Hi I am kind of new, well I was here years, and years ago, and am working on turning our house game system into a full RPG.  I would like to know if there is anyone that could take a look at what we have cobbled together to see if there is any further suggestions for the system.  The system is set up to be able to run any genre of game that you would like, and the book includes weapons, equipment, and occ's/backgrounds, for every thing from fantasy games to apocalyptic settings. 

I know you will need more info, but I am not sure what all to put on here...  Thanks for the time...

Chris

Here is the system so far.  It makes sense to us, but then again we put it together... what I am asking is... does it work? and does it make sense?  Of course, sometimes I can see it can be taken as a little unwieldy.  Remember we are cobbling this together from pages in a binder scratched on by several different people adding their own spin on what was already there. 

Thanks for any help you guys can give.

Resolutions

Unopposed skill resolutions are rather simple.  Your skill level reflects how proficient you are in a given skill. Since this game runs on probability, you need to convert it to a percentage.  To do that, take the skill level times ten.  That will give you a base skill percentage.  Once you have your base skill percentage, you now add more to it. 

Modifiers
As you can see, circumstances and tools can modify the result of your roll.  They always add or subtract from rolls.  Some rolls will have both positive and negative modifiers.  Each roll has up to 2 modifiers, for instance attacking someone has your skill modifier, and the range modifier from the weapon. 

Each skill has a modifier, which when added to your base skill percentage will give you the base probability.  To get your target number, you must subtract your difficulty number from the base probability.  The equation looks like this:  Skill x 10 +/– Modifier – DN= TN.  To give an example, Tom’s computer use skill is 2 and his intellect modifier is +10.  Tom’s base probability is figured this way: 2 x 10 + 10= 30.  His difficulty number for the task is 15, so subtracting that from his base probability he has a 15% chance of succeeding.  To succeed in the skill roll, and combat as well, you must roll under the target number on percentile dice (2d10).

Difficulty numbers
Difficulty   DN
Easy           15
Normal   30
Hard           45
Difficult   60
Impossible    75

Most skill rolls are unopposed; meaning that they do not have an enemy or NPC making them more difficult.  For instance, Tom is trying to pick a lock.  The difficulty is set by the GM based on the stresses of the situation and the hard nature of the lock. 

The difficulty numbers allow for the inclusion of environmental variables such as the difficulty of the task and outside interference.  Therefore, if Tom were working on trying to break an encryption on a computer with normal security, it would be an easy DN.  However, if he would attempt to crack something harder, the DN would go up.  The increase there would represent the higher levels of security.

Easy
These are task that unskilled PC’s can accomplish half the time, without outside interference. 
Normal
These tasks are complex; you would need to be trained in the relevant skill to accomplish them, for instance setting broken bones.
Hard
These tasks require considerable skill to complete effectively.  While it is possible to set a bone without having adequate medical skill, the more complex tasks require a more working knowledge of the skill in question.
Difficult
Some tasks are just so far outside the range of unskilled or even nominally skilled characters.  These skills draw off higher skills to attain success.
Impossible

Sometimes there are things characters need to do that takes everything working right in order to succeed.  These represent the peak of human performance.  This covers any task that the GM reasons the characters cannot do, however thinks that would be interesting or game enhancing.  If it is out of character for the PC to do, by GM’s reckoning, then it is just plain impossible.

Opposed Skill Rolls
There are times in which your skill roll will come in direct conflict with another character.  For example, you are trying to bluff your way into the backstage area at a concert.  Your social skills, amongst others, will come up against NPCs more than a few times. 

Opposed skill rolls are straightforward.  The target difficulty to defeat an enemy equals the amount of success.  In opposed skill rolls, the “aggressive” character is the person taking the action on his or her own turn.  The defending character reacts to the action.  The aggressive participant makes the skill roll first and wins ties.

For example, let us say you are bluffing a security guard with fake credentials.  First, you roll your bluff.  For the example you character has a formulated target number of 40.  If you roll a 17, you have buffed him. How he can try to see through the bluff and deny you entrance. 

You succeeded by 23 percent. His difficulty for resisting the bluff is a base 15; adding your success amount of 23, his difficulty number becomes 38.  Even if his target number is 65, he only has a 27% chance of defeating your bluff.  If he only rolls a 27, he loses the resist and you have successfully bluffed him. 

