Hi all!  I was here a while ago with the World of Rathillien RPG, and the net result of the critique I received was the harsh truth; it's a mess.  The layout was too rough for me to reasonably expect anyone to get into the game.  Now, I finally have the time and stability to start working on it again, and so while I rewrite swathes of it (not enough yet that it's actually ready to be looked at again) I'd like to see if I can get some feedback on what order to approach concepts in the book.

This is supposed to eventually be published (possibly, if I do a good enough job, which isn't assured), as it's built around P. C. Hodgell's God Stalker Chronicles - a severely underrated fantasy series.  The author was one of my professors in college, which is what set me onto this path in the first place.  Hodgell's series is one in which myth and belief shape reality, confounding the dogged heroine, Jame, as she tries to stop a universe-devouring horror and survive nearly everyone else in the world trying to kill her.

Right now, the way I'm trying to lay things out is as follows:

Brief introduction and goal.

Definition of core mechanic (d6, bonus/penalty/doom dice).

Information on the setting, races and cultures.

Definition of attributes.

Attributes, Character Creation and Archetypes.

Skills.

Fate - the 'power-up' mechanic.

Combat mechanics, combat maneuvers, weapons and armor.

Fighting styles (build-your-own).

Magic.

Morale and situational modifiers.

Items, money, and quality.

Glossary.

Now, if I stick to that basic layout, does it look okay? 

I would move all setting material that isn't mechanics to its own section of the book; lots of layouts have setting stuff first, but that depends on how critically important it is to use this setting for play. If it's intimately bound up in the mechanics, then put it right after "intro & goal".

I'd also put "items, money, & quality" BEFORE combat and magic, since items and such tend to be the tools we use to interact with the mechanics, and combat and magic sub-systems tend to be the applications of the mechanics. Does that make sense?

Other than that, it looks fine. What can we help with, with actual development/elaboration of mechanics? Is that something you need?

Should the lore section be early or late?  That's one of the critical questions - I address the different cultures twice (lore chapter and character creation) and originally had it up front, but I need to cut the infodump on the reader.  I was up to 30,000 words in my original draft. 

You raise a great point about items, money and quality.  Editing original post to reflect that.

I'll ask for mechanics assistance when I've performed enough editing that I'm sure it won't make your eyes bleed.  If you'd like to see it as it stands now,  here's a link.  Again, there's a lot of editing to do, so only check that if you're really, really curious.

Hi Robert,

Have you checked in with playtesters about your game?  Looking at what people are misunderstanding the most will give you some good ideas about how things are written and need to be laid out.

Usually the chapter order only becomes really important if either:
a) You're introducing advanced mechanics when people need basics first
b) People are having a hard time navigating the rules for reference in the middle of play.

New playtesters can help with the first, and people who know the game and run it/play it would help the most with the second.

Chris

Err..

I'm going to disagree with Chris. (Sorry Chris)

Firstly, I would suggest that the layout of the game manual is something to consider last. It's like choosing the decor of a cruiseliner when you haven't yet worked out how your ship engines will work, or where you're going to put the cockpit of the vessel.

Once you are finished designing, building, and making sure the system works well, the last step is the game manual, and the order of the chapters becomes EXTREMELY important. That sort of discussion is better placed in the "Publishing" section, I would imagine. I'm not at that stage yet with my own game but I know not to take it lightly. Even a ship with the best-designed engine in the world will suffer on the market if the decor is ugly or the architecture confusing.

Dan

Sorry for the delayed response.  Internet's been spotty here and I've had a ton of work - some of which has been editing, which has gone decently. 

I've not yet had any playtesting done.  I've done some work to figure out probabilities and such, but most of my friends are still in college and busy with 1-3 groups already. 

Right now the game's looking a little better, but still not good enough.  I'm eager to put it forward and get critique but I want to make sure that I went over all the advice I received my first round here.

Another question.  Right now the problems are magic and traits.  I have what I think is quite the combat system, with a lot of options open, but magic is nebulously defined in the series (the main character sucks hard at performing it, resulting in catastrophic failure several times).  I'm not sure that the traditional fantasy 'combat mage' even has a place in the setting; the only time that we ever see anything of the sort, it's performed by a high priest and he's channeling the power of the temple he's inside. 

So, the question is, would it be a terrible thing to put it up piecemeal - to post up the rules on character creation, items, quality, combat and the like, but leave the sections on magic in combat and character traits out entirely for now?

Hi Talanic,

If you're starting playtesting, it's especially helpful to put up or make available in some fashion, whatever rules you have.  The players you're playing with will be able to help some in pointing out what's confusing or unclear and if you are looking for outside playtesting, it will be necessary as well.

Again though, this is highlighting the issue that you probably want to nail down the game much more before worrying about chapter order.

Chris