Hi Fang,

I've been considering what I'd like to use for a fairly-Sim genre game (close as I'll ever get anyway). Since I don't want the metagame stuff to be overwhelmingly present, i.e. I want it to creep in only insofar as we want it at the time without too much deliberation, Scattershot seems perfect.

Here's the deal: Cosmic Zap comics, Jim Starlin all the way. Adam Warlock, Thanos, all that freaked-out combo between Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. I know you know what I'm talking about. Silver Surfer prefigured it; Guardians of the Galaxy gave it its deathblow; its final swan song was a few years later with Nexus.

Features of the genre:

1) Pop psychology. Every conflict's a metaphor, every villain represents a troubling power/psychology conundrum, every story is a personal journey. A typical conflict would be the death of the body contrasted with the death of the self contrasted with the heat death of the universe; a typical ending entails the character "resurrected" and it all happened in a baby's dream. Or the mysterious child-of-light defeats Death Himself only to become Death Himself. Or some shit like that.

2) Overwhelming scope. Galaxies, universes, the very fabric of time and space, whole planetary populations in the balance - hell, whole dimensions get brought casually into the story. It makes Star Wars seem piddly and provincial. The villains were outstanding - Dormammu and Galactus to go back to the early versions; Thanos in the Starlin days. These guys were badasses; the Beyonder ten years later was a horrible wimpy worthless echo.

3) Outrageous early 70s fashions and attitudes - the guys all looked like a butch Sean Cassidy with Dorothy Hamill haircuts; the gals all had fishnet stockings and heavy eyelid makeup, and they lounged about in various states of liberated confusion. The guys' outfits were glossy 60s retreads of Silver Age superhero costumes, skin-tight with wide upturned collars and open V-necks, e.g.

4) Battles! Fisticuffs, cosmic blasts, whole swirling panels of starry destruction. It's all mystical-magical and generalized though, nothing like a stupid blaster pistol or energy sword, or even any very well-defined stable of powers like a typical superhero. Superheroics as an expression of moral conviction was as literal as it could possibly get.

Hell, I can't even remember Captain Marvel's powers from this era save for these sparkly wrist-blasts and his ability to fly through space - he was just ... Captain Marvel. ("I am ... Sancho.")

5) Wise-ass hip commentary by an ethnic/alien/both buddy (Rick Jones of course, and I remember a goat-legged troll named Pip in Adam Warlock, and who can forget Judah Maccabee in Nexus).

Fang, like I said, I know you know this stuff. Go!

Best,
Ron

Hi Fang,

Quick clarifiers:

1) Zap Comix, the imprint used by R. Crumb and a few other folks in the late 60s, isn't the same as "Cosmic Zap," which I believe is the term coined by Jim Steranko (or someone) for the type of spacey-whacked superheroes that I'm talking about.

2) I left Dreadstar out because, frankly, I think Starlin was resuscitating a dead medium. That material all felt very forced to me, as well as over-influenced by Star Wars (which admittedly came along and successfully co-opted "space adventure" for what seems like forever).

(As for the Dreadstar/Nexus crossover many years later, by First Comics, ugh! What a piece of crap ...)

So, where's my thread?

Best,
Ron

Oh wait, I forgot.

Central Concept: Cosmic Zap! which I think I've described. Adventures in Space that are perhaps contemporary with here and now (i.e. 1974) but are utterly disconnected from it despite (e.g.) a hero's origin back on Earth or very, very tenuous connection with earthly superheroes. Note well that "adventure" as a term is barely appropriate, as stories' conclusions are often utterly inconclusive in terms of traditional conflicts.

Metaphor: Space as "Space," meaning, personal space, experiential space, arena for discovery; Hero as "chosen one" without a clear mission, who would question it even if he found it. Also, violence within space is inner turmoil - no one "just fights," but rather suffers by fighting, even if he wins.

Motif: Chix as somehow "in tune" with real things and feelings (although they mainly are confused about things like right and wrong), very sexy but also untouchable (based on their confusion); Mentors as very wise but also very sad and (in their agedness) ineffectual, as "times are changing and a new age is upon us"; Villains as powerful metaphysical statements that hammer home the point that Injustice, Death, and Power really do exist without recourse to fairness or idealistic ends; Buddy Commentator as connection to the reader.

Running Gag: the hairstyles and costumes, the hip commentary, the occasional use of self-important captions, the basic realization that comics are not high art despite our feverish efforts to act as if they were.

