Topic: Friends in high places
Started by: Mytholder
Started on: 7/25/2002
Board: Adept Press
On 7/25/2002 at 12:05am, Mytholder wrote:
Friends in high places
I'm sitting here watching a chat over at enworld with Peter Adkinson, and the question comes up "who would Peter like to game with?". After the usual answer (Tweet, Greg Stafford, Tracy Hickman), Peter says
"I just got done studying Sorcerer by Ron Edwards, so I'd love to try a game with him some day."
On 7/25/2002 at 12:13am, Clinton R. Nixon wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Dude, don't tell Ron that stuff. Peter Adkinson said he just got through "studying" Sorcerer? That's going to appeal to Professor Edwards a bit too much, methinks. Watch for exploding head-fragments.
- Clinton, who is being saucy, but not serious
On 7/25/2002 at 12:57am, jburneko wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
But, "studying" is such an appropriate word for Sorcerer. I've read the core book like 3 times. I've read Sorcerer & Sword at least twice and I've read Sorcerer's Soul a good 4 or 5 times. This is a game you NEED to study to properly wrap your head around. And it's worth it too.
Jesse
On 7/25/2002 at 2:08am, Paul Czege wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
"I just got done studying Sorcerer by Ron Edwards, so I'd love to try a game with him some day."
Now how's that timing and choice of words for a whoops betrayal that you're one of the "closed, anonymous committee" members who'll be selecting the Diana Jones Award winner in just a couple of weeks?
Paul
On 7/25/2002 at 2:21am, Christopher Kubasik wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Good work there Paul.
On 7/25/2002 at 7:38pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Clinton R Nixon wrote: Dude, don't tell Ron that stuff. Peter Adkinson said he just got through "studying" Sorcerer? That's going to appeal to Professor Edwards a bit too much, methinks. Watch for exploding head-fragments.
Yep, I thought it was bad enough when Adkison bought Woody out of copies of Sorcerer at Origins (stating that he was going to give them to all his friends, too). Must be nice when the owner of GenCon is buying up your stock. :-)
Think he'll come by and join in a demo?
Mike
On 7/25/2002 at 7:51pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
C'mon guys,
It was only a couple of copies of Sorcerer at Origins. (I had it wrong when I thought it was more, by the way.)
A man can like a game without it being a federal case, right?
Granted - I definitely appreciate Peter's custom, interest, and willingness to cite me and the game.
Best,
Ron
On 7/26/2002 at 11:39pm, PeterAdkison wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
*Studying* is indeed the appropriate term.
I had a couple of friends come over and generate characters. I hadn't felt this intimidated in a long time!
My friend CJ created a boxer, still in his prime but recently defeated by a boxer who he thinks was a passer demon and he's trying to figure out who the sorcerer is. His own demon is a passer doberman pincer. The demon's need is to have aggressive stare downs with people to see who backs down first (will checks I'm guessing).
Steve Conard (yes, the same Steve Conard who designed the Legends MTG set) created an archeologist character with an inconspicuous shadow demon. His demon's need is to merge with other peoples' shadows.
So any good games of Sorcerer going on at Gen Con I could get into? Probably the only times I could play would be *late* night on Thu after the block party or Fri after the ENnies.
I played Diana in the demo game and really enjoyed playing her. The game got a little X-rated at one point--she turned out to be quite the slut...
On 7/27/2002 at 3:52am, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Hi there,
The last time I played the demo, John Clements ogled the picture of Sharon Stone on Diana's sheet for a minute, and his first stated action in the game session was, "I just, you know, feel my breasts for a while."
A-hem!! What was I posting about?
Welcome to the Forge, Peter! Great to have you here.
I've got a couple of Sorcerer demos in the works for GenCon, in addition to the reunion one that everyone is beginning to know and love. That one, by the way, has been extensively revised in terms of helpful text. I'll be looking to play the game a lot, so either Thursday or Friday will be slated. So yup, Sorcerer play, for sure.
Peter, at Origins, we all played like madmen. There's a thread in the Actual Play forum you'll like, as it communicates the enthusiasm and punk creativity that continually escalated through the con for everyone. I anticipate even more of that at GenCon - more games, more folks, more money flowin' in, and more time.
Best,
Ron
On 7/27/2002 at 4:57am, Uncle Dark wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Hi, Peter. Welcome to the Forge.
About those demons you mentioned... Is there something more sinister to the shadow demon's merging with a shadow? It seems like an extremely easy to meet need otherwise, and might be a problem for the sorcerer later down the line. Consider, if the demon rebels (with many successes) it could completely escape its summoner, meeting its need whenever it likes.
Which, of course, might make great stuff in a story...
Lon
On 7/27/2002 at 11:03pm, PeterAdkison wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Ron Edwards writes:
The last time I played the demo, John Clements ogled the picture of Sharon Stone on Diana's sheet for a minute, and his first stated action in the game session was, "I just, you know, feel my breasts for a while."
Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm embarassed to admit this, but in the last few years I learned enough about fashion (thanks to some shallow "friends") and hollywood that I was able to play her a little *too* well. My description of what she was wearing the party could have been quoted right from cosmo.