Initiative
At the beginning of each engagement, all of the characters involved in the combat roll initiative.  During the length of the engagement, all characters take their actions in order of their initiative roll.  If, for any reason, a character disengages from combat and then reengages, they must re-roll their initiative. 

Your character has a reaction modifier.  For example, you have a modifier of two (2).  You add a D10 roll to your reaction to decide who has the initiative.  The one with the higher score goes first.  Initiative is rolled for every round.

Combat
Once initiative is decided then combat round can begin.  Just like skill resolution, every level of your skill equals a 10% chance to hit your opponent.  Add or subtract the appropriate modifier of the skill to the base percentage chance to hit, which is represented by your skill level x 10. 

The tricky part comes when you look at your chosen weapon.  You will see that there is a modifier based on range of the weapon.  Add or subtract this number from your combined skill percentage.  This is the number that you have to roll under in order to hit.  The only other change to this number is if and/or when the GM decides the difficulty to hit the opponent.

Defensive Actions
You can use your dodge skill to oppose any physical attack against you.  You simply follow the opposed skill rules for such.  You can also oppose attacks with your fight skill, blocking with your fists, feet, or a weapon, if it makes sense.  You will only get one defense per round, so choose wisely.  If you have a high enough skill you may even be able to block projectile weapons. 

Mark has a highly skilled Martial Artist, and his melee skill is 10.  With all his modifiers, his base target number is 125.  To block a projectile attack with a sword his difficulty is hard.  Tom succeeds 10 under his target, which makes Mark’s total difficulty a 70.  Mark still has a 55% chance to block, because his training has made it possible.

In case it comes up, bear in mind that without some kind of weapon, you cannot block bladed or projectile weapons with your bare hands without risking some kind of damage.  Usually 3 points per block, even if successful.  If you fail badly enough, you take full damage plus 3 and suffer limb damage.

Other defensive actions include social defenses and even sometimes torture and interrogation.  You can oppose torture with Survival or a base Stamina roll. 

The complexity of the resolution system is disproportionate to its granularity.  What I mean is that you've introduced unnecessary steps that don't actually improve the output of the resolution.  For example, in order to determine your base skill roll, you need to multiply your skill level by 10.  Wouldn't it make more sense to just represent skill as a percentage instead?  Likewise, wouldn't it make sense if an opposed skill check was just a competing percentage roll rather than figuring out the target number through several steps of arithmetic?

I'm certainly not against complexity within a given system, but complexity needs to have representation for it to be meaningful and add genuine value to gameplay.  If complexity exists for its own sake, then you're doing your players a great disservice.

Hi,

It's a 'GM determines the difficulty number' design. To me, they all seem entirely transparent to what the GM wants or does not want to happen. The only thing that happens is occasionally the dice gets in the way of what the GM wants to happen, and then the GM just narrates more events and calls for another roll, until it goes his way. Which is entirely within the ruleset to do (the players only complain when this goes against them - when the GM calls for more rolls in their favour, suddenly this problem becomes invisible).

I know a difficulty number system is used in tons of RPG's. But haven't you noticed that these systems have practically no influence on gameplay? As the GM either sets the difficulty to pass or fail as he wishes. Or if it goes not in the way he intends, another entirely valid way of using these systems as written, just calls for another roll, or talks down the result.

At best they are like the magicians hand that distracts you over here, while over there the coin is being manipulated precisely as the magician planed.

You don't find it to be that way?

@Ar Kayon; So would it be easier if I took a similar approach to skill levels as to Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?  Such as multiplying education x 10 to give the points that are to be distributed amongst the skills, leaving the need for multiplying base numbers out... giving the opportunity to also leave the DN numbers entirely.

The examples I gave you ("wouldn't it make sense if...") were intended to present contrast and perspective to your current design model; they weren't presented to tell you what you *should* do.  Besides, if I did tell you to what RPG to derive inspiration from for a percentile-based resolution system, I would say to be more like Fallout, not Call of Cthulu!

Well it was an idea I have been toying with for a while... because I was trying to come up with a simpler way to deal with skill points.  But the other people I am working on this with are kind of sold on this...  Its not complete yet, as most of the stuff is on crumpled pieces of paper stuffed in a notebook... lol.. but would you be interested in taking a look at what I got on the computer so far and tell me what you think about the functionality based on whats there?

