This is a light game I made with the primary intention of having a story-driven rules-light game with characters that felt different and were easy to make.

PRIORITIES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are not in any real order but I numbered them just because.

1. The rules should not hinder fun
2. The rules should be easy for non-roleplayers to use
3. The rules should focus on characters and character development, not physics
4. The rules should make different characters actually feel different
5. Characters should be created during play -- details are mostly irrelevant to the game

CREATING CHARACTERS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creating a character is very simple – all you really have to do is answer three multiple-choice questions:

1. How does my character solve his or her problems?

a. Forcefully; my character prefers to smash his problems
b. Carefully; my character prefers to control his problems
c. Quickly; my character prefers to forget his problems

2. How does my character get out of trouble?

a. Avoidance; my character doesn’t get into trouble
b. Endurance; my character takes trouble like a man
c. Luck; my character should have died a long time ago

3. How does my character contribute to the team?

a. Creativity; my character can figure anything out
b. Experience; my character can keep you alive and sane
c. Skill; my character can make your plans a reality

Otherwise, most of character creation is already done for you; you have 3 hit points, a defense of 5, and you deal 1 damage to the GM’s hit points on a successful hit.

Now let’s take a look at the different options and what they do for you:

OFFENSIVE ROLE ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does my character solve his or her problems?

FORCEFULLY
You beat your opponents to a bloody pulp. You tend to be brash and prideful, and you prefer action to words.
Benefit: When you roll a natural 5 or 6, you deal +1 damage. This means a natural roll of 5 deals 2 points of damage if you hit, and a natural roll of 6 deals 3 damage.

Associated Vice: Wrath

CAREFULLY
You examine your opposition so you can dominate them. You tend to be quiet, manipulative and observant.
Benefit: You add +2 to your attack rolls.

Associated Vice: Greed

QUICKLY
You rush your foes and overwhelm them. You tend to be sharp, overbearing, and intense, but also lazy.
Benefit: You get one extra attack per turn. This extra attack does not deal a critical hit on a natural roll of 6. This extra attack ignores the counterattack rule when you roll a natural 1. You may resolve this extra attack before or after your standard attack. Both attacks must have the same target.

Associated Vice: Sloth

DEFENSIVE ROLE ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does my character get out of trouble?

AVOIDANCE
You avoid complications in life, so you might be docile or prudent. In combat you gracefully dodge your foes’ attacks.
Benefit: You have a Defense of 6 against Forceful and Quick opponents. If your opponent is Careful, your Defense is 7 instead of 6. You do not take extra damage from a critical hit.

Associated Virtue: Temperance

ENDURANCE
You can take punishment, both physical and mental. You know yourself very well and have a very stable personality.
Benefit: You have 6 Hit Points instead of 3.

Associated Virtue: Chastity

LUCK
You live a charmed life and you often get by on pure audacity. Things tend to work themselves out around you.
Benefit: Every time you are attacked, roll 1d6. On a result of 4 or higher, the attack deals no damage. However, if your opponent scored a critical hit, the attack deals 1 damage instead of no damage. You take no damage when you roll a natural 1 on your attack rolls.
Associated Virtue: Patience

TEAM ROLE -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does my character contribute to the team?

CREATIVITY
Your intuition is your greatest strength, and you often have the best idea of what to do next.
Benefit: Once per game session, you may ask the GM a single yes or no question and roll a d6. If the result is 4 or higher, he must answer the question to the best of his ability, with either a “yes,” “no,” or “I don’t know.”

Associated Virtue: Diligence
Associated Vice: Envy

EXPERIENCE
You’ve been around the block at least once, and you can help others learn from your mistakes.
Benefit: Once per game session, whenever you or another character is about to gain a Vice point, you can step in and roll a 1d6. On a result of 4 or higher, you instantly negate it by giving that character a Virtue point. You can do this even if the character in question has already gained a Virtue point once in this game session.