Welcome to the Forge, Peter! Great to have you here.
Thanks! This looks like a fun hangout. I suspect I'll be a semi-regular lurker-light. There are times when work is so busy that I don't get past email for weeks at a time, and then I surface up and go skim my favorite boards to see if some thread or another catches my eye. If there's ever anything here you'd like me to see in particular, feel free to point it out directly.
I've got a couple of Sorcerer demos in the works for GenCon, in addition to the reunion one that everyone is beginning to know and love. That one, by the way, has been extensively revised in terms of helpful text. I'll be looking to play the game a lot, so either Thursday or Friday will be slated. So yup, Sorcerer play, for sure.
Cool. Well, I went through the demo game with Jot, although we incorrectly climaxed with the battle scene, as you know. I loved the scenario, although I prefer to not play it again. Any chance of a post-reunion scenario?
This isn't very serindipitus (ugh, is that a word?) but if I'm going to get into a game it would be best to plan ahead. My schedule at Gen Con is really really tight. Could we plan for a session now? While it would be extra cool to play with you as the author, I'm happy to play in any game run by an experienced sorcererer. I need some more play experience before trying to organize a session.
On 7/27/2002 at 11:17pm, PeterAdkison wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Uncle Dark wrote: Hi, Peter. Welcome to the Forge.
About those demons you mentioned... Is there something more sinister to the shadow demon's merging with a shadow? It seems like an extremely easy to meet need otherwise, and might be a problem for the sorcerer later down the line. Consider, if the demon rebels (with many successes) it could completely escape its summoner, meeting its need whenever it likes.
Which, of course, might make great stuff in a story...
Lon
Thanks for the warm welcome! You know, this site looks like something I would have really loved back in 1990-1991 while I was stumbling around trying to figure out how to get involved in this industry. But back in those days it was mainly hangin' out in rec.games.frp (or was it rec.games.rpg? sheesh, it's been awhile...).
Anyway, I'm glad you asked this question, 'cause I was feeling like I was on a bit of shaky footing, and ended up feeling comfortable with the demon's need only because I didn't take time to try and look up something in the rules for clarification. Being lazy, I still haven't looked, so I'll just ask y'all. :-)
Does an inconspicuous demon have to stay near the sorcerer that bound it? I assumed not. Since this demon looks like a shadow, it seems that the need won't be *that* easy to meet. I'm thinking that be inconspicuous the demon most of the time stays in the shadowy area under the sorcerer, where you can't see it, like under the sorcerer's feet, or under his butt when he's sitting, whatever. But to go into someone else's shadow one of two things has to happen:
(1) The sorcerer has to get into the other person's shadow. Possibly not that difficult, but still requires getting pretty close to someone, perhaps into their personal space. While in that person's shadow the demon's in that shadow too.
(2) The demon has to run accross some lighted area and risk getting spotted.
I guess perhaps option 1 is pretty easy to do, just go to a crowded place where shadows merge all over the place, like an amusement park or something.
I'm open to suggestions.
I had the demon's desire to be knowledge and was thinking that the demon could learn something about someone when it got into their shadow, but maybe it would cause the person to feel a tug on their soul or something, sorta like a telltale.
So what happens when a demon rebels? Is it still bound to the original sorcerer? I thought a demon needed to be bound to a sorcerer to get its need met.
On 7/27/2002 at 11:40pm, Uncle Dark wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Peter,
How the demon moves is defined by the player when the character is generated, just like everything else about the demon. The demon need not be in the same place as the sorcerer.
Rebellion need not break the binding, depending on how the binding has been played. In fact, if it successfully rebels, it may still be technically bound, and can remain so forever, even after the binding sorcerer dies. Given this demon's need, that means it could concievably run away and never come back, though if the sorcerer ever catches up to it it will probably be in trouble.
Look up the stuff on demonic rebellion on page 95.
Lon
On 7/28/2002 at 12:06am, Clinton R. Nixon wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Peter,
Just to let you know, I'm going to be running Sorcerer at Dragonflight in Seattle this year. I don't know if you get around to the Seattle conventions as much, but if you get too busy at GenCon to play much, I'd be glad to run Sorcerer with you at Dragonflight, or outside of Dragonflight, for that matter.
On 7/28/2002 at 5:25pm, PeterAdkison wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Uncle Dark writes:
Rebellion need not break the binding, depending on how the binding has been played. In fact, if it successfully rebels, it may still be technically bound, and can remain so forever, even after the binding sorcerer dies. Given this demon's need, that means it could concievably run away and never come back, though if the sorcerer ever catches up to it it will probably be in trouble.
So the lesson here is that for demons like passer demons or inconspicuous demons that can move around on their own give them needs that only the sorcerer they're bound to can fill? So the need of the other character's doberman pincer seems equally flawed.
On 7/28/2002 at 7:12pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Hi there,
(elbows Lon in the ribs) 'Scuse me.
Peter, the essence of Binding is the responsibility that the sorcerer incurs toward the demon. Sure, a Passing demon might have "listen to golden oldies" as its Need, but that doesn't mean the sorcerer can give it a few bucks and the address of the used record store. No, by definition, the sorcerer must take personal and effort-oriented responsibility to get the demon those golden oldies (with high fidelity, without interfering responsibilities during "listening time, with whatever else).
