Topic: Conspiracy Theory Games
Started by: James V. West
Started on: 10/6/2002
Board: Indie Game Design
On 10/6/2002 at 2:36am, James V. West wrote:
Conspiracy Theory Games
Hey
A friend of mine is working on an idea for a conspiracy theory rpg and I wanted to do some digging for him. This post is a simple request for info...
I'm not very familiar with the genre (aside from seasons 1-3 of X-Files--natch) so I don't know many of the games. I'm aware of the old Paranoia game from West End but that's just about it.
What other games of this sort are out there, especially indie games? Government cover-ups, aliens among us, etc..
On 10/6/2002 at 4:11am, C. Edwards wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
I would suggest reading the Illuminatus trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea.
The only games I've played concerning conspiracies were more horror than conspiracy (Chill and CoC).
-Chris
On 10/6/2002 at 7:02am, Andrew Martin wrote:
Re: Conspiracy Theory Games
James V. West wrote: What other games of this sort are out there, especially indie games? Government cover-ups, aliens among us, etc..
There's Men in Black RPG by West End Games. Basically the PCs go around hushing things up like the MiB do.
I think there's an X-Files RPG on the net somewhere?
On 10/6/2002 at 11:34am, morien wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Following the hype around X-Files a bunch of conspiracy games were released during the nineties.
The pioneer was certainley Over the Edge which suits the most the indie feeling you're looking for. I remember also Project Twilight for WoD, Conspiracy X by Eden Studio (look for the Subrosa supplement which is meant to help you build your conspiracy). Delta Green by Pagan Publishing is also worthy as an example of smart relooking of Chthulhu Mythos. This one is designed as a complete toolbox for gamemasters and should be viewed as an achievement in sourcebook design.
I am sure that we could unearth some oddities like 23rd Letter (don't remember the publisher) and a game with a Tabloid feel, but I don't remember the title...
I also strongly recommend the Supressed Transmission "weekly" stuff written by Kenneth Hite in Pyramid Online. If you're not a subscriber, you could find two sort of "Best of" collecting some articles published by SJGames under the titles "Supressed Broadcast - First transmission" and "Second Transmission". These columns are real gold mines. I swear...
I hope this will help you narrowing your search...
Regards.
On 10/6/2002 at 2:41pm, Jonathan Walton wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
More games with conspiracy elements:
Unknown Armies -- the occult underground and the global conspiracy of those who know if its existence. An amazing piece of work.
Nightbane -- supernatural creatures from a dark mirror-image earth secretly take over the world's governments and have to be stopped by nightmarish shapeshifting beings. No lie. Great game concept, but it uses the Palladium system, which sucks. An early C. J. Carella (WitchCraft, Conspiracy X) work.
I'm sure there's more that I'm not thinking of at the moment...
Later.
Jonathan
On 10/6/2002 at 2:53pm, James V. West wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Thanks for all the replies.
What about games founded in real-world conspiracy mythology, not based on invented conspiracies? You know, stuff that the CIA would shoot you over.
On 10/6/2002 at 6:57pm, DaR wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
James V. West wrote: Thanks for all the replies.
What about games founded in real-world conspiracy mythology, not based on invented conspiracies? You know, stuff that the CIA would shoot you over.
The first edition of Greg Porter's CORPS was about as close as I've seen. It had a bit of Illuminati/X-Files style weirdness, but by and large it was a fairly low-key modern conspiracy oriented game, matched to a fairly nice system, in my opinion.
-DaR
On 10/6/2002 at 7:16pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Dark Conspiracy for a very "out there" sort of conspiracy. A favorite setting of mine. Covers the standard consiracy theory stuff, but the answers are more disturbing than anyone would think. I believe that Conspiracy X would have the most sane stuff. Still, most RPGs I think take the view that as long as we're allowing for conspiracy theory to be true, then why not have the truth be something prett far out. As in Delta Green wherin all the conspiracies have the Cthulhu Mythos behind them.