Best,
Ron

Ron Edwards wrote: So, where's my thread?

Best,
Ron

Okay, sorry about the confusion, I meant the post of the Central Concept/Metaphor/Motif/Running Gag as more of a lexicon to refer to (most would identify Running Gags as just another application of Motif, but I needed narrower descriptions). I planned on taking the point for describing these features. Another thing that was under-emphasized is the fact and need that Genre Expectations have for a single Approach. (This is 'how you want to play' kinda thing, not any analysis of motives or behaviors; Approaches are self-selected by preference or group commitment.) A lot of this stems from ideas you may have about 'what happens during play,' or 'what do you do.' So any examples of that are welcome.

You've given me a lot of information about Cosmic Zap! so far, so I think I can at least get us started. After looking over the examples and suggestions, I think we can start with the Metaphor. A simple, sound Metaphor is often a good starting place to avoid a directionless game. You've actually alluded to two of them and the contrast is very helpful.

In the general mainstream of comic books in this era (a Genre Expectation I've already done some work with), every superhero had both a secret identity and their own personal supervillains. The personal nature of supervillains gives the largest clue to the Metaphor in play; base villains 'attached' to heroes of unassailable virtue is a recipe for the 'inner struggle' between one's good intentions and the darker urges. To make it Freudian, the 'cover' is the ego (hence the central character), the supervillains represent the id, and therefore the hero is the superego. The 'inner struggle' is a classic Metaphor.

One of the things that differentiate Cosmic Zap! from this is exactly the relationship to the villains. If I am reading the sources correctly, these villains are far-flung threats of a caliber and magnitude unseen in the mainstream. Likewise, their posture versus the setting does not tie them exclusively to any single hero. That almost has to cast them in the Metaphorical roles of absolutes; probably even moral or ethical absolutes like evil.

This means that the primary Metaphor is probably the clash between ethics and the real world. The situations you offer ("every story is a personal journey," "violence within space is inner turmoil") suggest that the Metaphor is further limited to such clashes within the individual. Many of the listed characters deal with motivations to be righteous, but find the real-world applications quite hairy; in keeping with the exaggeration inherent in "overwhelming scope; galaxies, universes, the very fabric of time and space, whole planetary populations in the balance," these can escalate to high tragedy.

The "hero as 'chosen one' without a clear mission" is a Motif (not the Metaphor) right in keeping with this for they represent making the decisions between Right and Wrong, and the consequences of the lack of absolutes in actual practice. The " buddy Commentator as connection to the reader" is the classic observer role in stories and wouldn't have a place in a game, except I think it could (because of the "Wise-ass hip commentary by an ethnic/alien/both buddy" comment) handle the ironic comparisons of play with the lives of the players (getting Experience Dice for appropriate humor). You could even consider using them as a 'shared character' because they make little comment on the thematic nature of the game.

Other Motifs include Chix, Mentors, Villains, and Battle. Since Chix are "'in tune' with real things and feelings," "confused about things like right and wrong," and "very sexy but also untouchable," Metaphorically they'd represent concrete and visceral urges (feelings don't matter to ethics, "sexy" is quite visceral and hardly absolute). Mentors therefore represent the cling to one's ideals; "very wise but also very sad," aged and ineffectual, and falling to "times are changing and a new age is upon us," demonstrates the impossibility of applying moral absolutes to concrete situations. Villains are described as "powerful metaphysical statements that hammer home the point that Injustice, Death, and Power;" every moral absolute has its antipode, here the also personify the choice not only between Good and Evil, but between pragmatism (is that the right word?) and moral absolutes.

Finally, the Motif of battle represents the most primitive of solutions, hence no "stupid blaster pistol or energy sword, or even any very well-defined stable of powers." Its very ambiguity suits the nature of the Metaphor; you would use decisive powers to solve the conflict between moral absolutes and concrete applications.

You'll notice an absence of 'place' Motifs; that also elevates things to absolutes of judgment; which reminds me did any characters like The Living Tribunal, Lord Chaos and Master Order, Eternity, or the Elders of the Universe, turn up? All are hallmarks of stories based on moral absolutes.

Well, that's about as far as I can go with what has been presented. What we need to look at now is the 'how the sessions will go,' 'what you want to do' kind of stuff goes. We'll also need to delve into your preference of Approach because these things heavily color what is needed in the presentation of the Genre Expectations. After that we can delve into the specific elements of the game and the direction the Experience Dice usage will take.