Associated Virtue: Humility or Kindness
Associated Vice: Lust

SKILL
You have access to money, connections, tools, or a vast intellect. Whatever it is, you exist to get things done.
Benefit: Once per game session, when the GM has announced a minor encounter, you and any of your team-mates may automatically win the encounter.

Associated Virtue: Charity
Associated Vice: Pride or Gluttony

FINISHING TOUCHES -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your roles have associated virtues and vices. Pick any one virtue and any one vice from the combined lists of all three roles, and give yourself one virtue point (the GM might tell you to start with 0 or 2, depending on how idealistic the game setting is). Re-name and re-flavor all of your roles to fit the game’s setting and your character’s concept. You can stick close to the suggestions or you can be as creative with them as you’d like; the only things that can’t change are the benefits. After you’ve done all that… you’ve finished making your character! No need for background or minutiae; these characters are lean and mean. Here’s an example of a finished character:

BATMAN

CRAZY PREPARED                                                                                                                                                          Offensive Role
Batman has mastered everything from jujitsu to organic chemistry, and he really doesn’t like surprises.
Careful: You add +2 to your attack rolls.

GRIM                                                                                                                                                                                Defensive Role
Batman fears nothing and is willing to take anything life dishes out at him. He’s dark, brooding, and tough as nails.
Endurance: You have 6 Hit Points instead of 3.

UTILITY BELT                                                                                                                                                                          Team Role
Batman is secretly Bruce Wayne, a multi-billionare. He has a limitless variety of gadgetry on his person at all times.
Skill: Once per game session, when the GM has announced a minor encounter, you and any of your team-mates may automatically win the encounter.


I HAVE ONE RULE                                                          Virtue
Batman has a strict moral code and he doesn’t allow himself any free time. Notably, he utterly refuses to kill.
Chastity Points: 1

VENGEANCE                                                                        Vice
Batman holds himself responsible for his parents’ death and feels he’s the only person who can do his job.
Pride Points: 0

COMBAT ENCOUNTERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Combat is divided into exchanges which are further divided into turns. The heroes take turns starting from the player closest to the GM’s left and it goes around the dice-rolling table clockwise. The GM gets a turn after every hero. In general, the dice results tell you what happens and you narrate what it means after you roll. There is no range or modifiers for what weapons you use or anything like that; what the numbers mean is up to you. It kind of goes like this:

The exchange begins

Hero 1 rolls 1d6 and compares the result to the GM’s defense – this is called an attack
If Hero 1 fails to meet the GM’s defense, his attack does nothing.
If he rolls a natural 1, he takes 1 damage as his attack left him wide open to counterattack
If Hero 1 meets or exceeds the GM’s defense, he deals 1 point of damage to the GM’s HP
If he rolls a natural 6, he deals an additional 1 damage as he scored a critical hit

GM rolls 1d6 and compares the result to Hero 1’s defense
The GM resolves the attack using the same steps detailed above

If the GM has zero hit points left, the combat encounter is over
If Hero 1 has zero hit points left, he may no longer have exchanges in this encounter
If neither Hero 1 or the GM are at zero HP, nothing happens in the Resolution turn

The second exchange begins, this time between Hero 2 and the GM

Note that the GM and the Heroes’ roles change these rules around a little bit; for example, a careful hero rolls 1d6 +2 instead of 1d6 when he attacks. The GM only ever has Offensive and Defensive roles, and he decides which ones every time a new combat encounter begins. The combat encounter represents a nebulous threat; it can be a single tough bad guy, 3 bad guys, or an undetermined number of mooks. A combat encounter typically is built the same way a character is, only the GM’s hit points equal 3 X the number of heroes (6 X the number of heroes if the GM gives it Endurance). The GM can increase HP beyond this value if he wants the combat challenge to be extra tough or subtract HP if he wants it to be especially easy.

If all the Heroes are taken out of the fight, the GM gets to decide if they are captured or killed… or worse?

SOCIAL ENCOUNTERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Social encounters work differently. The GM determines the stakes and the heroes try to convince the NPC to their side.