So what I'm saying is, there probably isn't a game that covers Conspiracy that has a completely "normal" (non-alien, non-paranormal, non-magic, just people doing things in secret) explanation for all the theories. And I can't think of an Indie game that's got any of this covered at all...
OTOH, there's always GURPS Illuminati.
Mike
On 10/6/2002 at 7:25pm, James V. West wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Hey Mike
Actually, the alien stuff is fine since there really is a real-world alien conspiracy mythology. See what I mean? I was just wondering if there were any games out there that really tackled the exact same material that real life consiracy theorists deal with.
On 10/6/2002 at 7:51pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
James V. West wrote: Actually, the alien stuff is fine since there really is a real-world alien conspiracy mythology. See what I mean? I was just wondering if there were any games out there that really tackled the exact same material that real life consiracy theorists deal with.
Well....who counts as a Real Life conspiracy theorist. I'd say that most conspiracy theory is just hooey made up by people with nothing better to do with their time. I mean as soon as anyone specualtes that aliens had anything to do with the assassination of JFK, I'm going to assume that they're nuts or just playing.
My point is, what do you consider to be "RL conspiracy theory mythology", and what's not. I can guarantee you that for every theory that's in a game like Delta Green, there's probably some whacko somewhere who thinks that the RPG is just a smokescreen to put people off the fact that the Mythos beings really do exist and are doing stuff like th ebook says (though not exactly, remember it's a smokescreen).
My point is that conspiracy theory is paranoid delusion. The majority of people out there who discuss the grays don't really believe in them, but are just playing along because it's fun (I know way too much conspiracy theory from playing INWO and being a gamer, and I love the stuff; but I don't believe a word of it for a minute). The people who actually do believe in such stuff are either deranged, or dupes of the deranged. As such, it's going to be hard to say where the RW cospiracy theory stops and the other sort (fantastic?) ends.
For example, IMO, no theory that regards aliens (or any sort of otherworldly beings), magic, ESP or other paranormal abilities are all just delusions. While somebody did kill JFK, and there are some oddities with the case that may make it more than what it seems. Still, I'd say that the "known facts" of the case are still the most likely. Specualtion on who may have done it besides LHO, are IMO "Real" conspiracy theory.
But I'm sure that for others the "evidence" of aliens is too much to ignore making that a Real theory. And there is some guy somewhere who is cramped in a dank basement looking out for the Fungi from Yuggoth.
So when you mean "real life conspiracy theory" you'll have to understand that we might get confused as to what counts. Is there some critical mass in terms of websites or number of people that have to be considering the issue before it counts?
Then there's the argument of extension. Dark Conspiracy seems to fall under your RL theory umbrella because
>Spoiler alert<
it's mostly about ailens. But then we find out that the aliens are controlled by demons from a gate near Jupiter. Perhaps the "RL" aliens could be controlled by such metaphysical beings. How would we know?
>End Spoiler Alert<
So given that it does not follow the current "canon" for aliens, does DC count as a resource? Or not? I assume that you are aware that a lot of what occurs in modern Mythology is the result of things like games and movies. For example, half of what people think about Vampires was invented by Universal Studios in the 1930's. Yet, interestingly, people who believe in vampires will often say that said facts are true of vampires (perhpaps the Universal execs knew something and were subtly revealing it to the world through a series of movies?). I'd hazard a guess and say that some of todays conspiracy theory mythology was in fact invented by RPGs. I woudn't be at all surprised to hear that Chris Carter had played the original Illuminati card game.
Better to just let us know what "counts" for the game in question and we can just refer to that when refering to resources.
Mike
P.S. look out for the ChemTrails.
On 10/6/2002 at 8:15pm, James V. West wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
If this is all true, Mike, then why do I wake up in strange places with these painful burns and marks on my body? Why do I get scared when I see bright lights? How come I'm constantly missing time?
Explain it!!
I've read Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World and I know he was in point of fact *paid* by a secret government organization to discredit those who really do know what's going on. This secret organization acts like a virus, moving from one government agency to another, hiding from prying eyes. They're watching you, Mike Holmes. So you better just open your eyes and get real, my friend.
When you start peeing little pellets that set grocery store scanners haywire, don't come cryin' to me!!