As a general guideline for play, the more stress and agony the sorcerer is undergoing due to external problems (i.e. a Kicker), the less trimmings the demon will expect. However, say the sorcerer has a nice friendly relaxing life going on - the demon will start to escalate the circumstances and hassles of getting that Need filled.
Players used to older traditions of strategic play will think in the terms you're describing - "If I get my demon an easy Need, I'm cool!" - but think more in terms of (a) the demon as a character in (b) a story in which the plot is created via characters' decisions. There is literally no way to minimax Sorcerer.
Best,
Ron
On 7/28/2002 at 9:22pm, PeterAdkison wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Okay, thanks all, I think I got it.
I'll post some revisions to the needs, plus my thoughts on what demons and humanity are for my Sorcerer campaign when I get around to it and see whacha think. When I restart the threat that way I assume the Actual Play forum is the best place to post?
Peter
On 7/29/2002 at 2:14am, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Hi Peter,
Here or Actual Play, whichever you'd like. More focus here, more people there. When a game has its own forum, then which forum to post on regarding playing it is a toss-up.
Best,
Ron
On 7/29/2002 at 7:51am, Uncle Dark wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Oh. Hi, Ron (rubs side). Sorry if I got in your way, I thought that was for general comment...
Hurm. Mayhap I am thinking too much in terms of the games I've run, where it's been a nescesary plot point that there are a few demons hanging around who've outlived/escaped their sorcerers. As in, a passer who had been bound to "watch over my daughter," but who outlived the sorcerer who bound him. He still fulfills the binding, but is essentially independant, capable of fulfilling his need on his own. He has to, since he found it advantageous to keep the daughters in the dark about sorcery and his true nature. His story (his part of the r-map) was about keeping secrets from the ones closest to you.
Is this far enough to be (gasps in horror) "unofficial" Sorcerer?
In fun,
Lon
On 7/29/2002 at 2:18pm, Jürgen Mayer wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
PeterAdkison wrote: Since this demon looks like a shadow, it seems that the need won't be *that* easy to meet. I'm thinking that be inconspicuous the demon most of the time stays in the shadowy area under the sorcerer, where you can't see it, like under the sorcerer's feet, or under his butt when he's sitting, whatever. But to go into someone else's shadow one of two things has to happen:
(1) The sorcerer has to get into the other person's shadow. Possibly not that difficult, but still requires getting pretty close to someone, perhaps into their personal space. While in that person's shadow the demon's in that shadow too.
(2) The demon has to run accross some lighted area and risk getting spotted.
I guess perhaps option 1 is pretty easy to do, just go to a crowded place where shadows merge all over the place, like an amusement park or something.
I'm open to suggestions.
I had the demon's desire to be knowledge and was thinking that the demon could learn something about someone when it got into their shadow, but maybe it would cause the person to feel a tug on their soul or something, sorta like a telltale.
I really like the idea of the shadow demon who merges with other peoples shadow to find out about their desires, knowledges and thoughts.
To make Steve's life a little harder, I would suggest that the demon can only merge into another individual's shadow if the sorcerer's shadow is in contact with it (like your option 1) - but that it only can suck information from the victim's soul as long as the sorcerer (or the sorcerer's shadow?) actually stays in contact with the victim's shadow. (Which won't be that easy when the victim feels the "tug on their soul.")
If the contact between sorcerer and victim is broken, the demon cannot suck any more information and must return to the sorcerer's shadow before attempting it all over again (and returning could be risky - see your option 2).
In addition, I would play the demon in a way that it demands to merge with specific, more interesting, dangerous and/or hard-to-reach persons over time. It might not be such a big problem if he demands to merge with that police officer's shadow, but next time he will possibly want to merge with the police chief's shadow, or with a celebrity's or politician's shadow - that should be tough.
(Another idea: what if the demon follows traces of thoughts that he found while merged with the shadow of a victim? For example, while in the shadow of the police officer he learns that he still yearns for his greatest love, his first gf in high-school, Eleonore Davis - and now he wants into her shadow!)
BTW, I want into that Sorcerer game, too - I haven't had the chance to play it yet (*sniff*). Maybe your schedule isn't that packed the days before GenCon? AFAIK at least Ron and I will be in town from tuesday, and maybe we could have a game night before the con starts?
(Oh, and Peter, please greet Steve Conard from me - I spent a really nice afternoon back in the mid-90s with him, where we pitted our fun decks against each other at the Essen game show. I hope he remembers me - I sent him a custom "Isnogud" card afterwards and had some emails with him. Or bring him along to GenCon, he's a great guy.)
On 7/29/2002 at 8:38pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Friends in high places
Hi there,
Warning, heavy moderation follows. (H'm, immoderate moderation?)
This thread has ceased being interesting or focused, so it's now closed.
If anyone wants to coordinate with Peter regarding GenCon, private-message or email him, please.
Let's take specific comments, questions, and whatnot about Sorcerer itself to threads dedicated to those things.
Best,
Ron