This is a very specific question about a larger project;

I'm creating a superhero narrative RPG, and am currently going over the attribute spread.  In most games there is "Strength" as an attribute, or something like it, and "Stamina" or something like it (Constitution, Fortitude, ect.). 

Thinking about action-characters in most stories, there seems to be no examples I can think of where a physically strong character isn't also a tough character.  Physically it seems like people who are strong are also tough.  Because of this, I'm thinking of collapsing the two attributes into one.

If you were creating a character for an RPG, would that bug you?  Would feel that you would rather have the opportunity to create a character who has a potent score in one area while having a poor score in the other?

In terms of super-powers, various forms of invulnerability and super-strength would still be available to the characters separately, since I can see how that might matter to a character concept.

I would say that It really is up to how you want the game to be designed. What is a superhero to you.
If the game is well designed it shouldn't bother the players to not be able to have all the options.
There are many games that I have looked over or played that had very few attributes (like having only - Body, mind, and spirit for example)
and it didn't detract from the game.
If it helps I can think of reasons to have both and reasons to combine them.

While maybe a strong character is always tough.
what if a player wants to be super smart and physically weak? would they be forced to be fragile? because toughness can certainly be mental.
In this case -- you could substitute fortitude with will-power and get away with it. Will-power could possible cover other needs as well. such as restraint (maybe your char doesn't want to kill for example)
so while you combine Strength and constitution into one stat -- you inadvertently create another, unless you planned to have Will-power (or something like it) anyhow - in which case -- its a win.

As for combining the 2 (into one stat - say ... Fitness?)
it could simplify the rules and let the narrative flow easier -- by getting some of the mechanics out of the way - via condensing the stats and more than likely the rules thereby.
So its really just a matter of choice that falls on you as the designer.

I put a ton of work on my 1st (and current) design effort into my Core stats -- they are the heart of my system and nearly everything that evolves characters has some tie to those stats [sub](which i call - the core 11 -- Might - Prowess - Precision - Agility - Forbearance - Heartiness - Perception - Knowledge - Reasoning - Communication - Appeal)[/sub]

I hope this helps and Good luck.

-Brent

Take a look at my system (in sig).  I address this issue.  I have 16 skills under 4 attributes.

example:

Brawn (this is called a Heroic Trait, it provides a bonus to all under it)
- Athletics
- Combat
- ENDurance
- STRength

therefore a combat type would most likely have a high brawn which would in essence buff all the skills in its category.

My WIP, OneShot, is all about simplicity.  I distilled the concept of "attributes" to four -- Strength, Speed, Perception, and Aptitude.  I call for Strength rolls to resist damage and for endurance, as well as physical might.  When I got to thinking, it made a lot of sense to do it that way, since I liked the idea of having four stats; but more importantly, I came to the same conclusion that you did, that barring exceptional cases, generally a tough character is a strong one, and vice versa.

I tried to do the same thing with mental stats; instead of Perception and Aptitude, my original draft called for Perception and Will, and had intelligence folded into Perception.  I eventually came to the conclusion that the "absent-minded professor" is a trope for a reason -- people can be smart without being perceptive, and vice versa.  So I folded intelligence and will (a sort of mental defense/charisma hybrid) into a new stat, Aptitude.

Short story long, if you're trying to go rules-light on attributes, putting Strength and Endurance together makes sense, to me at least.

Necromantis wrote:
While maybe a strong character is always tough.
what if a player wants to be super smart and physically weak? would they be forced to be fragile?

Physically strong tends to lead to physically tough, but not always the reverse.  Wolverine for example, is pretty average in physical strength but could be hit by a bus and walk it off.

Perhaps toughness is a pre-requisite for strength or something of that ilk.

If I really cared about how it looks in comics, I wouldn't have a strength stat at all - the comic book writers don't exactly use a bunch of stats to play out how a battle would go. They probably regularly use some methodology, but it wouldn't be related to having stats (ala D&D tradition) at all. So I'd ditch both strength and toughness stats.

Jason wrote: Wolverine for example, is pretty average in physical strength but could be hit by a bus and walk it off.

BunniRabbi wrote:
In most games there is "Strength" as an attribute, or something like it, and "Stamina" or something like it (Constitution, Fortitude, ect.). 

Here's another interesting angle:

The Tri-Stat system, used in Big Eyes, Small Mouth 3rd Edition among others, used three stats (surprise!):  Body, Mind, and Soul.  Body and Mind are straightforward; Soul was sort of a combination wisdom/willpower/charisma thing. 

Health was derived from the sum of your Body and Soul scores; Energy (mana, stamina, whatever) derived from Mind + Soul.  The Soul stat was generally the least useful of the three, but made up for it by giving you more endurance by force of will.  It makes sense for settings where the "power of your heart" counts, but not for anything terribly realistic.

I'm not terribly thrilled with the idea of lumping speed and strength into Body, but it is what it is, and is functional in those games.  Since there's going to be a clear distinction between speed/agility and power/toughness, a Strength and a Speed stat make more sense.

hmmm, I have the free copy of the Tri-stat system, but I never really read through it.  Perhaps I'll try that.

The only real example I can think of where it would matter are on heroes like the flash, who apparently has unlimited stamina because he moves very fast all the time and never gets tired, but physically is kind of a pushover. For a super-hero game type though, I don't think it would subtract from the experience to combine the two.

For my own WIP, I collapse the concepts of Strength, Stamina, and Toughness into a single stat; but I provide a mechanism for splitting one or more of them out again if the concept requires them to operate at different levels.  For instance, Sunspot of the New Mutants is that rare example of a superhuman who has normal stamina and toughness, but extraordinarily high strength.  In my system, he would have an average score in Body, but would be given a separate rating in a specialized Strength attribute that substitutes for Body when dealing with moving weights around or breaking things.  Likewise, Wolverine would have an exceptional Body score, but would get a separate rating in Stamina (which would be used to represent his inhumanly high recuperative powers).  And a tank might have a normal Body score to represent his ordinary levels of strength and stamina, but with Toughness broken out as a separate trait and amped up. 

The Flash would be easily modeled with this system, in that the Body-like score is distinct from the super-speed power, and that power has no particular limitation for tiring.  Sunspot would work the same way, as the super-strength power is a bonus applied only when applicable.

Looking at the Tri-stat system, there's something I'm not getting.  You roll under your attribute for success, but more powerful character types are given a "larger" die (in that a d8 is "larger" than a d4).  Doesn't that make the more powerful character type more likely to fail?

I'm not exactly sure what they're getting at there.  My only exposure to Tri-Stat in practice was BESM 3rd, which used Stat + 2d6 roll >= Target Number.  By no means do I suggest you should definitely use Tri-Stat -- I'm mainly just getting at the fact that there's a precedent for blending Speed/Strength into one stat.

You may want to take a look at Truth and Justice for some ideas. Depending on how narrative you want the game to you may question how important hard Stats are. Maybe there is just a Super Stat and you have advantages or perks to make it go as it were. Like Beefy: You can use your super stat for Lifting punching etc. As mentioned by Callan maybe Tough is a requirement for this. There might also be the Super Punch perk for just hitting nasty ala Wolverine.