If a hero is confident in his ability to persuade the GM with fantastic role-playing, he can simply say what his character is saying and hope the GM thinks it’s enough to change the NPC’s mind. The GM of course is role-playing too. This should be organic, like improvised acting.

If a hero is not confident in his ability to persuade the GM with fantastic role-playing, he may instead roll 1d6. If he rolls a six, the stakes are won. A hero may only try the dice once – after that, he’s got to either let the others take care of it, give up, or try doing it the hard way like everybody else.

The GM can tell the heroes after a certain point that this guy is not going to budge.

MINOR ENCOUNTERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minor encounters are trivial challenges that nevertheless have a penalty for failure, such as leaping across a gorge or disarming a bomb. To overcome a minor encounter, a hero must roll 1d6. If he rolls a 4 or higher, the minor encounter is overcome for that hero (the others usually need to try, too). On a roll of 3 or lower, the hero suffers the consequences of failure. If at all applicable, the result of the die roll informs you of how extreme the in-game result is.

VICES & VIRTUES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vices and virtues serve a guideline for role-playing your character’s morality. The GM awards virtue points for exceptional role-playing, creativity, and whenever a hero drops out of combat – but never more than once per game session. You can voluntarily take a vice point once per game session to automatically deal 5 damage in combat during anyone’s turn or to instantly win a social encounter. If your vice points outweigh your virtue points, your character should be portrayed more neurotically. When your character dies or otherwise leaves the story, it’s a heroic death if your virtue points are higher, and a tragic one if your vice points are. You can never lose virtue or vice points.

WHAT DO I WANT FROM YOU? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to see what can be improved, taking my priorities into consideration.

You have 27 different characters in this game. There's probably not TOO many sessions before people start to work out how those different combos work, and gravitate towards certain combos. Potentially because they expect others to choose certain traits.

It's interesting, though the social rules and the vice/virtue rules seem to be pretty loose when compared to the combat rules.

The combination system is meticulously designed to avoid exploitation. You can find the math for that here. If your saying some people will subjectively enjoy some combinations more than others... I don't anticipate that will be a serious issue.

The social rules are very very loose, yes. I considered having them follow the same concept of the combat rules and letting your character apply their abilities or what have you but I felt that took way too much out of the roleplaying part of this roleplaying game.

I've read the thread already, yes. My point wasn't that people will have actual advantage, simply that they may seek to a) gain advantage that does not exist or b) attempt to utilize some faux advantage as a psychological ploy.

I'm not making a negative comment, it's just an observation.

As for the laxness of the social system, it's fine, simply "at odds" with the combat being structured. The issue extends to a lesser extent to the minor encounters (essentially anything that would be a skill check in a system with more rules) since they're pretty much a cointoss.

I may take a stab at this tomorrow just for fun depending on what else I am working on. (I've been doing nothing but startup stuff for days now and would maybe enjoy doing some, you know, design. :) )

b) attempt to utilize some faux advantage as a psychological ploy.

I'm not making a negative comment, it's just an observation.

As for the laxness of the social system, it's fine, simply "at odds" with the combat being structured. The issue extends to a lesser extent to the minor encounters (essentially anything that would be a skill check in a system with more rules) since they're pretty much a cointoss.

I may take a stab at this tomorrow just for fun depending on what else I am working on. (I've been doing nothing but startup stuff for days now and would maybe enjoy doing some, you know, design. :)

Ever see that simpsons episode where the devil tries to torture homer by making him eat an endless line of donuts? Well, of course it doesn't work on homer. But it's idea that even if something is good, if it goes on and on it becomes less good. How does your game end? "When people feel like it" means by default that'll happen after it gets into 'less good' territory - not exactly ending with a bang. Just some thoughts.

Hi,

Just to say, titling a thread "I dare you to do it better" is kinda combatative and not necessarily helpful for getting better responses.

