(This is a post about eXpendable design: a dark sci-fi action game about criminals drafted into the galactic army as fodder. It is a Sorcerer-style game mechanically, with dice pools built around attributes and a best-die-wins mechanic.)

I still haven't been able to get this thing playtested, mainly because it still isn't ready for primetime. Case in point: while giving the big "fleshing out" to the Movement and Range rules for combat the other night, I realized that while they worked in my head, when I tried to implement them, they were broken for groups of larger than two foes.

In eXpendable, everyone has a Movement attribute that is used for changing Range and for Hunting/Chasing (and of course, for running away and escaping, etc). There are three loose Ranges in combats: Close (melee distances), Ranged (projectile weapon distances), and Hunted (in sight, out-of-range). What those actually are in distances can vary easily depending on environment, obstacles, and so forth. As it stands, a character takes an action to make a Movement check to change range by one "step" (Close to Ranged to Hunted), and if successful moves one "step" forward or back.

That's where the problem comes in: a character could be at different ranges to different characters/foes (or vice versa), and that's more book-keeping than I like for this system (which, though tactical, is supposed to be more stylized and cinematic than a true war-game inspired system).

I was originally looking at Agon and 3:16 for inspiration on how to handle the issue, then tonight I realized that rather than worry about exacting ranges for everyone, only worry about 1) already established ranges, except when circumstances dictate they might have changed, 2) the ranges that matter right then and there. That if a Range comes up as an issue -- "How far away am I from..?" and there is some disagreement on the matter between the players, or the GM and player(s) -- then they simply have their characters make opposed Movement checks with the winner deciding the range they're at.

I'm pretty much posting this as a look-see-how-I-worked-through-this. Though if anyone sees any issues with this method I might be missing, fire away.

Is your system essentially gridless?

You are correct: there is no grid or battlemat or minis involved. This is old skool "it's in your head and in the numbers" kind-of play married to indie Narrativist theater. So when I say a character has a Movement attribute, similarly to how "Range" is a loose narrative concept, it isn't a measure of how far they can move in a turn or a number of squares/meters/distance they can cover in X amount of time or similar.

Gridless movement is a pain in the ass to design elegantly, but the payoff is that you don't encounter the logical limitations of the grid.  Diagonal movement on a square grid is longer than straight movement (you need to know the pythagorean theorem in order to calculate it accurately); movement on a hex map works fine in 6 directions, but the other two directions cause you to end up between hexes. 

In my opinion, gridless is a good way to go for the type of design you're going for.  However, I cannot provide insight to your problem yet.  Could you present a combat example so that I may visualize the mechanics and get an idea?

I think if you've made a mechanical distinction on where a token is placed, you've drawn a grid line whether you like it or not.

Ar: How familiar are you with the Sorcerer RPG system? (I ask because unless you have some familiarity, any example I write up is going to be completely Greek.)

Callan: you've drawn a "line", of sorts, yes, in terms of where things might or kind-of relate to each other in the imagined fiction, whether or not that's a "grid" line of some sort is highly debatable.

No, sorry.  I have a severe allergy to narrativist systems.  I read "tactical" in your post and decided to continue reading.

Greek as in the game vernacular is complex?  Go for it; I love to see the inner workings of a system.

greyorm wrote: Callan: you've drawn a "line", of sorts, yes, in terms of where things might or kind-of relate to each other in the imagined fiction, whether or not that's a "grid" line of some sort is highly debatable.

Close (melee distances), Ranged (projectile weapon distances), and Hunted

As it stands, a character takes an action to make a Movement check to change range by one "step" (Close to Ranged to Hunted), and if successful moves one "step" forward or back.

Callan: then it's only a grid in some kind of non-Euclidian universe, at which point the term "grid" is meaningless to mere mortals. And I suspect the game, unlike ORX, is more the latter type of what-the-fiction-does than the former, so this may not be your thing (but this isn't the thread to discuss that in).

Ar: Alright, but I can't guarantee this will make sense without a grounding in the mechanics. The really, really quick base-system, as mentioned above: it's a die-pool, highest-die-wins system.