Hope I'm on track so far, have a nice weekend!

Fang Langford

Hi Fang,

Nifty - I agree with your breakdown of the secondary-character types very thoroughly, similarly with the inefficacy of plain old Spidey or Avengers type fisticuffs when it comes to solving anything.

As for the "absolutes" kind of characters, like Eternity and so forth - encounters with them tended to be of the sort in which the hero undergoes tremendous travails to achieve an audience with them, and comes away with platitudes like "Seek within yourself" or suchlike. In other words, once a being is that ineffably identified with an absolute or timeless concept, it is similarly ineffably remote in terms of coping with a concrete problem, or even in terms of giving advice regarding direction.

Best,
Ron

Hi Fang,

Here's where I'm thinking about (as you say) 'what happens' during a typical game (as opposed to comic) in a single scene basis.

I think it might go something like this ...

1) The character is three possible "inter-adventure" states: (a) seeking something, as he sees fit; (b) in a funk because he's unable to decide what to seek; or (c) relaxing and enjoying himself, on vacation so to speak.

2) Large matters are revealed to be Afoot - the relationships among villains and female characters and Ineffably Powerful characters (or whoever represents any combination of these three things) are undergoing a big shift. An important point is that these are not necessarily "villainous plots" in the superhero sense.

3) The Hook hits: either he's attacked, or more likely, someone else is in distress and he sympathizes - the point is that at first, all this seems like a distraction or detour regarding #1 above, and he is still pretty much oblivious to #2.

With multiple player-characters, this part represents some path-crossing for the heroes, or at least the potential for doing so.

[To use GNS-essay and related terminology, this style of play is Illusionism bordering on Participationism. The player isn't trying to buck this structure, nor does he have any authority over shaping it.]

4) Hero activity includes several realms of things. (1) Taking sides in or helping organize a solution to a local conflict (e.g. a civil war that's tearing a planetary population apart, or perhaps a "dimensional rift" that's bleeding corruption across a part of the space-time continuum, etc); (2) taking off on a personal journey to contact or confront a very powerful entity of some kind, or perhaps, conversely, to establish human contact with a single person (like trying to see what's troubling his ex-girlfriend);

5) Adversity! Serious adversity! This is key: the hero's whole self-concept must be challenged and thrown into confusion; he cannot be permitted to continue his life with the same-old same-old viewpoint. It can be mild ("H'm! I'm fighting on the wrong side!") or it can be radical ("What? I've never been human? My parents were urns of ancient space-pod consciousnesses?") ("Holy shit! Using my own powers destroys the existence of the past?"). The journey, fight, or whatever of #4 transforms from an adventure/soap opera into a Cosmic Event.

5) Combine comics-style combat with Ditko-style hallucinations with a hell of a lot of pop philosophy ... and generate in a kind of gumbo way a conclusion. The player's task is to struggle through confusion (and kick ass on occasion); the GM's task is to engineer a climax that does not correspond to the hero's preconceptions of what's going on.

Best,
Ron

Ron Edwards wrote: Hi Fang,

Here's the deal: Cosmic Zap comics, Jim Starlin all the way. Adam Warlock, Thanos, all that freaked-out combo between Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. I know you know what I'm talking about. Silver Surfer prefigured it; Guardians of the Galaxy gave it its deathblow; its final swan song was a few years later with Nexus.

Features of the genre:

1) Pop psychology. .

2) Overwhelming scope. Galaxies, universes, the very fabric of time and space, whole planetary populations in the balance -
3) Outrageous early 70s fashions and attitudes -
4) Battles! Fisticuffs, cosmic blasts, whole swirling panels of starry destruction. get.

Hell, I can't even remember Captain Marvel's powers from this era save for these sparkly wrist-blasts and his ability to fly through space - he was just ... Captain Marvel. ("I am ... Sancho.")

5) Wise-ass hip commentary by an ethnic/alien/both buddy (Rick Jones of course, and I remember a goat-legged troll named Pip in Adam Warlock, and who can forget Judah Maccabee in Nexus).

Fang, like I said, I know you know this stuff. Go!

Best,
Ron

Hiya b-,

Ha! Another fan of this stuff. It's funny, people either get it or they don't.

Take a peek at the Scattershot system, as laid out in the threads in this forum. You'll see that it's actually the other way 'round from your proposal. The Sim-ish stuff starts first, and then through the use of a couple of mechanics (mainly reward mechanics), during play itself, play gets "tuned" to whatever tone of Narrativism is desired.