On 10/6/2002 at 9:34pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Well, I never said I had all the answers...
Ever noticed the barcodes on the back of interstate highway signs?
Mike
On 10/7/2002 at 1:28am, Mike Hall wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
Hello all...I'm Mike Hall, the guy James posted this thread for.
My definition of "real" conspiracy theory is as follows: conspiracy folklore that stems from research and speculation by dedicated real-world kooks, who sincerely believe what they think they've uncovered. If you think for a minute these people don't believe what they preach, you've never met 'em. They're all nutcases. Sure, there are "joiners," but there are some serious crazies.
I've been researching this stuff for years. I don't buy ANY of it, but it fascinates me, much like ancient mythology, urban legends, and tall tales of the American West. I just love folklore, even the fringe folklore. So before you go around saying conspiriologists are deranged, remember that an interest in folklore doesn't make you a believer.
My game is going to be based on theories drifting around in the actual fringe culture, not a bucnh of home brew stuff, X-Files knockoff, or Lovecraft tie-in.
Anyhow, I think this thread has told me what I needed to know, so thanks, everybody!
On 10/7/2002 at 7:52am, contracycle wrote:
RE: Conspiracy Theory Games
James V. West wrote: Actually, the alien stuff is fine since there really is a real-world alien conspiracy mythology. See what I mean? I was just wondering if there were any games out there that really tackled the exact same material that real life consiracy theorists deal with.
For my money, Con-X is mindblowing in this regard. It takes almost all of the "ufo conspiracy" phenomenology and constructs a plausible synthetic setting whioch accomodates them all. So frex it does cover the asssination of JFK - the "magic bullet" behaved as oddly as it did becuase there were several telekinetics in the crowd backing up the shooter. You will discover who blew up the Challenger, why alien abductions happen, whats going on in the Bermuda triangle, the origins and significance of Bigfoot, what happened to Atlantis, what the Nordics want etc etc etc. And thats not including the explanation for ritual magic and PK etc. Con-X is IMO a stunning bit of work which laces together the incredibly disparate elements of the real-world alien conspiracy genre, and is one of my favourite games. And IMO the systems rocks, but clearly is not to everyones taste.
On 10/7/2002 at 8:36am, simon_hibbs wrote:
RE: Re: Conspiracy Theory Games
James V. West wrote: What other games of this sort are out there, especially indie games? Government cover-ups, aliens among us, etc..
Steve Jackson games (www.sjgames.com) have a pretty extensive selection of conspiracy theory related supplements for GURPS, in fact it's a major theme with them right down to their illuminated pyramid company logo :
GURPS Black Ops - Super-skilled secret agents battling evil/weird conspiracies.
GURPS Illuminati - Inspired by the Illuminatus Trilogy, and related works
GURPS Warehouse 23 - Weird artifacts and the secret warehouse where the government, or whoever's behind them, keeps them under wraps.
GURPS IOU - Illuminati University roleplaying - mostly just comical.
GURPS Prisoner - Sourcebook for the cult 60s british TV series.
Plenty of other GURPS books include conspiracy theory references or crossover notes, including GURPS Cabal (occult conspiracies), GURPS Time Travel and others.
Simon Hibbs
On 10/15/2002 at 8:43pm, rumble wrote:
Reality Cheque's Control RPG
If you're still reading this thread, you can't do much better than a game called Control.
Sounds like you've already got the primary theme of your game solidified, so all you really need is an engine that emphasizes conspiracy theories.
I have a copy, but I'm pretty sure it's out of print. I've never seen it for sale ANYWHERE except online, briefly, which is where I bought it.
Essentially, characters are motivated by one of the seven sins, and have a about a dozen traits that describe them. There's very little setting information provided, but there's a mechanism by which players can attempt to wrest GM control from the current GM, thereby imposing their own interpretation of events into a conspiracy.
Makes for VERY convoluted plotting and counterplotting as different players literally "take over" GM-ing and try to make their conspiracy/conspiracy effects dominant.
If there's any interest, I'll post some more details on the game.