Here's a little something I've been toying with for a while. I would like to get a little feedback from you all, and as many suggestions as possible.

As this will be my first foray int RPG design, I'm going with a rules system that is already established and proven: WotC's D20 system. Of course, I'll be innovcating it in my own ways, but I was thinking of using the VP/WP mechanic, as opposed to the HP mechanic, and giving penalties based on some sort of "wound level" mechanic.

The setting will be Earth, post nuclear war. Since I know more about North America than any other area in the world, the basic game will be focused in North America. I'll probably release source info for other parts of the world in later installments.

I don't have any plans to include a magic system, although minor psionic powers might (emphasis on the might) make a short appearance.

Of course, there will be a fairly exhaustive list of character classes as well as a large section of equipment (weapons, vehicles, survival gear and such).

I'll update this thread as I have more updates to add. Sinc I don't have a website this will be the main place where I post updates untill I can set one up.

In what way will it be better or different from Aftermath or WotC's own post-apocalyptic RPG (which I've forgotten the name of) which was recently written up in a magazine?

I need to know what aftermath is. And I wasn't even aware that WotC had a similar RPG in a magazine. Where can I find it? As far as how it can be better goes, if it's in a magazine, I don't imagine that the setting etc. are particularly well developed, as a magazine does have space constraints. Still, the magazine might be worth a look. What I propose will have a developed setting and storyline, as well as completely fleshed out character creation and equipment rules etc. And I will probably be modifying the character hit point mechanics to be a little more realistic.

As of yet, I still haven't really put anything concrete down on the computer, so I don't really know exactly how to answer that.....

I did some research using Google, http://www.google.com.

Here's the Fallout RPG site:
http://iamapsycho.com/fallout/

Note that I'm not the author of the Tennessee Sourcebook.

The TSR/WotC RPG is called "Gamma World".

Then there's Darwin's World by Dominic Covey, an advert (a preview is available) is at:
http://www.darwinrpg.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=8

And there's Twilight of the Apocalypse at:
http://members.tripod.com/warduke13/Pages/main3.htm
which is based on FGU's Aftermath.

And here's another I knew nothing about:
http://www.deadearth.com/

I hope that helps!

I have no idea where this will go,
The setting definitly need more expanding,
Im interested though,

- Seamus

Hey!!!!! Thanks Andrew!!!!! I appreciate the help!!!! I've actually played (and completed) all three fallout games, so I know about those. But the other stuff really does help.

Hi Kevin,

I suggest looking over some Indie Design game threads, even back a whole bunch of pages. When someone proposes an idea or beginning design, a lot of the time the questions they get back are more general than they expected.

In this case ...

Why have character classes?
Why is it set in post-apocalyptic America? (or anywhere else)
Why play?

Please don't fire off answers to these questions right away - really, please don't. My reason for asking them is to make a point: that having "setting" and "system" doesn't constitute much reason for designing a role-playing game. I'm interested instead in "what is this game about" at the player-GM level, rather than at the character level. Can you explain a bit more about that for me?

At least one person's (mine) extensive essay on issues surrounding game design can be found in the Forge articles: GNS and related matters of role-playing design. It's not gospel or anything, but a lot of people at the Forge use its vocabulary and ideas to some extent. I'd be interested in your description of the game in these terms.

Best,
Ron

Hey, Ron, thanks for the suggestions. I'm gonna read that essay you suggested as soon as I have the time. I think that my first idea has pretty much tanked, however, due to the fact that such a game already exists (Darwin's World) and from what I've read it seems pretty much in the same vien that I'd had in mind. I really don't want to release a product that's already been done, so I'll be looking for a new idea.

I don't know anything about Darwin's World, but there are lots of different approaches to doing post-apocalyptic settings. Past games that I know of range from the gritty near-future of Twilight:2000 to the goofy far-future mutants of Gamma World. Morrow Project was one that had an interesting background story in which people from our near-future are supplied and put in suspended animation (or something...) and get wakened far in the future long after the apocalyse happened. I think that one was kind of low on the goofy mutant scale. Aftermath had a neat little section on different types of post-apocalyptic settings ranging from low to high goofy mutants. I used the Aftermath game for ideas for a campaign I ran a long time ago, but I never dared tackle the Aftermath rules. An even wider range of possibilities exists in science fiction. A search on the web should turn up some bibliographies. Personally, I'd love to see a game inspired by Steven Boyett's "Ariel" (a coming-of-age story in a world where mythical creatures suddenly appear).