Best,
Ron

Transcendant- These are the entities that exist at the highest metaphysical level, they are the ones that have names that are abstract concepts. They deal with aspects of the universe as a whole, they are essentiall unkillable as long as the universe still exists. They are the creators or co-creators of existence either personalized abstracts of existence as a whole or actual metaphysical gods. Thay can't even kill each other although one aspect may become dominant for a LONG time if it wins a struggle.
Examples: Eternity,Destiny, Death,The Force

Cosmic-This next tier down consists of beings manifest in some lesser aspect of the universe , something that is dependent on the material realm without necessarily being material themselves. these being are mostly unkillable but it would be possible to do so if you destroyed the entire substrate they were based on (Dr. Strange's 'Nightmare' could only be killed if you wiped out all the dreaming sentients in the entire universe.) Sometimes beings on this level are masters of an entire small universe of their own and have godlike powers within their own domain. Sometimes they are the agents of the Transcendant beings.

Examples: Nightmare,Mephisto, The Dread Dormammu,Gaia

Enlightened- Many of the beings at this level have their origin as mortal or at least evolved there from species that were mortal. They have achieved the pinnacle of evolution that mortal beings are capable of by their own efforts and have powers that and compete with all the superheroes of an entire planet or hold its fate in their hands. They are eminently killable ,but only by power levels comparable to their own. They are localised generally have some kind of 'physical' body.

Examples: Guardians of the Galaxy,The Living Tribunal,Galactus

Mortal- These are distinctly mortal beings, they can die, their thought processes are understandable by lesser beings. They almost always have physical bodies, and although their powers are immense ,they are tormented by many of the frailties of normal beings. The most powerful superheroes in the world fall into this category as well as the 'category leaders' (i.e. sorcerer supreme). The scale for this level goes all the way down to normal people, Indeed many of them started out that way.
Examples: Silver Surfer,The Spectre,Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate,Adam Warlock

Most of this type of story operates on the 'horshoe nail' prinicipal. Upper teir powers thumb wrestle for a couple trillion years and suddenly the situation develops where thing are in some state of critical balance where a tiny (on their scale) action can tip things over. Usually its the lower teir power either because when upper teir powers try to intervene directly it messes too much up, or it violates some rule of engagement.

Example-The universe is invaded by the Nightmare continuum ,a hierarchy of cosmic ghouls and goblins which add up to a powerful cosmic level force. The Continuum are the loosers in some catyclysmic battle between Transcendants in another dimesion which laid it waste. After a massive war with the local cosmics who fail to expel them, the Transcendants, in a rare display if direct intervention contain the Continuum in the Nightmare galaxy locked with the Apocalypse key, which they hid under the cosmic equivalent of a doormat. However the Transcendants missed one agent of the continuum, and Enlightened level being who would become known in interstellar legend as The Black Seeker. The Seeker has been looking for the key for millenia and has found it, and now has to get back to the Nightmare galaxy to release the continuum. Naturally its up to the players to find the Seeker and Get the Key before this can happen.

Yeah, what he said. This is a nice breakdown of some of the Motifs.

However, I think my points about how these stories become internal, as a primary goal, are worth reviewing. "Stop the Black Seeker" is bluntly boring after the first two minutes - what matters is when we find that he is actually the Nightmare Continuum version of our hero himself, and thus seeking and confronting the Seeker really means coming to terms with "nightmare" as an essential feature of one's own psyche ... and it turns out that Ramona, the hero's hip-hugger-wearing girlfriend, is irresistibly attracted to the Seeker ...

Best,
Ron

You missed a couple of levels, IMO B, if you are emulating Marvel.

- Gods - actually below the enlightened level of power, but definitely above mortals. This includes all the pantheons, and wierdos like the Immortals (I think that's what they are called; the guys on the dark side of the moon?). BTW, I place Dread Dormamu, and all sorcerer-supremes at about this level in their home dimension. I'd put Gaia and Sol at the upper end of this category. I see this as likley the highest level for starting PCs (c'mon, Thor is a PC, right?) What sets these characters apart is that they are truley Immortal being linked to some god plane (remember when Hercules got atomized, and spent a long time reforming?). Higher up gods like Odin are out as PCs, however.


