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Topic: Seeking help with GMless games
Started by: Ghilemear
Started on: 7/5/2010
Board: First Thoughts


On 7/5/2010 at 10:16pm, Ghilemear wrote:
Seeking help with GMless games

Namely, I cannot fathom how that would work outside a board game.  Can someone help me out here?  Where could I find some good examples of GMless mechanics?  Thanks in advance!

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On 7/5/2010 at 11:04pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
Re: Seeking help with GMless games

Ghilemear wrote:
Namely, I cannot fathom how that would work outside a board game.  Can someone help me out here?  Where could I find some good examples of GMless mechanics?  Thanks in advance!


First, it helps if you start calling them "GM-full" games, and not "GM-less". It's more appropriate to the kind of play, where the functions of a GM are not missing, but are shared between all the players. So, "GM-full", because if you consider "being the GM" as a sort of different category, different from "simple players", then they are played ONLY by GMs. Everyone at the table is a GM.

The second step is taking that idea of the GM as a sort of "god of the game", and not a player, and kill it dead.

"The GM doesn't exist". There is no such thing as "the role of the GM" as a thing outside of the rule of a specific game, and different games give different responsibilities and rules to follow to the players, GMs included. What EXIST is a list of responsibilities that SOMEONE has to take during a game (playing a certain NPC, for example), that are completely independent from each other and can be fulfilled by different persons without any problem

If you want to read more about this, I suggest reading these two threads:
Silent Railroading and the Intersection of Scenario Prep & Player Authorship
You've Landed on Gaming Group "Park Place", Pay $15 Rent
But I suggest you read them only AFTER reading (and, more important, playing) some GM-full games.

There are many kinds of GM-Full games. Many have a sort of "rotating GM", for example, in POLARIS, when you play your protagonist the player seated in front of you play your opposition (enemies, demons, etc.) while  the other players play other kind of NPC, depending of the seating position. (so you will play the enemies of HIS character..).  Other give the players a choice, for example in ANNALISE you choose the player who will be the story-guide for you in a scene (and this work very well when you have players good at guiding different kind of scenes). In others when it's your turn YOU play the GM and frame the scene (as in 1001 NIGHTS, for example).  In other games there is no GM even for a single scene, the authorities are always shared (as in SPIONE). Other games have a even stranger role division (in DIRTY SECRETS, for example, there a single "investigator" and all tbe other players take turns in playing the opposition).

It's not even a clear-cut "traditional games" / "GM-full games" division. A lot of games with a single GM don't give that single GM all the "Almighty authority" that rule zero give to "traditional GMs" . The GM is a player, as all the others, simply with different authorities and responsibilities. And they are not always the dame (see for example the game THE POOL where when a player win a roll he can add a "monologue of victory" where he assume some of the GM authority...)

P.S.: Maybe this was a "Actual play" thread... are you asking in reference to some idea about a game you are creating, or as a curious player?

Forge Reference Links:
Topic 20791
Topic 22268

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On 7/6/2010 at 3:09am, Trevis Martin wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

Universalis - One of the earlier games to really do full on GM less play.  More Generic, no particular setting or story.
The Shab-al-Hiri Roach - Darkly humorous horror game set in an early 20th century American university.
Fiasco Your own Coen Brothers movie as a GMless game.
Polaris: Chivalric Tragedy in the Utmost North - Fantasy game, again pretty dark, but very cool.
Dirty Secrets - Noir detective game.  Not quite GMless instead the GM duties rotates through all the players except the Investigator.
Capes - Supers game
Contenders - Think the movie Cinderella Man.  Boxers just trying to make it.

And I know there are others.  Hope that's helpful.

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On 7/6/2010 at 4:35am, Noon wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

I think what would help is to first realise RPG's with GM's are boardgames - they aren't some mystically different breed of activity. RPG's are boardgames - I know it loses all the mystique of roleplay to say it. Once you grasp that, it's easier to see how you can design things without a centralised GM.

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On 7/6/2010 at 5:06pm, Necromantis wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

Do any of the games you guys mentioned have the group play a single character. (particularly a single character that everyone in the group would control only part of - mind - body - concience etc etc)  I am having trouble finding one that does?  Not even sure how to search for one that does.
Looking for something to read up on for a game idea I had.

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On 7/6/2010 at 5:37pm, Paul Czege wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

Hey man,

Necromantis wrote:
Do any of the games you guys mentioned have the group play a single character. (particularly a single character that everyone in the group would control only part of - mind - body - concience etc etc)  I am having trouble finding one that does?  Not even sure how to search for one that does.
Looking for something to read up on for a game idea I had.


Folks sometimes call them "Herman's Head" RPGs. I've never played one. Here's some:

Guy Shalev's <a href="http://craniumrats.pbworks.com/f/Cranium+Rats+Beta+3.0.pdf">Cranium Rats

Jason Blair's <a href="http://www.hekeba.com/games/insectsofgod.pdf">Insects of God

MachMoth's <a href="http://machmoth.tripod.com/rpg/shattered_spirits_beta01.pdf">Shattered Spirits

Michael B. Sullivan's <a href="http://wso.williams.edu/~msulliva/campaigns/john/">Everyone Is John

Years ago there was another one that was about the seven deadly sins, but I can't remember the title.

Paul

p.s. Ron's game <a href="http://spione.adept-press.com/">Spione and Vincent Baker's game <a href="http://www.lumpley.com/games/match.html">Matchmaker also deserve a look.

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On 7/6/2010 at 9:37pm, Trevis Martin wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

This is a game with a GM that I ran into a while back, but the characters do, at least for a good chunk of the time, share the same body.  Maybe it will give you something to work with.

It's available for free.

Khaotic

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On 7/7/2010 at 1:46am, Ghilemear wrote:
RE: Re: Seeking help with GMless games

@Moreno and Trevis:  Thank you!  I am designing a game and I was thinking of making it "GMfull" as I had heard of it, and I'm having trouble engineering the GM's duties.  I thought I'd look into GMfull games to get some insights into how to proceed.  Thank you very much!

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