As I said, I don't about Darwin's World, but there may be room for more post-apocalytic games.

The game I'm working on, Unworthy, is also a post-apocalyptic game, but it is quite differant that most PA settings.

The apocalpsye (I can never spell that word) was actually beings from another dimension coming to Earth and 'kidnapping' people without a trace. The people left behind were minors, seniors, handicapped, convicts, insane, etc. Basically any group of people that is considered inferior to the rest.

There are a few aspects of my setting that are differant from the standard PA setting (though I'm sure they've all been done before).

-Everything is still there and in tact, except for the cases in which someone was driving in a car when they disappear. A good example would be The Stand, by Steven King, without all of the bodies.
-Everyone left behind are hard pressed to survive. Children and old people will be hard pressed to survive on there own. Of course there are people left who can survive, but they're either ex-cons or insane, which only increases the risk to the others.
-Spiritual happenings. Without getting into the metaphysics of Unworthy, there a number of 'magical phenomenon' going on. Some people have been reported to have strange powers. Many people have glimpsed strange creatures as well. Remaining dimensional beings stalk the city making it VERY dangerous to enter.

Anyway I don't know why I posted. I really love PA games for some reason.

-Joshua

So, I picked up a copy of Darwin's World today. It's pretty cool, but not precisely the concept I was going for. Still, since D20 now HAS an post apoc. RPG, I guess I can't really make one for that system (and realistically expect it to make money.....) so I'm gonna need to create my own system mechanics. Any suggestions for the process would be greatly appreciated, as the only rules creation I've ever done has been to make house rules for an existing system. I'll update the thread with further info as soon as I come up with it.

kevin671 wrote:
I think that my first idea has pretty much tanked, however, due to the fact that such a game already exists (Darwin's World) and from what I've read it seems pretty much in the same vien that I'd had in mind. I really don't want to release a product that's already been done, so I'll be looking for a new idea.

Actually, I'm currently working on my own rules system (see my thread "Some mechanics I'm toying with......). What I meant was my idea to build it as a D20 game had tanked. I have no desire to compete with an existing game.

As far as the actual game goes, I'm think post-nuclear war, with a serious tone to it. I'm still working out the mechanics of the system, which I want to more or less hammer out before developing the story. I was also considering applying the system to other games, possibly even turning it into a Open Gaming License type of thing.

kevin671 wrote: I was also considering applying the system to other games, possibly even turning it into a Open Gaming License type of thing.

Ferry: It's a different system entirely (or at least it will be) that I'm working on. Sorta pointless to release it under OGL, I mean WotC did intend OGL for thier system.

OGL doesn't cover WOTC exclusively. It's an agreement that OGL-labeled content is free to distribute, as long as the OGL (and possibly designer credit, but I don't think that's covered) travels with it.

D20 is the WOTC-exclusive thing. That means WOTC has control over D20 products. (as an aside, a third-party D20 product is required to have a certain amount of OGL content).

As far as the actual game goes, I'm think post-nuclear war, with a serious tone to it. I'm still working out the mechanics of the system, which I want to more or less hammer out before developing the story.

The system is not divorced from the story. The Story is the "back plot" of the game, the game world history. The reason I want to develop the system first is that once I have the system down, I can develop any number of settings to apply it to.

What kind of play experience do you want to encourage with your system?If you're planning a catch-all system, what would differentiate play in the different settings?

(by the way, I dig me some post-apocalypse gaming, so don't let a couple printed d20 products deter you!)

I have a suggestion for your game. Instead of post-nuke or viral, both of which have been done to death, why not use famine? If a particular gene is added to most of the world's food crops to make them more bountiful, and a disease targets THAT gene ... no food, nearly instantly. After a week, the stores are empty and people start starving in the cities. Farmers may have vegetable crops of their own and so would the die-hard anti GMO folks who likely have traditional seeds. The rest die a slow and painful death over the next few months.

You could still have pockets of radiation where the nuclear powerplants have run until they broke, but there wouldn't be the mass destruction of a post-nuke world. Stuff would still work until it broke and then no one could fix it. I was going to use the idea for myself, but feel free to use it.