Let's say Grav and Ketch (PCs) are brawling with a group of space pirates (5) in a cargo hold on a large freighter. There's a clear area towards the center of the hold, otherwise surrounded by piles of boxes, crates, and large shipping containers, a number of which are stacked in neat towers and rows towards the edges. Everyone is currently towards the clear area around the center.

Grav is out of ammo, but still has his combat knife. Ketch is carrying a fancy futuristic rifle with a few rounds yet. The pirates all have hand weapons, knives or heavy tools mostly, and at least one has a sidearm. Let's say Grav has a Movement of 2 and Ketch has a 4, and the pirates all have a 3. To make it simple, we'll say Stamina and everything else is at 2 or 3, and I also won't use the other rules that mitigate damage or provide bonus rolls (Fallout, Equipment, stat rolls) for this example.

Round 1: Because neither group noticed the other before this (determined somehow earlier in the fiction), this is a surprise meeting, so the GM decides the PCs and the NPCs start at Ranged from each other, and no one disagrees. Grav wants to charge the pirates and get Close, surprising them, Ketch wants to stay at Ranged and instead climb up some boxes to get some cover and a height advantage. Most of the pirates want to get to Close with them, another wants to shoot Ketch, and another wants to get to Hunted range in the opposite direction (maybe to get help). So Ketch's player says to wait, he wants to shoot at the running guy instead. Everyone's agreed about what they're doing in the round so everyone rolls:

Grav rolls 9,9 to close with P1.
Ketch rolls 12,11,2 to shoot the runner.
P1 rolls 5,4,2 to close with Grav.
P2 rolls 6,3,1 to close with Grav.
P3 rolls 10,7,5 to close with Ketch.
P4 rolls 12,11,1 to move to Hunted...maybe running to get help.
P5 rolls 5,2,1 to shoot Ketch.

Ketch gets his shot off first, so P4 aborts his action to defend (rolling 8,7) but takes a bullet for 4 Shock and 2 Injuries (6 total penalties) and goes down. He's out for the next round, until the Shock wears off. No one is trying to stop P3, so his action succeeds automatically. He rushes around Grav's charge to Close with Ketch on this side of the hold, knife drawn. Grav charges to Close with the other pirates on the other side of the hold (P1 and P2's Move actions never happen as they're already at Close with Grav). P5 shoots at Ketch, who defends (rolling 12,9); Ketch ducks right after his own shot and the pirate's bullet cracks a crate behind him.

Round 2: Ketch's player curses about being stuck at Close with this pirate (his rifle has a 2-die penalty to attacks made at Close) and wants to move to Ranged, so off somewhere into the crate stacks. P3 wants to stab Ketch, gutting the intruder before he can run off.

Ketch rolls to Move: 10,7,3,1
P3 rolls to attack: 10,4,3

Ketch, having just ducked, dives away and sprints off just as the pirate slashes at him, missing. Ketch is now back at Ranged.

(Grav is busy fighting with three pirates. The one who shot at Ketch has dropped his sidearm and grabbed a gravity crowbar. I'm just going to ignore all that for now because no one is changing Range, just leaping around swinging at each other.)

Round 3: The pirate wants to charge after Ketch. Ketch wants to swing around and shoot the pirate, bang pow, right in the forehead. The GM rules Ketch can use his one success from last round as a bonus roll-over die. (Also, P4 recovers from the Shock and spends a couple rounds bandaging himself up.)

Ketch rolls: 12,10,8,3
P3 rolls: 10,4,3

(Seriously, Ketch is getting some freaking lucky rolls here.) Ketch spins and takes the shot -- the pirate aborts his action to defend (12,10) -- and BAM! 4 Shock and 2 Injuries. The pirate goes down and is out. Ketch finishes him off while he's down (this is an action, takes a round), then checks to see how Grav is doing. (Despite putting one pirate down, Grav is getting his ass kicked.)