- I tend to conflate your Cosmic and and Enlightened levels. I can see them being different thematically, but powerwise, they cross over a lot. Galactus could eat a lot of the cosmic ones for lunch and never skip a beat. He lived through the last big-bang, fer heavens sake.


There is another even higher level of power than those which you mention, a level of power of which we can't really concieve:

- Beyond - This is the level of the cosimc cubes, which, when they become imperfect, start actually doing things. The Beyonder, Shaper of Worlds, and the one that was just refered to as the Cosmic Cube, etc. This is important thematically because you want to have somebody who you can point to as the most powerful.


Also, if you want to get really technical, I see a level between the mortals and the gods, as well. Call it:

- Unearthly - creatures who are more or less mortal, but live in space or come from elsewhere, and are therefore a bit badder than Earth heroes and villains. I'd put the surfer and all the heralds of Galactus here along with Terminus, and the Super-Scrull, etc. Maybe Thanos, though he might be considered at the god level at times. Even the Hulk gets into this class because of his demonic heritage.

A guy like Terminus can really ruin a regular mortal hero's day. Or planet.


I could also point to the fact that there is a level above the mutant lowlifes that is still below Unearthly but I think that level is the lowest this game is supposed to go (heroes like mutants, and spiderman are just too low level), and as such the mortal category should cover these guys.

Mike

Ron Edwards wrote: Yeah, what he said. This is a nice breakdown of some of the Motifs.

However, I think my points about how these stories become internal, as a primary goal, are worth reviewing. "Stop the Black Seeker" is bluntly boring after the first two minutes - what matters is when we find that he is actually the Nightmare Continuum version of our hero himself, and thus seeking and confronting the Seeker really means coming to terms with "nightmare" as an essential feature of one's own psyche ... and it turns out that Ramona, the hero's hip-hugger-wearing girlfriend, is irresistibly attracted to the Seeker ...

Whew. These Genre Expectations are really chewing up a lot of time (like I didn't expect that). As such, I believe the quality of my writing may suffer, but 'on with the fight!' (Apologies where I am not clear.)

Approach

Ron Edwards wrote: 6) Combine comics-style combat with Ditko-style hallucinations with a hell of a lot of pop philosophy ... and generate in a kind of gumbo way a conclusion. The player's task is to struggle through confusion (and kick ass on occasion); the GM's task is to engineer a climax that does not [necessarily] correspond to the hero's preconceptions of what's going on.

...To use GNS-essay and related terminology, this style of play is Illusionism bordering on Participationism. The player isn't trying to buck this structure, nor does he have any authority over shaping it.

Ron Edwards wrote: Serious adversity! This is key: the hero's whole self-concept must be challenged and thrown into confusion; he cannot be permitted to continue his life with the same-old, same-old viewpoint. It can be mild or it can be radical. The journey, fight, or [action] transforms from an adventure/soap opera into a Cosmic Event.

Given what Ron wrote: As for the "absolutes" kind of characters, like Eternity and so forth - encounters with them tended to be of the sort in which the hero undergoes tremendous travails to achieve an audience with them, and comes away with platitudes like "Seek within yourself" or suchlike. In other words, once a being is that ineffably identified with an absolute or timeless concept, it is similarly ineffably remote in terms of coping with a concrete problem, or even in terms of giving advice regarding direction.

Hi Fang,

I agree with you about the Mystique element, as well as with the players' relatively passive role when it comes to authoring the Story. All that meshes well with my desired role in playing such a game (and believe me, this is something for which I'd rather be a player than a GM).

I'm not sure what you mean by archetypes in building the player-characters. To a very great extent, I hate the idea of classifying superheroes, and that applies as well to the semi-ish superheroes of this kind of setting/context. Can you give me an example?

Or rather, let me give you one. The guy's name is Dylan "Shock" Selkins; he's a biker and a roustin' tough bastard, think McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But hey, way back before the comics series started, he hooked up with this cool mysterious chick, and she turned out to be the spirit of this Whole Other Planet, man, called Keela, and "Shock" ended up being named as her Mate, and therefore the God of the planet's solar system. I mean, wild! Now they call him [insert Kirby-esque Kosmic cheese here].

But that wasn't the half of it. In space, you see, there are these zones that no one likes to talk about, and from them issue forth all sorts of badness - and can you believe it, all these solar gods all over the place, they're total pussies - they just let the badness make the suns go nova and mess up the systems, and pretend the only solution is to hope it doesn't happen to you! Well, it's time someone like "Shock" showed them what being the Solar God is all about.

