Ok, here is my question- Is Conscience always defined as do the right thing, or can it be modified based on characters?

I'm not positive, as I don't have the core book yet, but I would guess that the conscience varies from character to character depending on their moral standards. Basically, whatever they feel is right.

Conscience is as flexible as any of the others. Don't allow any player here to dictate to you what any single SA means.. Not even, really, Jake. Jake can explain what it was intended to be, but like all roleplaying games, these are subject to interpretation.

My interpretation? Conscience doesn't require any descriptors, but I allow my players to add a descriptor if they choose. I had originally a descriptor for Conscience on Tiberius "Right is determined by Law" then dropped it, because I liked the conflicts inherent in an undefined Conscience, when the right thing may not always be legal.

The nice thing about the open-endedness of Drives is that it can cover a lot of things. If you want to specialize your conscience, make it a Drive, instead. As in Drive: Ensure that right is maintained by Law.

Thaet leaves conscience to be there for all those random moments where the character's morals come into play. What's cool about that, is that you can define the cahracter's ideals as he goes, and they can change. If he declares that he is saving a dog because his conscience will not let him leave it to die, then that says somehting about the character on the spot. If the character passes up such an opportunity, that also says something about the character.

Mike

Hmm, I dunno - that right is lawful does look like a conscience thing to me; this would suggest the character who is doing the "right" thing but which happens to be illegal, and THAT conflict is what is, indeed, troubling their consceince. Doing "what you think is right" seems pretty meaningless to me, as everyone probably thinks everything they do is right. Drive, on the other hand, seems to imply a much more proactive, stronger emotion that is about what you actively do and achieve rather than how you evaluate and intepret.

contracycle wrote: Hmm, I dunno - that right is lawful does look like a conscience thing to me; this would suggest the character who is doing the "right" thing but which happens to be illegal, and THAT conflict is what is, indeed, troubling their consceince. Doing "what you think is right" seems pretty meaningless to me, as everyone probably thinks everything they do is right. Drive, on the other hand, seems to imply a much more proactive, stronger emotion that is about what you actively do and achieve rather than how you evaluate and intepret.

To me, Concience is what the little angel over my shoulder(not the devil guy) represents. This usually means mercy, helping those who need help etc.

I interpret it as the "goodness" of the character. All but the most cold-hearted of cruel, selfish bastards will have at least one(1) point.

Edit: Hmm, I think I just repeated what Mike just said...

I think my measure for Conscience would be to make sure of a few things. Conscience cannot be defined as pragmatic or self-serving. It needs to be in the service of some higher ideal of how the world should work with clear answers to what is the moral and the good. I would lean towards making a Passion: The Law more than concience, but it could work. Such a character would need to go beyond the letter to the spirit, though. A character like that would stand for Truth, Justice, and the American way, and act like Batman from the 1960s TV show (but without the camp). It would be a sincere belief that the truly moral society is a law abiding one.

Passion: Law, however, allows a bit of obsession to enter in. We see tons of obsessed cops and prosecutors on American TV. Its not that this obsession is against morality, but it doesn't equate to it either.

I agree with Mike that Conscience works best when its the player's intuition. Depending on the player, I would be wary or interested in seeing a Conscience: Bushido or somesuch.

I also politely disagree with Mokkurkalfe saying "All but the most cold-hearted of cruel, selfish bastards will have at least one(1) point." My interpretation of a Spiritual attribute is that you have a passion to the point that it can make you greater than you are. There are tons of good people who 'don't want to get involved.' They wouldn't have SA conscience. There are tons of people in love, but I don't think they all have Passion: Love. Where Mokkurkalfe give the benefit of the doubt to having Conscience, I would give the benefit of the doubt to not having it. Just my interpretation.

Nevermet wrote:

I also politely disagree with Mokkurkalfe saying "All but the most cold-hearted of cruel, selfish bastards will have at least one(1) point." My interpretation of a Spiritual attribute is that you have a passion to the point that it can make you greater than you are. There are tons of good people who 'don't want to get involved.' They wouldn't have SA conscience. There are tons of people in love, but I don't think they all have Passion: Love. Where Mokkurkalfe give the benefit of the doubt to having Conscience, I would give the benefit of the doubt to not having it. Just my interpretation.

I think this is one of those unresolvable debates. However, if you claim that most people have a conscience, but not everyone reacts to it, then is what you're describing as 'conscience' meanigfull? In other words, I do bad things, but feel sorry for it internally; the other guy does the same bad things, and doesn't feel a thing. From an outside perspective, two people just did bad things.

I think the only practical definition of conscience in a story is something which forcefully drives people. We're not just talking about people who avoid doing wrong, but those rare few who are driven to right wrongs.

-Jeff