Round 5: Ketch's player says "Am I at Ranged for those guys, or do I need to move closer?" The GM says, "Well, you dashed off towards the crate piles, but you didn't go far, did you? OK, so maybe you're where you can still see them. I'll say probably." "Crap. Wait," says Ketch's player, "what about the guy who was running for the alarm, can I still see him, is he in range?" "Let's roll for that."

Ketch makes a Movement roll (this one is not an action): 12,9,7,7
And the GM makes an opposed roll for 1 (P4's Movement of 3 dice minus 2 dice from Injuries): 12

The DM gripes about Ketch's player rolling so well and informs him P4 is still pretty much where Ketch shot him, bleeding all over but ready to crawl off.

Ketch wants to shoot at P4. P4 wants to crawl away, moving to Hunted range. (Grav's player argues he needs more help; Ketch's player ignores him, thinking the runner is the bigger threat.)

Ketch rolls: 4,3,1
P4 rolls: 10

P4 manages to stagger to his feet and then into the stacks, Ketch fires a moment too late, his bullet slamming into the corner of a crate and ricocheting off. Ketch swears. Meanwhile, Grav is screaming for Ketch to help him, and tries to move to Ranged, away from the pirates. The two remaining pirates just keep circling and swinging at him (P1 is dead).

Grav rolls 10 to move to Ranged (but only 1-die as he's taken an Injury).
P2 12,9,2 rolls to smack him with the crowbar.
P5 7,1,1 rolls to stab him with his knife.

Grav is hosed. He Sucks-it-Up -- doesn't abort his action -- and takes the hit from P2, rolling 1-die for defense instead of aborting to defend with 4 (so this is a stupid thing to do): 5. He takes 2 Shock and 2 Injuries as the pirate stabs him. He has (way) more penalties than his Movement now, so he can't take his Movement action. P5 swings the crowbar down on him, Grav rolls to defend, but can only roll 1-die (his penalties now equal his Stamina) and thus the pirate rolls an additional 1-die for his attack.

Grav: 6
P5: + 12

Grav takes 2 Shock and 2 more Injuries as the crowbar cracks his skull and he sees stars. He's out of the fight for the next round (Grav's Stamina is 5, he's carrying 7 penalties, once the Shock wears off, he'll be at 5 penalties from Injury and regain consciousness).

At his point, Ketch can take some shots at the pirates. The pirates could rush Ketch or try to find some cover then P5 could return fire. Either pirate could try to coup de grace Grav, or drag him off for questioning/torture/who knows. And with no one to stop him, P4 has moved beyond Hunted range, so there may be reinforcements coming (or he's just hiding and patching himself up, or sneaking around up to god-knows-what). Etc, etc.

So Ketch hides and radios back to the rest of the squad, "We are so fucked, guys. Cargo hold three. Now. NOW!"

greyorm wrote:
Callan: then it's only a grid in some kind of non-Euclidian universe, at which point the term "grid" is meaningless to mere mortals. And I suspect the game, unlike ORX, is more the latter type of what-the-fiction-does than the former, so this may not be your thing (but this isn't the thread to discuss that in).

Greyorm,
After seeing your example, I think your placement and movement idea works well.  Confirming actual spatial relationship might be a pain, although I can only conjecture without seeing the playtest results.  Also, do you have rules for flanking or outnumbering opponents?

Off Topic: In round 1, it seems like everyone is stuck in time molasses while Ketch does all the acting.  What are your rules for combat actions?

Ar wrote: After seeing your example, I think your placement and movement idea works well.  Confirming actual spatial relationship might be a pain, although I can only conjecture without seeing the playtest results.  Also, do you have rules for flanking or outnumbering opponents?

Off Topic: In round 1, it seems like everyone is stuck in time molasses while Ketch does all the acting.  What are your rules for combat actions?

This is why there are rules in the text for other players to help/hinder/hurt the acting player's character a bit, so even players whose characters are "out" of the current action can throw themselves into it.

The slavish devotion to rounds as a ticking clock on the wall, measuring out precise moments of synchronicity, is something I want to avoid. Follow the action. Jump around. Keep it interesting.