I would much prefer to let character creation precede in this sort of vein rather than have a list of potential "character types" to choose from. To a very great extent, this genre doesn't work unless the participants already get it, so I don't see much point to the character creation system being a teaching device.

Best,
Ron

Hey Ron,

Right on! You know, but it you don't show it.

Ron Edwards wrote: I agree with you about the Mystique element, as well as with the players' relatively passive role when it comes to authoring the Story. All that meshes well with my desired role in playing such a game (and believe me, this is something for which I'd rather be a player than a GM).

Ron Edwards wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by archetypes in building the player-characters. To a very great extent, I hate the idea of classifying superheroes, and that applies as well to the semi-ish superheroes of this kind of setting/context. Can you give me an example?

Or rather, let me give you one. The guy's name is Dylan "Shock" Selkins; he's a biker and a roustin' tough bastard, think McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But hey, way back before the comics series started, he hooked up with this cool mysterious chick, and she turned out to be the spirit of this Whole Other Planet, man, called Keela, and "Shock" ended up being named as her Mate, and therefore the God of the planet's solar system. I mean, wild! Now they call him [insert Kirby-esque Kosmic cheese here].

But that wasn't the half of it. In space, you see, there are these zones that no one likes to talk about, and from them issue forth all sorts of badness - and can you believe it, all these solar gods all over the place, they're total pussies - they just let the badness make the suns go nova and mess up the systems, and pretend the only solution is to hope it doesn't happen to you! Well, it's time someone like "Shock" showed them what being the Solar God is all about.

I would much prefer to let character creation precede in this sort of vein rather than have a list of potential "character types" to choose from. To a very great extent, this genre doesn't work unless the participants already get it, so I don't see much point to the character creation system being a teaching device.

Hi Fang,

Your Precipitating Events are actually more parallel to Sorcerer's Kickers, not Bangs per se. Kickers are written by players as part of character creation; all Sorcerer play is considered indirectly to drive toward resolving Kickers. Bangs are GM-generated (on occasion via suggestions) and occur in-play.

I agree that the guy that I described does not include a Precipitating Event, although coming up with one is easy as pie. I would rather discuss this "archetype" thing. I do not see "biker" as an archetype. I see it as merely a descriptor - a loaded, juicy, fascinating one, yes, and right in line with Genre Expectations, but I don't see a need for a special term beyond "character concept that's consistent with Genre Expectations."

Best,
Ron

P.S. Don't you worry about who's going to GM. I'll bring a sheaf of Scattershot stuff to the group, we'll chat it up, and someone will.

Ron Edwards wrote: Your Precipitating Events are actually more parallel to Sorcerer's Kickers,

Sorry I'm coming in late.

I don't know if you guys are looking at this thing as a one-shot game deal, done between yourselves for fun, or if you're doing this with an eye for releasing it on an unsuspecting gaming public. If you are, you're going to have to do a hell of a lot of explanation to help the audience get it.

To me, at any rate, it sounds like you're talking about what I refer to as "psychedelic runoff comix," the type where linear plot doesn't matter, specific power types don't really matter, character motivations and quirks take center stage, and to balance that, the dilemma is always world-shaking and dealing with Big Concepts that Ron already correctly pointed out as mirroring the conflict within the character. I always suspected that they were the mainstream comics' initial reaction against the underground comics, in an attempt to show that, "Yes we can do serious comics about Big Issues!"

This also sounds to me like the movie "Wizards," where the big sorcerous duel is cut short by the main good guy shooting his brother with a gun put up his sleeve. Or some of the stories in "Heavy Metal." Or Grant Morrison's The Invisibles or The Hand. It's something that has the narrative quality of a fever dream or a Phillip K. Dick novel.

Could you be looking at a way to play "The Psychofiction RPG," that holy grail of roleplayers everywhere since Over the Edge debuted? Something that would allow people to actually reproduce all of those late 70s animated sci-fi/post-apocalypse/sword&sorcerer genre mishmash films, as well as all those Grant Morrison-type comics and William S. Burroughs novels? Oh, happy day! And I wish you all the luck in the world...

To be honest, I'd only attempt something like that, or even your more specific genre, with octaNe's core rules or Universalis, where you and your players have the option of sliding back up and down the categories of power you've previously delineated, so as to include the players as well as the poor, soon-to-be-overworked-to-the-point-of-head-explosion Game Moderator. Otherwise, you've got to find a way for everyone to be involved (even indirectly) in a scene, or "hand the baton" to a character for the evening and co-opt the players into being co-GMs to help with the NPCs, plot twists, and setting changes. Asking one GM to be prepared for the inevitable weirdness and plot twists and tangents otherwise is going to be ugly!