Well it was an idea I have been toying with for a while... because I was trying to come up with a simpler way to deal with skill points.  But the other people I am working on this with are kind of sold on this... 

would you be interested in taking a look at what I got on the computer so far and tell me what you think about the functionality based on whats there?

Well as it sits I am working on the majority of it, the others have all had their own pieces over the years.. but I am the one putting it all together and making a coherent system out of it.  They sometimes give me a headache over some of the details they want to stick to... lol...  Anyway I sent it off, you should be getting it soon... let me know what you think...

Thanks so much..

Just to add onto what Callan said...

The big problem, imo, with the GM setting the target number is *not* that the GM is basically deciding whether you succeed or fail; problem is that many such systems with that approach tend to also tell us what kind of contextual fallout there is. You know, like when you roll a totally sweet, awesome, triple-damage crit and take out the goblin king, only to find out his Honor Guard was waiting in the next room? As far as you knew, this was the end of the dungeon, and hey, who cares about some mooks (even if they're elite mooks) once the Big Bad has gone down?

In my example here, the GM's basically saying, "Yeah, I don't care how well you rolled. You didn't fix the underlying problem (i.e. the immediate threat of goblin military might); that's my call." Giving the GM the ability to decide whether it is mathematically possible for you to succeed at ALL is adding insult to injury!

Anyway. My point is that if target numbers are assigned on an ad-hoc basis, they are missing out on some potential.
The mechanic of Moves in Apocalypse World is downright formulaic (literally), but it's a flexible formula that works: in any situation where you pick up the dice, roll 2d6. On a 10 or higher, only good things happen for you. On a 7-9, some good things and some bad things happen. On 6 or lower, only bad things happen. Rather than caring about how difficult the task is in abstract terms, the system says "Hey, do xyz to get +1's to your 2d6 roll."

You could do it and still be thinking mainly about the internal logic and probability of a task. But it can be a lot nicer for the players if the players have some means of affecting said probability. Take 10 and Take 20 are two little gems in D&D3 that do just this; less evenly applied are the -2 to +2 rule (the GM can apply a modifier within this range to any roll, on top of any other factors at work) and some skills' bonuses for synergy or for good equipment.
Let's generalize these things: have a guideline that says, "Are you trying hard to make the most of situational factors? The GM should make a judgment call and give you up to +2 on your roll for your efforts. Conversely, if you're lazy or slackin' or have gaping holes in your strategy, the GM should consider penalizing you with up to -2 on your roll."
Another guideline: something like, "Do you have at least 5 skill levels in another skill related to what you're trying to do right now? Take a +2 modifier to your roll; this mod stacks with Take 10/Take 20 and the -2/+2 mod."

We're still focusing on logic, the likelihood of success, etc., but without making it arbitrary. The GM still has some room for fiat, but now we're giving players specific, concrete goals that they can work on to maximize their chances of success. Whether you're really focused on probability and logic in your system, or you want a system to help tell heart-wrenching dramas, or whatever, it seems that a common thread in good, solid mechanics is finding ways to reduce the fiat, the hand-waving, the guesswork in the mechanics; combine a more moderate amount of fiat with a few really solid ground rules for guidance.

The mechanic of Moves in Apocalypse World is downright formulaic (literally), but it's a flexible formula that works: in any situation where you pick up the dice, roll 2d6. On a 10 or higher, only good things happen for you. On a 7-9, some good things and some bad things happen. On 6 or lower, only bad things happen.

oops... typo's... lol...  @Callan: I ment to say that it would "give the opportunity to also leave *out* the DN numbers entirely."  My bad.. :D

I might be a little lost though, when it comes to the die examples you guys showed...  No offense, but to me a system or mechanic just facilitates the GM to tell the story.  So in a sense, no matter what mechanic is used, if the GM (to use your example) wants there to be Honor Guard...  then there will be...  But that comes down to the fact that, imho, some GM's are going to do the things you were talking about out of spite... while other won't or have a reason other than what you said...  (as we all have had a bad GM here or there).

I just don't understand using die to tell the story.  At least that is the way I am reading it... I may be wrong, thats why I am asking...