That aside, since you did title your thread that way, you may want to look at some other rules-light games for different, at least, ways of doing things if you really want to compare.  The Pool, 1001 Nights, Primetime Adventures, Vs. Monsters, The 2 Page Action Movie Game, are some possibilities just to name a few.

Combat, the dependable mechanic

One thing I do notice about the rules you have is that for "story-driven", they pretty much favor combat as the means of resolution.  Which isn't to say you can't have story-driven combat heavy games, it's just I'm not seeing what makes this game particular story-driven, here.

You might see players avoiding minor encounters altogether (at least in the examples, things that mean sure death and 50/50 odds aren't particularly enticing). 

As far as social encounters, it generally favors players who are socially forceful or good at working the GM - and the folks who aren't there, are likely to push for the highest stakes possible when taking a Vice Point ("I'm going to convince the Evil Lord to turn good!", etc.) - which might lead to problems in the negotiation phase as to what can and can't be at stake.

Vice & Virtue

Although Vice & Virtue seem like they might have potential for driving a story, the problem is there's nothing to really encourage player buy-in to their characters as you play.

Virtue has no specific goals or directions, so it's not like a player goes, "Oh, this is a game about Honor! I'm down with that!" and gets invested in their character playing up a theme.  The idea of investing into a theme is effectively what makes White Wolf splats work in their games.  Many other games also front load a theme as a group choice (Sorcerer's Humanity) or as an individual choice (Riddle of Steel, Burning Wheel, Shadow of Yesterday, Drifter's Escape, etc.).

Since there's no pacing mechanic for a deadline, it's not like there's a clock or pressure to get Virtue above Vice at any specific moment.  Compare this to, say, My Life with Master where there's a definite end-game condition that triggers your character's end story, and it becomes a big deal trying to get your scores to where you want them before that happens.

The other thing is that it looks like your game is designed for long term play at least as far as Vice & Virtue goes.  It's generally been seen that games that have "story driving" mechanics usually do better when there is a short term cycle of reward (or forcing story driving decisions) in the mix - definitely shorter than session-to-session.  Without strong enough rewards in immediate play doses, players and groups generally fall into whatever habits they're used to.

Chris

Thankyou thankyou thankyou, these are exactly the kind of comments I was hoping for.

How does your game end? "When people feel like it" means by default that'll happen after it gets into 'less good' territory - not exactly ending with a bang. Just some thoughts.

Just to say, titling a thread "I dare you to do it better" is kinda combatative and not necessarily helpful for getting better responses.

That aside, since you did title your thread that way, you may want to look at some other rules-light games for different, at least, ways of doing things if you really want to compare.  The Pool, 1001 Nights, Primetime Adventures, Vs. Monsters, The 2 Page Action Movie Game, are some possibilities just to name a few.

One thing I do notice about the rules you have is that for "story-driven", they pretty much favor combat as the means of resolution.  Which isn't to say you can't have story-driven combat heavy games, it's just I'm not seeing what makes this game particular story-driven, here.

You might see players avoiding minor encounters altogether (at least in the examples, things that mean sure death and 50/50 odds aren't particularly enticing).

As far as social encounters, it generally favors players who are socially forceful or good at working the GM - and the folks who aren't there, are likely to push for the highest stakes possible when taking a Vice Point ("I'm going to convince the Evil Lord to turn good!", etc.) - which might lead to problems in the negotiation phase as to what can and can't be at stake.

Although Vice & Virtue seem like they might have potential for driving a story, the problem is there's nothing to really encourage player buy-in to their characters as you play.

Virtue has no specific goals or directions, so it's not like a player goes, "Oh, this is a game about Honor! I'm down with that!" and gets invested in their character playing up a theme.  The idea of investing into a theme is effectively what makes White Wolf splats work in their games.  Many other games also front load a theme as a group choice (Sorcerer's Humanity) or as an individual choice (Riddle of Steel, Burning Wheel, Shadow of Yesterday, Drifter's Escape, etc.).