The famine idea posted above is very cool. Another idea is a more general environmental catastrophe: Global warming leads to significant changes in the global climate and massive migrations of people. Wars are fought over water resources. There's plenty of literature on this that you could draw from.

Blackguard: I LOVE that idea!!!! Since it's yours, and you have stated the intention to use it, by all means go ahead. You did think of it, after all.

Zak: As far as my system being a "catch all", I was thinking that the main differentiations between game settings will be the modification of some rules and how they interact with the setting......haven't quite figured out precisely how to accomplish this yet.....

Catch-all with modifications is good. Catch-all without modifications tends to lead to a square-peg-round-hole or heres-tons-of-special-rules problem.

System aside, here's the most important question: What play experience
would you like have, both as GM and as Player, when playing your game?

Also, so many endtime possibilities! You may even leave the details of the apocalypse vague, so you can hint at things during play. Make the endtime real mysterious, with legends and weird ruins and such. Everyone who plays will create their own scenario in their head.

Blackguard wrote: I have a suggestion for your game. Instead of post-nuke or viral, both of which have been done to death, why not use famine? If a particular gene is added to most of the world's food crops to make them more bountiful, and a disease targets THAT gene ... no food, nearly instantly. After a week, the stores are empty and people start starving in the cities. Farmers may have vegetable crops of their own and so would the die-hard anti GMO folks who likely have traditional seeds. The rest die a slow and painful death over the next few months.

A idea that I'm toying with: Any of you who watch Anime and have seen a movie called "A Wind Named Amnesia" will probably recognize the setting.

Superior alien beings have triggered the Apocalypse with the intention of studying how humankind will handle it. The ultimate purpose, of course, will be up to the GM to decide (if at all).

Howz that for a freaky premise?

The best part about that premise is that there are definite bad guys. The game sounds like it would ultimately become about discovering what had actually happened, and destroying the aliens.

This would be similar to the very first post-apocalyptic game, Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega (a Dragon atricle from which Gamma World was designed). In that game, the "world" turned out to be a giant space-ship that had lost it's way after drifting through a Strange Radiation Belt (TM). So, presumably, the idea was that eventually the players would discover the nature of their predicament, restore the controls, and then have to decide what to do with their little world.

The problem with such campaigns is trying to establish pacing. Make the big discovery too early, and the game seems like all climax. Delay the discovery too long, and players may loose interest before you get there.

Mike

Sorry to keep pluggin' the Anime, but that sounds kinda like another one, called Megazone 23. The "characters" (a gang of outlaw bikers) live aboard an enormous spaceship (called Megazone 23). Of course, they're unaware of the fact that it's a giant spaceship, but the government is aware. The ship is on a return course to earth, but unfortunately must find a way past an automated superweapon called ADAM (Absolute Destruction of Availible Mass). The protagonists are guided by the ship's hyperintelligent computer (called EVE) to the final conclusion...they escape in lifeboats to repopulate the planet.

Sorry for forgetting to check this thread, but I have to ask again: why not publish it under the OGL? If you check http://www.opengamingfoundation.org, you'll find that hundreds of games have been released under the OGL including boardgames, cardgames and roleplaying games definitely not d20. It's a common misconception.
You'll have a library of rules and OGC (Open Game Content) texts to use in your game.

Fer

I have since slightly changed my mind about allowing anyone to use my system for their own games. What I'm going to do is basically allow people to use the system, but have it so that I control who does (ie: license it). There won't be a licensing fee or any royalties to pay, but I will restrict the number of games released each year with the system, as well as the type of game (so, for example, if I have a project that I'm working on, I won't allow any mirror projects).

Not that I mind people using some of my ideas (for free), but not if them using an idea is going to take money out of my pocket.

Zak Arntson wrote: Catch-all with modifications is good. Catch-all without modifications tends to lead to a square-peg-round-hole or heres-tons-of-special-rules problem.

System aside, here's the most important question: What play experience
would you like have, both as GM and as Player, when playing your game?

Also, so many endtime possibilities! You may even leave the details of the apocalypse vague, so you can hint at things during play. Make the endtime real mysterious, with legends and weird ruins and such. Everyone who plays will create their own scenario in their head.

Kester, you do raise a couple good points. I want to incorporate my little idea about the aliens, though. A little something for players to find out, and possibly foil.