If the dice aren't going to at least contribute something to the story - something that the players couldn't have come up with on their own - then why have them at all? It's this weird middle point of pretending that they mean something that seems strange. It's like you just have them in there because roleplaying games always have them, not because you're actually making informed decisions about each part of the game you're designing.

well apparently I misread and misspoke on my last post.  What I was reading was that the die were used to dictate story elements... such as if I roll bad, there is more to my story if I roll good, then this is where this section ends.  In my experience, GM's have a storyline in which they are placing the game they are running.  Some elements are fixed, as ways to get the players to the next "chapter" or for the players to find certain clues.  I understand that there are randomized events such as encounters and the like (as well as player driven interactions and storylines that  develop as people playing have their own goals for the characters and such).  And I was reading into the previous posts, that it was suggested using dice to negate the narrative aspect of storytelling.  That is why I was asking the question, to make sure I was reading it right or not. 

I have been gaming for 15 years, and play in groups who have been playing games almost as long as than I have been alive (I'm only 31.... lol), and I see dice and mechanics that use them as a means of conflict resolution.  Used to randomize skill and combat actions to logically account for variables present in the story (which is why I was looking at Difficulty numbers).  I like a percentile system because of the ease of understanding and because I feel that variables like ability, difficulty,
circumstances and unpredictability are easily wrapped into it.

I hope that I have expressed what was on my mind clearer, but if not I welcome any further exposition... I am currently running on only a couple of hours of sleep... lol.. kids, you got to love them but I can't wait till I can get a full nights sleep... lol..  so please if my grammar seems off it is due to this.. :D

Hi Chris,

Used to randomize skill and combat actions to logically account for variables present in the story

And I was reading into the previous posts, that it was suggested using dice to negate the narrative aspect of storytelling.

What Callan said.

What's your role in the activity of role-playing, when you're a player? I'm going to be a butt and ask, "Why not just tell stories together, cooperatively or otherwise? Why do you want or need a game system to help out with that?" If you got into this sort of storytelling activity because of an RPG, do you still want to use such a game to promote that kind of fun?

Sorry to spam, but I had one more thought: have you heard of/played the RPG Fiasco?

You can check it out at bullypulpitgames.com. It has a much higher quantity of "just narrating" style story-gaming, and the dice are there to frame what story elements are there to use, rather than to actually dictate what happens. Seriously - you will never roll a die in this game to determine what happens.

I see whats going on... I misread and in turn we keep missing each other...  I understand what your talking about, and in fact there is a game that I have had on the back burner that would work well under a narration driven type system.  To hopefully get things straight...  This time, I hope my lack of sleep isn't going to lead me astray again... lol  I am a traditionalist when it comes to rping... I started with games that had a balance between mechanics and role-playing.  That is what I am striving for, a traditional style game, that the system supports the narrative and helps resolve tasks.... 

Alright... I see that I am having problems expressing what I my intentions are due to lack of sleep.  Just a disclaimer that I am really appreciative of all the suggestions and have soo many ideas for further work.  I am good at abstract thought, but descriptive (non storytelling) dialogue is hard for me sometimes... lol... Maybe this will work...

The games that I love and play on a regular basis are things like 1st ed AD&D (mainly cause I have all the books and not the money to repurchase more), GDW's Dark Conspiracy (I like the Occupations breakdown for character creation), Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu (I am a horror junky and the system is easy to pick up and go), ODS's Battlelords (for when I just wanna kill things and die a lot... lol), Apophis Consortium's Obsidian (I like the concept of the setting), and when I feel like it Rifts.

There are tons of others, but I don't want to list them all.. I don't have time... Sorry if this sounds like I am stuck in the mud, I am not... I am just having a hard time describing  what my original intentions were... 

Please don't take this post wrong, I am tired, and I love hearing your ideas... that's why I keep coming here... lol...  :)

If you're hard up for game cash, you could always plunder some RPG PDF files from The Pirate Bay.  Personally, I like having a physical book in front of me, but at the very least, the PDF can let you know if the actual product is worth buying.

Yeah I am a fan of physical books too... I have a lot of "liberated" pdf's, but sometimes it is hard play games off the computer and it would cost a small mint to print them at Kinko's... lol...