In the interest in showing that I CAN do more gripe about the State of Gaming I will now perform some thread necromancy of my own and reveal some thoughts I have had for the base functional system for the sim component of COSMIC ZAP!.
There are a number issues that I regard as paramount in my choices:

1. Rules Lite. I am sick of big honking systems. I want COSMIC ZAP! stripped for action. I also want to promote short intense sessions and simple systems promote that.

2. Flexible. The system needs to accomodate a wide range of power levels some of them described very abstractly. It also needs to be able to deal creatively with a broad range of powers and abilities without violating consideration 1.

3.Extensible. Needs to accomadate the ability to create new stuff for the game's universe without breaking or becoming compicated.

Lila Rpg http://www.lilarpg.0catch.com/

The cosmology of the Hindus is one of the most elaborate and colorful ever worshiped,filled with an infinite array of Heros ,Demons,Gods,Demigods,plots, battles,magic powers and enough philosophising and pontificating to.., ...well, .....base an entire religion on.....
A member of the International Society of Krishna Conciousness has decided to set it all to a roleplaying game. Lila is an rpg that was primarily designed as a teaching tool for Krishna kids, and had to deal with a broad range of things so simplicity and flexibility was important to them.
The chose the Window, a popular netsystem probably famililiar to most on the forge already. But the author of Lila chopped and channeled the basic Window system to accomdate the concepts and terminology of the Hindu universe. Lila deals with personality traits and qualities as well as personal transcendance and evolution all concerns of COSMIC ZAP! and characters don't get stranger or more psychedelic than those in the Hindu mythos...

Power Game
http://www.uta.fi/~trmika/gameindex.html
Power game is another candidate, Have included it primarily because it's simple, has a broad scale it has a long history (its up to version SIX!)

Hearts and Souls
From right here on the Forge is the game "Hearts and Souls" it is a superhero game with a highly flexible, mostly narrativist power system and The game is strongly driven by the internal states of it's heroes.

Janus Rpg
http://www.ironfort.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JanusCharGen
The Janus Rpg is interesting in that it is based in the Nobilis system. Nobilis is a much commented upon system that deals with godlike beings on the same scale range as COSMIC ZAP!. Indeed nobilis seems wo well adapted to the task that I would imagine it could be used with very little modification of the actual system.

Well those are the systems I like. Any comments on these choices are of course welcome...I hope they will be controversial....

Hi there,

Spooky, this whole thing is just for my own gaming fun, and my group's, using Scattershot. The thread is an exercise for Fang in terms of how to explain/apply his system for real live human being he doesn't game with, and for me in terms of seeing how "baked" Scattershot is these days. Pleasing anyone else, particularly those who aren't familiar with the source material, is completely irrelevant.

I'll toss you a thought-experiment, though. You get it; I can tell by the references you provided. So why are you convinced that other people won't? I encourage you to put aside your image of the "typical gamer" who doesn't get things like this, or, since people do exist who conform to this profile, to put aside any attention or interest in meeting their needs. There are lots of people out there who, like you, grasp this material quickly and enthusiastically. Those are the only ones that Fang, you, and me need to worry about on this thread.

Best,
Ron

Hearts and Souls
From right here on the Forge is the game "Hearts and Souls" it is a superhero game with a highly flexible, mostly narrativist power system and The game is strongly driven by the internal states of it's heroes.

Okay , based on my entry for the essentially defunct universalis site mascot contest, here's my idea for a cover for CZ! ,essentially showing a typical character from the game.

Thy the way I am interested in the subject of copy for the cover and back. Like what I have so far?


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/b_bankhead/lst?.dir=/Other+Art&.view=t

Spooky,

Sidhain is making Heart and Souls...
There is a Yahoo Group related to it
HSSHRPG

as far as I know that is the only place it is available... or I lost my webpage bookmark...

Bob McNamee

To both of those individuals who gave me the Yahoo group for Hearts and souls: thank you! Now let's see what this game has to offer in the terms of Cosmic Zap!, as well as just trying out the game itself....

As for Scattershot: So far, with all of the info scattered around the forum on the game, my little brain is having difficulty digesting it, although I think I understand pieces of it.