Since there's no pacing mechanic for a deadline, it's not like there's a clock or pressure to get Virtue above Vice at any specific moment.  Compare this to, say, My Life with Master where there's a definite end-game condition that triggers your character's end story, and it becomes a big deal trying to get your scores to where you want them before that happens.

The other thing is that it looks like your game is designed for long term play at least as far as Vice & Virtue goes.  It's generally been seen that games that have "story driving" mechanics usually do better when there is a short term cycle of reward (or forcing story driving decisions) in the mix - definitely shorter than session-to-session.  Without strong enough rewards in immediate play doses, players and groups generally fall into whatever habits they're used to.

Personally I like everything about your thread. The title immediately grabbed my attention (as intended) I read the whole thing and wasn't confused or had to reread things because everything was written well and explained with as much brevity as possible. I like your game idea as well for what it is, that is to say for your goals, as I prefer more rules in a game that I would personally play. None the less I think you have some good ideas, and it even made me want to play a session or two. Even though I do think the things you intend to change will help dramatically.
More than liking the post though.
Chris --
that is the most helpful critique I think I have ever seen here. and Callan also had a great question.
I guess when you have a rules light game its a lot easier to help someone out.
But even so .. Stellar job Chris.

I have a couple of questions.
is this game intended to be modular? or do you have a setting in mind?
is there a way (aside from gaining virtue and vice points) to improve your character?

I like the Idea of a hero's journey. Becoming a hero would be the goal of the game. maybe each character would have a specific reason for needing to become one. (your batman example --- to avenge his dead parents by ridding gotham city of the corruption that lead to their deaths)
this will give players a concrete reason to roleplay -- a goal to strive for. you could call them -- Goals.

Thats all the time I have right now. Back to the grind. Lunch breaks are so short.

(unfortunately - no time to proofread -  ignore typos - thanks)

Brent

Necromantis wrote:
Personally I like everything about your thread. The title immediately grabbed my attention (as intended) I read the whole thing and wasn't confused or had to reread things because everything was written well and explained with as much brevity as possible. I like your game idea as well for what it is, that is to say for your goals, as I prefer more rules in a game that I would personally play. None the less I think you have some good ideas, and it even made me want to play a session or two. Even though I do think the things you intend to change will help dramatically.

Necromantis wrote:
is this game intended to be modular? or do you have a setting in mind?

Necromantis wrote:
is there a way (aside from gaining virtue and vice points) to improve your character?

Necromantis wrote:
I like the Idea of a hero's journey. Becoming a hero would be the goal of the game. maybe each character would have a specific reason for needing to become one. (your batman example --- to avenge his dead parents by ridding gotham city of the corruption that lead to their deaths)
this will give players a concrete reason to roleplay -- a goal to strive for. you could call them -- Goals.

Here's a question (it might have to wait until play testing to answer, though): Is Forceful less "fun" than the other options? In both Careful and Quick you have a larger opportunity to hit your opponent; forceful means you have a 1/3 or even 1/6 chance of hitting (and a 1/3 chance of getting countered). If you miss 5 out of 6 times, that CAN'T be very fun. The game has no tactical options, though so it's not like you're spoiling a plan, but I wonder if I shouldn't do a bit of an overhaul in my combat design. (the only important part is that the characters have to feel different I have no particular obligation to use d&d-like resolution).

Perhaps there should be some kind of scale of effect? Maybe I could make it so that you always "hit" but the effects are more diverse, and each type of character has a different probability of generating a given effect. Randomness could determine the severity of the effect.

Anything with a low chance of success tends to streak and stand out accordingly.

In a d20 game you will find that some players go nuts with crits, others get none, and most get a few.

A Forceful character from your game could be immensely effective in some fights. (To the tune of overshadowing others.) They could also be miserable and contribute nothing.

If you're going to use this mechanic I'd suggest making their wild yet powerful attempts at hitting people be cinematic. (Watchmen, punching a huge chunk out of a wall.)