So, for my game, Shadows, which is a fantasy game that draws its inspiration from, among other things Ninja Scroll, Star Wars, Willow, Watership Down, His Dark Materials, Aesop's Fables, Winnie the Pooh, Frankenstein, the tales of Washington Irving and early American (revolutionary) history.

You can look at an early version of the game here

The question came up about the number and type of attributes used to define characters, so I want to list them out here, with a brief explanation of what they do and why they were included, and see if anyone can give me any input on where to trim the fat, if necessary.

Characteristics: These are the backbone of the system, there  are 10 of them and they describe certain values or virtues that the character (Persona) possesses. They can reverse into certain negative Characteristics. Having them Reverse is a major part of the game, as becoming corrupt is the most closest thing to character death that exists in the game.

Knacks: These are adjective that describe qualities possessed by the character that pertain more towards what the character is able to do than what he believes. Players get very few of these and they are meant to be something that a) makes the outcome of the character's actions more inline with the character's concept and b) to give the player something to hang descriptions on. A for instance, a character with the Dangerous Knack is better at hurting people, and will do better in the game when doing so, and can describe his characters menacing glower or his willingness to hurt people.

Philosophies: Special knacks that allow the character to access Frankenstein science or light magic.

Challenges: Negative traits that describe the characters weaknesses and that give the GM (Director) fuel for using the system against the characters.

Lights: The game is highly focused on a rebellion that's going on, the characters have four different "Lights" that represent their standing in the rebellion and how harshly they rub against society.

Legend: A trait that measure how magical the character's existence is. Legend changes the shape of the game over time, so that play begins focusing on normal day to day activities (for the heroic members of a rebellion in a fantasy world) and escalates to mythic almost dream like fantasy as time progresses.

Signature Items: For the most part what gear a character possesses is unlimited, in the case of certain iconic items though, this is not the case. Players cannot possess certain listed items unless they select them at character creation or gain them later in play.

Statistics: These are basically the re-naming of the Characteristics to make it clearer how they plug into the game's resolution mechanic. Their values are always identical with the numeric value of the related Characteristic, which is normally instead listed as a descriptive term.

Hi, Nolan.

I think you need exactly as many types of attributes as the game requires. I didn't answer you, I know. I assume you're asking, "Is this too many?" and not "Is this not enough?" because there are a lot. But they seem colorful and interesting and seem to suit a purpose in your design (which you did not link, by the way). Design is about editing--in the grander sense, not the grammar sense. You are picking elements that harmonize together. Like a chef, you want to mix ingredients carefully so that they work together, and not have superfluous side dishes that don't contribute to the meal.

Here's how I think about it. Each type of attribute is an interface to something. Look at the <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/27/">Big Model, particularly Exploration, for insight. Some attributes are interfaces to Character; for example, Characteristics. Some tie to Setting; for example, your Philosophies tie to setting elements of magic. Some tie to Situation: Knacks and especially Challenges are tools for generating interesting problems. All are expressed by System but Statistics seem to be almost a pure expression of it. Things like Signature Items express Color, but they're not "just" color.

All of these things are Currency and express character Positioning or Effectiveness. Currency is the exchange rate of the points in your system. I assume there's some relationships among the various traits and how they're used, and relationships to dice and whatever reward system you have in mind. That's the central nervous system of your design. The traits are the player's inputs and outputs: the eyes and ears, and hands and feet and sexual organs of the game.

Tell us a little more about how your game uses those things. Especially Statistics, which do seem superfluous to me, at first blush.

Yeah, statistics are just a renaming of each of the Characteristics, with their value listed as numbers instead of descriptive words (which the values of the Characteristics are listed as), named in such a way that is made clear how the numbers plug into the die mechanic. So like Honor, which determines your ability to defend yourself, goes into the Defense statistic, so that people don't have to pause and go "which one's defense again" and so that I can have descriptive levels listed on the character sheet without making players do the mental acrobatics of converting the level name into the level number and back again.

and I know its kind of a silly question, but a poster at another forum looked at the rules I have and that was his only comment. Do you need all those attributes? It did make me do a lot of thinking, and I do want to consolidate/stream line the selection and division as much as possible. Two problems, there's a Light called Purity and a Characteristic called Innocence, and those seems to over lap, the second is the Faith Characteristic, which seems representative of the fiction, but requires the invention of an in setting religion.

As long as these things have a functional purpose in your design, keep them. If they don't, axe them. Sometimes the purpose is "just" letting the player know that something is important to play.

you need to consider 9 attributes IMHO

- social strength
- social agility
- social endurance

- mental strength
- mental agility
- mental endurance

- physical strength
- physical agility
- physical endurance

I would never suggest that you need to incorporate all 9 but i believe that your system should be able to explain them.  Many can be combined.  Obviously these can be renamed to anything you like but I can't think of other things to include except for a stat for attractiveness or luck which could be made into stats. 

Try to choose stats that are all equal in use and purpose and choosing wisely can help keep your game on course.

In general I prefer fewer attributes, unless there is a clear reason why you need more.

Locke wrote:
you need to consider 9 attributes IMHO

- social strength
- social agility
- social endurance

- mental strength
- mental agility
- mental endurance

- physical strength
- physical agility
- physical endurance

I would never suggest that you need to incorporate all 9 but i believe that your system should be able to explain them.  Many can be combined.  Obviously these can be renamed to anything you like but I can't think of other things to include except for a stat for attractiveness or luck which could be made into stats. 

Try to choose stats that are all equal in use and purpose and choosing wisely can help keep your game on course.