the printer's CMYK color space. During this process, the colors from the RGB which are out of gamut must be somehow converted to approximate values within the CMYK space gamut. Simply trimming only the colors which are out of gamut to the closest colors in the destination space would burn the image. There are several algorithms approximating this transformation, but none of them can be truly perfect, since those colors are simply out of the target device's capabilities. This is why identifying the colors in an image which are out of gamut in the target color space as soon as possible during processing is critical for the quality of the final product."

Here's some info from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMYK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut

/Claes

(Note: I don't know everything but I have worked a long time in the graphic business - 3 years in a print shop doing prepress work, 7 years as a graphic designer and art director, and the last 2 years I have worked as a teacher in Photoshop and InDesign etc.)

Thanks for the advice guys. My only color image is the cover art and logo. Everything else will be black and white. What should I do to ensure best results on the cover image if I only have GIMP and INdesign? (we will be using Lightning Source for most of our printing if that makes a difference). I don't know what the colors will be, but believe it is going to be an orange/red theme.,

Use file->place to place the images into InDesign. As long as the graphics files aren't screwy in some way, that should work fine.

yrs--
--Ben

Seamus wrote: Thanks for the advice guys. My only color image is the cover art and logo. Everything else will be black and white. What should I do to ensure best results on the cover image if I only have GIMP and INdesign? (we will be using Lightning Source for most of our printing if that makes a difference). I don't know what the colors will be, but believe it is going to be an orange/red theme.